I thought I would post this to the list. These are the descendants of Hartmann Herche that found their way to Vanderburgh, Indiana. Generation No. 1 1. HARTMANN5 HERCHE (CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born March 20, 1711 in Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen, and died May 02, 1775 in Mottgers, Hessen1. He married CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT1 February 16, 17411, daughter of KILIAN AILGET and MARGARETHA BAUS. She was born March 31, 1711 in Schwarzenfels, Hessen1, and died January 04, 1784 in Mottgers, Hessen1. More About HARTMANN HERCHE and CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT: Marriage: February 16, 17411 Children of HARTMANN HERCHE and CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT are: 2. i. HEINRICH6 HERCHE, b. June 03, 1742, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau; d. January 12, 1819. 3. ii. ANNA MARIA HERCHE, b. August 01, 1745, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau. iii. HARTMAN HERCHE1, b. October 06, 1748, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1. Generation No. 2 2. HEINRICH6 HERCHE (HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born June 03, 1742 in Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1, and died January 12, 18191. He married ANNA ELIZABETHA WIRTH1 in Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. She was born May 05, 17421. More About HEINRICH HERCHE and ANNA WIRTH: Marriage: Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1 Children of HEINRICH HERCHE and ANNA WIRTH are: i. ADAM7 HERCHE1, b. April 03, 1768, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. ii. HELENA HERCHE1, b. September 07, 1769, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. iii. JOHANNES HERCHE1, b. May 16, 1774, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. 4. iv. ANNA MARTHA HERCHE, b. September 21, 1776, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau; d. August 01, 1838, Altengronau, Hessen. v. CONRAD HERCHE1, b. February 07, 1779, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. vi. JOHANNES HERCHE1, b. December 10, 1781, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. vii. ANNA ELISABETHA HERCHE1, b. May 28, 1788, Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1. 3. ANNA MARIA6 HERCHE (HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born August 01, 1745 in Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1. She married CONRAD HOELTZER1 June 25, 1767 in Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1. More About CONRAD HOELTZER and ANNA HERCHE: Marriage: June 25, 1767, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1 Children of ANNA HERCHE and CONRAD HOELTZER are: i. WILHELM7 HOELTZER1, b. Abt. August 17701. More About WILHELM HOELTZER: Fact 1: August 29, 1770, Christened1 ii. LOUISA HOELTZER1, b. Abt. 17731. More About LOUISA HOELTZER: Fact 1: July 15, 1773, Christened1 Fact 2: Schwarzenfells, Hessen - Nassau1 Fact 3: mother named Maria Herchert1 iii. CATHARINA HOELTZER1, b. Abt. 17751. More About CATHARINA HOELTZER: Fact 1: September 27, 1775, Christened1 Fact 2: mother Maria Herch1 iv. ANNA HOELTZER1, b. Abt. 1778, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1. More About ANNA HOELTZER: Fact 1: August 01, 1778, Christened1 v. JOHANN GEORGE HOELTZER1, b. Abt. 17781. More About JOHANN GEORGE HOELTZER: Fact 1: August 01, 1788, Christened1 vi. JOHANNES HOELTZER1, b. Abt. 17811. More About JOHANNES HOELTZER: Fact 1: April 09, 1781, Christened1 vii. MELCHIOR HOELTZER1, b. May 11, 1783, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1. viii. ELISABETH HOELTZER1, b. September 18, 1785, Mottgers, Hessen - Nassau1. More About ELISABETH HOELTZER: Fact 1: Mother named as Anna Maria Herch1 Generation No. 3 4. ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE (HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born September 21, 1776 in Altengronau, Hessen - Nassau1, and died August 01, 1838 in Altengronau, Hessen1. She married KARL FRIEDRICH ROEDER1 December 16, 1802 in Altengronau, Hessen1, son of JOHANNES ROEDER and ANNA KILLMER. He was born November 27, 1779 in Altengronau, Hessen1, and died December 20, 1859 in Altengronau, Hessen1. More About KARL ROEDER and ANNA HERCHE: Marriage: December 16, 1802, Altengronau, Hessen1 Child of ANNA HERCHE and KARL ROEDER is: 5. i. ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, b. February 11, 1806, Altengronau, Hessen; d. March 07, 1891, Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana. Generation No. 4 5. ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER (ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born February 11, 1806 in Altengronau, Hessen1, and died March 07, 1891 in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1. She married JOHANN GEORG HUFNAGEL1 November 13, 1831 in Altengronau, Hessen1, son of CARL HUFNAGEL and ANNA SCHNARR. He was born November 20, 1805 in Altengronau, Hessen1, and died Abt. 1848 in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1. More About ANNA ELISABETH ROEDER: Fact 1: February 11, 1806, Christened1 Sources of information: 1840,50,60,70,80 U.S. Census, Perry and Union Twp., Vanderburg Co. birth, marriage and death records. Death cert. of Elizabeth Hufnagel DREIER, naming parents. Dept. of Vital Stat., Indianapolis, Indiana. Civil War pension rec. of Hermann DREIER naming wife Elizabeth HUFNAGEL. History OF Vanderburg Co., Indiana, l889. Evansville Directory, 1911. Records of Indiana State Lib. 140 No. Senate, Indianapolis, Indiana and Vanderburg Co. courthouse, orig. records researched 1967. Parish reg. of Neuengronau, Hessen-N, Prussia. http://istg.rootsweb.com/1800/saxonia18670517.html Steamer Saxonia DISTRICT OF NEW YORK - PORT OF NEW YORK I, P. H. Hanck, master of the Str Saxonia, do solemnly, sincerely, and truly swear that the following List or Manifest, subscribed by me, and now delivered by me to the Collector of the Customs of the Collection District of New York, is a full and perfect list of all the passengers taken on board of the said Steamer at Hamburg from which Port said Steamer has now arrived; and that on said list is truly designated the age, the sex, and the occupation of each of said passengers, the part of the vessel occupied by each during the passage, the country to which each belongs, and also the country of which it is intended by each to become an inhabitant; and that said List or Manifest truly sets forth the number of said passengers who have died on said voyage, and the names and ages of those who died. So help me God. (signed) P. H. Hanck. Sworn to this 17 May, 1867 before me ???????? (signature illegible) List or Manifest of all the Passengers taken on board the Steamer Saxonia, whereof P. H. Hanck is master, from Hamburg burthen * tons. Columns represent: Passenger Number, Name, Age, Sex, Occupation, Country to which they severally belong. 766 Paul Hufnagel 36 M workman Germany 767 Barba Hufnagel 26 F his wife Germany 768 Georg Hufnagel 75 M his father Germany 769 Carl Hufnagel 7 M his child Germany 770 Danuan Hufnagel 4 M his child Germany 771 Alvis Hufnagel 6m M his baby Germany : Schiffsliste Nr. 33 der Bremer Brig ULYSSES vom 26. Juli 1837 http://www.gerhardhufnagel.mynetcologne.de/hufnagel/galerie/hg_schiffsliste.htm More About JOHANN GEORG HUFNAGEL: Immigration: 19371 More About JOHANN HUFNAGEL and ANNA ROEDER: Marriage: November 13, 1831, Altengronau, Hessen1 Children of ANNA ROEDER and JOHANN HUFNAGEL are: 6. i. JOHANNES9 HUFNAGEL, b. 1825, Altengronau, Hessen; d. 1869, Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana. 7. ii. JOH. ADAM HUFNAGEL, b. 1828, Altengronau, Hessen; d. 1870, Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana. iii. CHRISTIANE HUFNAGEL1, b. 1830, Altengronau, Hessen1; d. 1846, Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1; m. HAHN1. 8. iv. HEINRICH HUFNAGEL, b. 1835, Altengronau, Hessen; d. 1872, Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana. v. JOHANN KARL HUFNAGEL1, b. 18361. 9. vi. ELIZABETH ANNA HUFNAGEL, b. March 14, 1838, Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana; d. Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana. vii. MARGARETTE HUFNAGEL1, b. 18421. viii. GEORGE C HUFNAGEL1, b. 18441. Generation No. 5 6. JOHANNES9 HUFNAGEL (ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born 1825 in Altengronau, Hessen1, and died 1869 in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1. Children of JOHANNES HUFNAGEL are: i. CHRISTINE10 HUFNAGEL1, b. 18551. ii. CATHERINE HUFNAGEL1, b. 18571. iii. CHARLES HUFNAGEL1, b. 18581. iv. JOHN HUFNAGEL1, b. 18601. v. BARBARA HUFNAGEL1, b. 18611. vi. CASPER HUFNAGEL1, b. 18631. vii. MARGARETTE HUFNAGEL1, b. 18651. viii. CHARLES HUFNAGEL1, b. 18671. ix. WILLIAM HUFNAGEL1, b. 18671. x. CHARLES HUFNAGEL1, b. 18691. 7. JOH. ADAM9 HUFNAGEL (ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born 1828 in Altengronau, Hessen1, and died 1870 in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1. Children of JOH. ADAM HUFNAGEL are: i. ELIZABETH MARGARETTE10 HUFNAGEL1, b. 18501. ii. ANNA ELIZABETH HUFNAGEL1, b. 18521. iii. ADAM HUFNAGEL1, b. 18551. iv. JOHN ADAM HUFNAGEL1, b. 18551. v. JOHN HUFNAGEL1, b. 18581. vi. PETER HUFNAGEL1, b. 18601. vii. GEORGE HUFNAGEL1, b. 18611. viii. CHRISTINA HUFNAGEL1, b. 18651. ix. CAROLINA HUFNAGEL1, b. 18681. x. HENRY HUFNAGEL1, b. 18701. 8. HEINRICH9 HUFNAGEL (ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born 1835 in Altengronau, Hessen1, and died 1872 in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1. He married UNKNOWN1. Children of HEINRICH HUFNAGEL and UNKNOWN are: i. GEORGE10 HUFNAGEL1, b. 18581. ii. CAROLINE HUFNAGEL1, b. 18591. iii. ADAM HUFNAGEL1, b. 18611. iv. PETER HUFNAGEL1, b. 18621. v. WILLIAM HUFNAGEL1, b. 18671. vi. JACOB HUFNAGEL1, b. 18691. vii. ELIZABETH HUFNAGEL1, b. 18721. 9. ELIZABETH ANNA9 HUFNAGEL (ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born March 14, 1838 in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1, and died in Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1. She married HERMAN HEINRICH [ZIEGELER] DREIER1, son of JOHANN DREIER and FRIEDERICKE BRINK. He was born in Lückhausen (Lippe)1. More About ELIZABETH ANNA HUFNAGEL: Burial: Locust Hill Cem., Evansville, Vanderburgh, Indiana1 Children of ELIZABETH HUFNAGEL and HERMAN DREIER are: i. MARGARET L10 DREIER1, b. November 04, 1858, Union Twp, Vanderburgh ,Indiana1; d. January 30, 19311; m. GEORGE P. BOICOURT1, May 30, 1888, Pope, Illinois1; b. July 27, 1861, Golconda ,Pope ,Illinois1. More About GEORGE BOICOURT and MARGARET DREIER: Marriage: May 30, 1888, Pope, Illinois1 ii. MARY ANN DREIER1, b. 18661; m. SAMUEL NICHOLAS GRANT1. iii. ELIZABETH C DREIER1, b. 18611; d. 19331; m. (1) CHARLES BRANDENSTEIN1; m. (2) JOHN EDWARD FINNEY1. 10. iv. FREDERICK ANDREW DREIER, b. 1875; d. 1946. v. HERMAN DREIER1, b. March 24, 1872, Union Twp, Vanderburg, Indiana1; d. September 02, 19391; m. ABBIE ROSE1, April 22, 19221; b. Abt. 18761. More About HERMAN DREIER and ABBIE ROSE: Marriage: April 22, 19221 vi. JOHN AUGUST DREIER1, b. 18771; d. 19421; m. LOUISE CATHERINE BOOS1. vii. MATHILDA DREIER1, b. 18811; d. 19341; m. OMER WRIGHT1. Generation No. 6 10. FREDERICK ANDREW10 DREIER (ELIZABETH ANNA9 HUFNAGEL, ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born 18751, and died 19461. He married ANNA ELIZABETH HOGE1. Child of FREDERICK DREIER and ANNA HOGE is: 11. i. JEROME HERMAN11 DREIER, b. 1899. Generation No. 7 11. JEROME HERMAN11 DREIER (FREDERICK ANDREW10, ELIZABETH ANNA9 HUFNAGEL, ANNA ELISABETH8 ROEDER, ANNA MARTHA7 HERCHE, HEINRICH6, HARTMANN5, CONRAD4, MELCHIOR3, ADAM2, HERCHE OR1 HERGE)1 was born 18991. Children of JEROME HERMAN DREIER are: i. STEPHEN WAYNE12 DREIER1. ii. DIANA DREIER1, b. 19321; m. DEPUTY1.

I'm with you Mary,and I don't mind the sermon at all! I am going to go looking for Hessians myself! Flora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bird" <bird@glasgow-ky.com> To: <HARKEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 4:41 PM Subject: [HARKEY-L] Johannes > The Johannes that came on the Lydia has been claimed years ago by a family > Hinche > They have fairly good documentation that he was theirs and I have tried for > years to argue with them but it appears that they are right after all. He > is not OURS. > > The books we have, have been very valuable to us. The early researchers of > the Harkey family should be elevated to sainthood. Some of you remember > having to look at microfilm till you were blind. write snail mail letters > and wait for months for an answer-- if you got one. They traveled all over > the world searching and they put what they had in their books.. All or most > of us, base our work on their hardships. However we can't say that anyone > of them, or us, have our genealogy perfect and written in concrete. > > We can accept Nina's information and help try to prove or disprove it with > evidence. > Or we can dismiss it totally and cling to our old ideas of where we came > from and who we are. > I am tired of banging my head on the Lydia and I welcome something new to > look for. > I'm going hunting Hessians. > I hope you don't mind a sermon. I am very excited . > Love to everyone. > Mary Harkey Russell > bird@glasgow-ky.com > http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bird > > > ==== HARKEY Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the Harkey list send the word Unsubscribe in a blank > email addressed to HARKEY-L-request@rootsweb.com > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >

The Johannes that came on the Lydia has been claimed years ago by a family Hinche They have fairly good documentation that he was theirs and I have tried for years to argue with them but it appears that they are right after all. He is not OURS. The books we have, have been very valuable to us. The early researchers of the Harkey family should be elevated to sainthood. Some of you remember having to look at microfilm till you were blind. write snail mail letters and wait for months for an answer-- if you got one. They traveled all over the world searching and they put what they had in their books.. All or most of us, base our work on their hardships. However we can't say that anyone of them, or us, have our genealogy perfect and written in concrete. We can accept Nina's information and help try to prove or disprove it with evidence. Or we can dismiss it totally and cling to our old ideas of where we came from and who we are. I am tired of banging my head on the Lydia and I welcome something new to look for. I'm going hunting Hessians. I hope you don't mind a sermon. I am very excited . Love to everyone. Mary Harkey Russell bird@glasgow-ky.com http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bird

As some of you know, I was in Germany last spring and included a side trip to the Sterbfitz area. I had promised some information for the list, which has been slow in coming together. Today I was on the phone with Karl-Heinz Herche who has been kind enough to work with us and offer us all the information he has in his data. (We also have information he is interested in, so it's a mutual thing) The conversation also presented some new information I did not yet have. The direct ancestor of Karl-Heinz Herche is Hartmann Herche, younger brother of Johannes Jacob Herche. To begin with, it seems we do indeed have the correct ancestor, Johannes Jacob Herche, b. Sterbfritz, 12 August 1708. His siblings are as follows: CONRAD HERCHE (Herrche, Herge) born August 23, 1657 in Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen, and died December 27, 1732 in Sterbfritz Hessen - Nassau. He married EULALIA (PAUL - PAULI) PFAUL June 06, 1695 in Sterbfritz, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany, daughter of HARTMANN PFAUL and EVA MUTH. She was born March 17, 1675 in Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau. More About CONRAD HERCHE: Fact 1: August 23, 1657, Christened More About CONRAD HERCHE and EULALIA PFAUL: Marriage: June 06, 1695, Sterbfritz, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany Children of CONRAD HERCHE and EULALIA PFAUL are: i. BARBARA5 HERCHE1, b. August 15, 1696, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, ii. ANNA MARIA HERCHE1, b. February 07, 1699, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. iii. MARGRETHA HERCHE1, b. February 01, 1702, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. iv. ELISABETHA HERCHE1, b. March 21, 1706, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. v. JOHANNES JACOB HERCHE1, b. August 12, 1708, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. vi. HARTMANN HERCHE1, b. March 20, 1711, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen; d. May 02, 1775, Mottgers, Hessen1; m. CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT1, February 16, 17411; b. March 31, 1711, Schwarzenfels, Hessen1; d. January 04, 1784, Mottgers, Hessen. More About HARTMANN HERCHE and CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT: Marriage: February 16, 17411 vii. EVA ELISABETH HERCHE1, b. November 08, 1713, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen. viii. ANNA HERCHE1, b. July 13, 1716, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen. There had been talk about having Clemens Schreiber, a local historian living in Schlüchtern, read the area church books for us. The goal was to get as much information about Johannes as possible. Karl-Heinz has already had this done a few years back and has all the information in hand which he will be mailing to me shortly. While there is a wealth of ancestral information, there is little or no information on Johannes, none that would be helpful to us in getting him "across the pond" to the colonies. Church books reveal the following about Johannes: *Birth date *Christening date and sponsors names *Confirmation After that, there are no further records about Johannes. What is noteworthy about this is that after the age of 13 there are no entries for him, no death and no marriage. The fact that there is no death entry implies that the towns people lost track of him and had no idea of his whereabouts, whether he married and where and when he dies. He just disappeared in the sense that after he left the area no one there had any further contact with him. Karl-Heinz presents some history of the area at the time. During this period the area was very depressed and poor. This was post robber baron purge and pillage, drought and famine. The Duke of the area was looking for a way to raise money for the depressed region. At this time, England need man power to patrol the colonies (a national guard of sorts) and they did not have enough man power to cover all the territories. They "rented" manpower from areas of Europe and would pay kingdoms "per head" of bodies they could have. There was a notice sent through the Sterbfritz area for volunteers. Several men from the area joined. This meant they received the appropriate papers to migrate to England, become an "English Soldier" and be shipped to the colonies. He feels Johannes was one of those that volunteered. If this is indeed the case, as seems very plausible right now, we will never find Johannes on a Ship Manifest as he was transported to the Colonies aboard a British Tr! oops transport. He estimates the year to be somewhere in the range of 1722 to very latest 1730. With Johannes being born 1708, by 1730 he would have been 22 yrs old. Karl-Heinz assumed him to have left earlier than that as there is no record of marriage for him, by that age he would have most likely married already. So anytime after the age of 16-18 (even at the age of 14 he could have enlisted) would have been when he chose to "enlist". With Johannes gone (the 1st son) all the land and real estate went to the 2nd son, Hartmann. Karl-Heinz has an extensive database of the ancestors of Johannes and Hartmann. His records go back to round about the year 1200 which he will also be sending me (actually, I think he said it was already in the mail). His database places the family in the Hessen area back to that date. The family is a noble one, full of judges, heads of church, etc. They were Knights and Barons. There is indeed a family crest (not one that you can order on the net, but a real documented one in the Germanic archives) that he has a copy of and will provide as well. The lineage ultimately traces back to Kaiser Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) although Karl-Heinz says he is working on the documents to make it all official. According to the crest he has it was this nobility that the HERCHE lineage is connected to and the house that granted the crest. Another direct German relative is Heinrich Lübke, president of Germany 1959-1969. I will have more specific information to post once I have Karl-Heinz's data in hand. Now I guess we need to look into Hessian Soldier records and see if we can find anything to support Karl-Heinz's theory of Johannes' enlistment. So far it is just a theory, but makes sense. I also have a scanned image of additional names in the tree that Karl-Heinz sent me. For some reason not everyone I emailed a copy to received it, either at all or in a form that could not be accessed. I will convert it all to text and post those names as well, to the list so everyone has a copy.

Hello Nina, God sent you to this family and I will be forever grateful for all you do to help us. This is wonderful information! I am thrilled to death over all of it. I have been muddling along working on our family since 1975....... that is a very long time. Finally it appears we may get out of the USA with documentation. You have made my day! Thanks, Flora ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nina Harkey" <nhark@tc3net.com> To: <HARKEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2002 3:27 PM Subject: [HARKEY-L] Johannes Herche (how he possibly got to the US) > As some of you know, I was in Germany last spring and included a side trip to the Sterbfitz area. I had promised some information for the list, which has been slow in coming together. Today I was on the phone with Karl-Heinz Herche who has been kind enough to work with us and offer us all the information he has in his data. (We also have information he is interested in, so it's a mutual thing) The conversation also presented some new information I did not yet have. The direct ancestor of Karl-Heinz Herche is Hartmann Herche, younger brother of Johannes Jacob Herche. > > To begin with, it seems we do indeed have the correct ancestor, Johannes Jacob Herche, b. Sterbfritz, 12 August 1708. His siblings are as follows: > > CONRAD HERCHE (Herrche, Herge) born August 23, 1657 in Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen, and died December 27, 1732 in Sterbfritz Hessen - Nassau. He married EULALIA (PAUL - PAULI) PFAUL June 06, 1695 in Sterbfritz, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany, daughter of HARTMANN PFAUL and EVA MUTH. She was born March 17, 1675 in Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau. > More About CONRAD HERCHE: > Fact 1: August 23, 1657, Christened > More About CONRAD HERCHE and EULALIA PFAUL: > Marriage: June 06, 1695, Sterbfritz, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany > Children of CONRAD HERCHE and EULALIA PFAUL are: > i. BARBARA5 HERCHE1, b. August 15, 1696, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, > ii. ANNA MARIA HERCHE1, b. February 07, 1699, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > iii. MARGRETHA HERCHE1, b. February 01, 1702, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > iv. ELISABETHA HERCHE1, b. March 21, 1706, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > v. JOHANNES JACOB HERCHE1, b. August 12, 1708, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > vi. HARTMANN HERCHE1, b. March 20, 1711, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen; d. May 02, 1775, Mottgers, Hessen1; m. CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT1, February 16, 17411; b. March 31, 1711, Schwarzenfels, Hessen1; d. January 04, 1784, Mottgers, Hessen. > More About HARTMANN HERCHE and CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT: > Marriage: February 16, 17411 > vii. EVA ELISABETH HERCHE1, b. November 08, 1713, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen. > viii. ANNA HERCHE1, b. July 13, 1716, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen. > > There had been talk about having Clemens Schreiber, a local historian living in Schlüchtern, read the area church books for us. The goal was to get as much information about Johannes as possible. Karl-Heinz has already had this done a few years back and has all the information in hand which he will be mailing to me shortly. While there is a wealth of ancestral information, there is little or no information on Johannes, none that would be helpful to us in getting him "across the pond" to the colonies. Church books reveal the following about Johannes: > *Birth date > *Christening date and sponsors names > *Confirmation > After that, there are no further records about Johannes. What is noteworthy about this is that after the age of 13 there are no entries for him, no death and no marriage. The fact that there is no death entry implies that the towns people lost track of him and had no idea of his whereabouts, whether he married and where and when he dies. He just disappeared in the sense that after he left the area no one there had any further contact with him. > > Karl-Heinz presents some history of the area at the time. During this period the area was very depressed and poor. This was post robber baron purge and pillage, drought and famine. The Duke of the area was looking for a way to raise money for the depressed region. At this time, England need man power to patrol the colonies (a national guard of sorts) and they did not have enough man power to cover all the territories. They "rented" manpower from areas of Europe and would pay kingdoms "per head" of bodies they could have. There was a notice sent through the Sterbfritz area for volunteers. Several men from the area joined. This meant they received the appropriate papers to migrate to England, become an "English Soldier" and be shipped to the colonies. He feels Johannes was one of those that volunteered. If this is indeed the case, as seems very plausible right now, we will never find Johannes on a Ship Manifest as he was transported to the Colonies aboard a British ! Tr! > oops transport. He estimates the year to be somewhere in the range of 1722 to very latest 1730. With Johannes being born 1708, by 1730 he would have been 22 yrs old. Karl-Heinz assumed him to have left earlier than that as there is no record of marriage for him, by that age he would have most likely married already. So anytime after the age of 16-18 (even at the age of 14 he could have enlisted) would have been when he chose to "enlist". With Johannes gone (the 1st son) all the land and real estate went to the 2nd son, Hartmann. > > Karl-Heinz has an extensive database of the ancestors of Johannes and Hartmann. His records go back to round about the year 1200 which he will also be sending me (actually, I think he said it was already in the mail). His database places the family in the Hessen area back to that date. > > The family is a noble one, full of judges, heads of church, etc. They were Knights and Barons. There is indeed a family crest (not one that you can order on the net, but a real documented one in the Germanic archives) that he has a copy of and will provide as well. The lineage ultimately traces back to Kaiser Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) although Karl-Heinz says he is working on the documents to make it all official. According to the crest he has it was this nobility that the HERCHE lineage is connected to and the house that granted the crest. Another direct German relative is Heinrich Lübke, president of Germany 1959-1969. I will have more specific information to post once I have Karl-Heinz's data in hand. > > Now I guess we need to look into Hessian Soldier records and see if we can find anything to support Karl-Heinz's theory of Johannes' enlistment. So far it is just a theory, but makes sense. > > I also have a scanned image of additional names in the tree that Karl-Heinz sent me. For some reason not everyone I emailed a copy to received it, either at all or in a form that could not be accessed. I will convert it all to text and post those names as well, to the list so everyone has a copy. > > > > > > ==== HARKEY Mailing List ==== > Have you heard about the website for Big Uncle Cemetery, San Saba TX. You'll find it interesting If any of your Harkey's went to Texas. > http://www.rootsweb.com/~txssaba/uncle.html > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 > >

Nina, My thank you also. The answers are close. Harkeys everywhere are indebted to you. Even old wanting proof me is excited. I will start looking for the Hessen soldiers links. Kay At 04:27 PM 8/10/2002 -0400, you wrote: >As some of you know, I was in Germany last spring and included a side trip >to the Sterbfitz area. I had promised some information for the list, >which has been slow in coming together. Today I was on the phone with >Karl-Heinz Herche who has been kind enough to work with us and offer us >all the information he has in his data. (We also have information he is >interested in, so it's a mutual thing) The conversation also presented >some new information I did not yet have. The direct ancestor of >Karl-Heinz Herche is Hartmann Herche, younger brother of Johannes Jacob Herche. > >To begin with, it seems we do indeed have the correct ancestor, Johannes >Jacob Herche, b. Sterbfritz, 12 August 1708. His siblings are as follows: > >CONRAD HERCHE (Herrche, Herge) born August 23, 1657 in Sterbfritz, Hessen >- Nassau, Preußen, and died December 27, 1732 in Sterbfritz Hessen - >Nassau. He married EULALIA (PAUL - PAULI) PFAUL June 06, 1695 in >Sterbfritz, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany, daughter of HARTMANN PFAUL >and EVA MUTH. She was born March 17, 1675 in Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau. >More About CONRAD HERCHE: >Fact 1: August 23, 1657, Christened >More About CONRAD HERCHE and EULALIA PFAUL: >Marriage: June 06, 1695, Sterbfritz, Hessen-Nassau, Preußen, Germany > Children of CONRAD HERCHE and EULALIA PFAUL are: > i. BARBARA5 HERCHE1, b. August 15, 1696, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, > ii. ANNA MARIA HERCHE1, b. February 07, 1699, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > iii. MARGRETHA HERCHE1, b. February 01, 1702, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > iv. ELISABETHA HERCHE1, b. March 21, 1706, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > v. JOHANNES JACOB HERCHE1, b. August 12, 1708, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau1. > vi. HARTMANN HERCHE1, b. March 20, 1711, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, > Preußen; d. May 02, 1775, Mottgers, Hessen1; m. CATHARINA > AILGET/EILGERT1, February 16, 17411; b. March 31, 1711, Schwarzenfels, > Hessen1; d. January 04, 1784, Mottgers, Hessen. >More About HARTMANN HERCHE and CATHARINA AILGET/EILGERT: >Marriage: February 16, 17411 > vii. EVA ELISABETH HERCHE1, b. November 08, 1713, Sterbfritz, Hessen - > Nassau, Preußen. >viii. ANNA HERCHE1, b. July 13, 1716, Sterbfritz, Hessen - Nassau, Preußen. > >There had been talk about having Clemens Schreiber, a local historian >living in Schlüchtern, read the area church books for us. The goal was to >get as much information about Johannes as possible. Karl-Heinz has >already had this done a few years back and has all the information in hand >which he will be mailing to me shortly. While there is a wealth of >ancestral information, there is little or no information on Johannes, none >that would be helpful to us in getting him "across the pond" to the >colonies. Church books reveal the following about Johannes: >*Birth date >*Christening date and sponsors names >*Confirmation >After that, there are no further records about Johannes. What is >noteworthy about this is that after the age of 13 there are no entries for >him, no death and no marriage. The fact that there is no death entry >implies that the towns people lost track of him and had no idea of his >whereabouts, whether he married and where and when he dies. He just >disappeared in the sense that after he left the area no one there had any >further contact with him. > >Karl-Heinz presents some history of the area at the time. During this >period the area was very depressed and poor. This was post robber baron >purge and pillage, drought and famine. The Duke of the area was looking >for a way to raise money for the depressed region. At this time, England >need man power to patrol the colonies (a national guard of sorts) and they >did not have enough man power to cover all the territories. They "rented" >manpower from areas of Europe and would pay kingdoms "per head" of bodies >they could have. There was a notice sent through the Sterbfritz area for >volunteers. Several men from the area joined. This meant they received >the appropriate papers to migrate to England, become an "English Soldier" >and be shipped to the colonies. He feels Johannes was one of those that >volunteered. If this is indeed the case, as seems very plausible right >now, we will never find Johannes on a Ship Manifest as he was transported >to the Colonies aboard a British Tr! >oops transport. He estimates the year to be somewhere in the range of >1722 to very latest 1730. With Johannes being born 1708, by 1730 he would >have been 22 yrs old. Karl-Heinz assumed him to have left earlier than >that as there is no record of marriage for him, by that age he would have >most likely married already. So anytime after the age of 16-18 (even at >the age of 14 he could have enlisted) would have been when he chose to >"enlist". With Johannes gone (the 1st son) all the land and real estate >went to the 2nd son, Hartmann. > >Karl-Heinz has an extensive database of the ancestors of Johannes and >Hartmann. His records go back to round about the year 1200 which he will >also be sending me (actually, I think he said it was already in the >mail). His database places the family in the Hessen area back to that date. > >The family is a noble one, full of judges, heads of church, etc. They >were Knights and Barons. There is indeed a family crest (not one that you >can order on the net, but a real documented one in the Germanic archives) >that he has a copy of and will provide as well. The lineage ultimately >traces back to Kaiser Karl der Grosse (Charlemagne) although Karl-Heinz >says he is working on the documents to make it all official. According to >the crest he has it was this nobility that the HERCHE lineage is connected >to and the house that granted the crest. Another direct German relative >is Heinrich Lübke, president of Germany 1959-1969. I will have more >specific information to post once I have Karl-Heinz's data in hand. > >Now I guess we need to look into Hessian Soldier records and see if we can >find anything to support Karl-Heinz's theory of Johannes' enlistment. So >far it is just a theory, but makes sense. > >I also have a scanned image of additional names in the tree that >Karl-Heinz sent me. For some reason not everyone I emailed a copy to >received it, either at all or in a form that could not be accessed. I >will convert it all to text and post those names as well, to the list so >everyone has a copy. > > > > > >==== HARKEY Mailing List ==== > Have you heard about the website for Big Uncle Cemetery, San Saba TX. > You'll find it interesting If any of your Harkey's went to Texas. >http://www.rootsweb.com/~txssaba/uncle.html > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Checking my family sheets this morning I find Louisa Catherine Harkey married to Gilbert Daniel Allen. My notes say that some of this line was related to Lillian Lawrence who did the original research and I has made it's way through 2 or 3 other people . My question is about one of the Allen children and I'm hoping some of you may have an answer. Harriet married 1898 in San Saba to a DODD McCOMMANT. I want to know if I have his name right or if it could be McCammant or McCammon? I am a McCalman descendant and that name has been spelled a dozen ways. Wondering if this is another way. Mary Harkey Russell bird@glasgow-ky.com http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~bird

1st son was Ollie L Harkey died Dec 15,1969 age 86 widowed in Iredell, Davie Co N.C. 2nd son Lettie ( Lee Roy) Harkey born May 6 1885- died Jan 27 1978 Mocksville, Davie County N.C. buried "Joppa Presbyterian Cemetery, Mocksville N>C.

Have found the above listed on the 1920 NC census, mispelled as Harkie on the main page. Showing Julius F married to a Bettie A.(which would be Bettie Ann "Betsy" Cain with 2 sons, 1 is an "Ollie Harkey" the other is Lettie or Laddie Harkey later in life changed to Lee Roy , the date of birth is correct for him according to the death announcement. Betty Harkey

Looking for info on above, siblings and who parents were. She was born, Davie Co NC 1879-1956, she was married to a W Dudley Reavis. Buried in Liberty Baptist Cemetery. Betty Harkey

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <HARKEY-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <HARKEY-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 04, 2002 1:00 PM Subject: HARKEY-D Digest V02 #66

Jesse and Dosee are my line. I can't find my Julian beyond Jesse's move to Graves co. KY. I found a 1880 Census for Davi Co. NC showing: Harkey, Julius F. 34 farmer Elizabeth A. 30 wife Lula?? 1 Baker, Mary 13 servant Have assumed them to be my Julius F., but not positive. have never found them to have moved to KY. Kay At 09:11 AM 8/4/2002 -0400, you wrote: >Might this be Julian / Julias F Harkey (or Julias as mentioned here) >b. June 3, 1846 >Cabarrus County, NC > >s/o >Jesse Harkey and Dosee ? > Jesse Harkey b. June 04, 1822, d. June 09, 1901 > >Jesse Harkey, s/o John Harkey and Christina Beaver. >???? > > > > Doing family tree, above is husbands Gr Grandfather & > Gr Grandmother. Their were several children, have only > name of one Lee Roy (Laddie) Harkey. They are both > buried at Bear Creek Baptist Church Cemetery in Davie > County N.C. Any help would be appreciated. > Betty Harkey > > > > >==== HARKEY Mailing List ==== >To contact list manager write to Mary Harkey Russell >bird@glasgow-ky.com > >============================== >To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, >go to: >http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Might this be Julian / Julias F Harkey (or Julias as mentioned here) b. June 3, 1846 Cabarrus County, NC s/o Jesse Harkey and Dosee ? Jesse Harkey b. June 04, 1822, d. June 09, 1901 Jesse Harkey, s/o John Harkey and Christina Beaver. ???? Doing family tree, above is husbands Gr Grandfather & Gr Grandmother. Their were several children, have only name of one Lee Roy (Laddie) Harkey. They are both buried at Bear Creek Baptist Church Cemetery in Davie County N.C. Any help would be appreciated. Betty Harkey

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Harkey Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/zdh.2ACIB/176 Message Board Post: Doing family tree, above is husbands Gr Grandfather & Gr Grandmother. Their were several children, have only name of one Lee Roy (Laddie) Harkey. They are both buried at Bear Creek Baptist Church Cemetery in Davie County N.C. Any help would be appreciated. Betty Harkey

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <HARKEY-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <HARKEY-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 02, 2002 11:00 PM Subject: HARKEY-D Digest V02 #65

Dear cousins, I received a letter yesterday from Mr. J. P. Lindsey who is a decendant of J. M. Hall who is buried in Big Uncle. He has asked me to contact other decendants of people buried in Big Uncle so I figured the best way was the web. The purpose of his letter was to inform everyone that he, his brother and some cousins of both Harkey/Hall families are going to form a Big Uncle Cemetery Association for maintenance and perpetual care of the cemetery. Current expenses are about $150 per month for maintence but as they get more people and families involved, the cost will be very little to each. My wife and I and two aunts were there in the fall of 2000 and the local cousins had just cleaned it up that spring after many years of neglect. I was saddened to learn that it had been overgrown with weeds, trees and cattle had roamed through it knocking over headstones and breaking many. They did a wonderful job of restoring the cemetery and repairing most of the headstones and erecting a chain link fence all around it. If anyone would like a copy of the letter, send me your address and I will make a copy and send it to you. Or, contact Mr. J. P. Lindsey, Box 761, Coldspring, TX 77331. Telephone # (936) 653-4243. If any of the other Harkey cousins would like to contribute a little something, I'm sure Mr. Lindsey would not turn it down. Please pass this message to any and all other decendants of the families buried there. Thanks Sid

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <HARKEY-D-request@rootsweb.com> To: <HARKEY-D@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, August 01, 2002 2:00 PM Subject: HARKEY-D Digest V02 #64

I have one of my HARKEY's that I need help with. I've found Lulu Harkey in the 1910 census for Louisa county Iowa living with the Issac and Rhoda STINEMAN family. My grandfather was John Daniel HARKEY. His wife's name was Catherine Deliah VULGAMORE HARKEY. They had 7 living children, one of which was George. I found the marriage registration for George S. HARKEY and Pearl M. STINEMAN, married July 25, 1906. Lulu's age in the 1910 census is smudged but she looks to be some months old. Does anyone know if Lulu does in fact belong to George and Pearl and what happend to them? Why wasn't Lulu with them? Any help would be appreciated. I would be greatful for any knowledge of Lulu Harkey. Thank you. Donna

If Sophia Harkey is one of your ancestors, please get in touch with me. I have just begun researching her and would love to hear from "cousins" and other interested parties. Thanks Betty

Hello Betty, Are you speaking of Sophia, born 1819, daughter of David Harkey and Catherine Eudy? Welcome to the list and I look forward to hearing from you. Flora ----- Original Message ----- From: <Kicmango@aol.com> To: <HARKEY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 31, 2002 12:30 PM Subject: [HARKEY-L] Sophia Harkey > If Sophia Harkey is one of your ancestors, please get in touch with me. I > have just begun researching her and would love to hear from "cousins" and > other interested parties. > Thanks > Betty >