Hi Julia, Thank you for your comments. I am just hoping that with some additional data that we will be able to separate these "closely related" families in Group 3. Best Regards, Raymond Kelly -----Original Message----- From: JULIAFWOOD@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:15 PM To: hancock@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HANCOCK] How Many Markers should you Test for? I agree, Raymond, it appears that the two with 27 at DYS449 may be more closely related than they are to the rest of the group but you can't make that determination until after the test is done and you are able to compare matches. Note, also, that the informative mutation is in the first 25 markers and it doesn't appear that upgrading to 37 has helped at all. But, at 37 markers we, now, see that the two with the 14 at DYS607 may be more closely related to each other than to the rest of the group. However, these mutations should be repeated in other tests to be sure they are a marker for a down line. Hence, you can't make general statements about DNA. However, If you look at Group 4, you can see that "all" the descendants of Old William Hancock of Craven County, NC have the same mutation at DYS439 where they have a 14 and "all" descendants of the Maryland Hancock line have an 11 at that position, including the Miles Gray who moved to Maryland. This indicates that the mutation occurred either right after the line arrived in America or before they came to America if they came separately. These common mutations are more informative than lines that match each other exactly. In my French line, we have a mutation at two different positions in a line that came into New Jersey in the mid 17th Century and a line that came into Virginia a bit later. http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Hancock/default.aspx?section=ycolorized _http://www.familytreedna.com/public/French/default.aspx?section=ycolorized_ (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/French/default.aspx?section=ycolorized) Look at the bottom of Group 1 in the French Project. Julia In a message dated 2/5/2013 2:44:42 P.M. Central Standard Time, RKelly6704@verizon.net writes: Hi Julia, What I see in Group 3 is that we have 8 participants, Kit Number 8902, 8899, 10903, 21523, 11139, 32682, 76203, and 119362, that match 25/25. If they upgraded to 37 markers we would have a higher probability of determining more accurately how closely they are related to the other participants in Group 3. In Group 3 the modal value for DYS 607 is 15. However, two participants 11050, and 249962 have a one step mutation to 14 on DYS 607. Are there others of the 8 who also have this mutation? Are there other characteristic markers within that group of 8 participants? We won't know unless we run the Test. Best Regards, Raymond Kelly -----Original Message----- From: JULIAFWOOD@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 2:02 PM To: hancock@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HANCOCK] How Many Markers should you Test for? Hi Raymond. With all due respect, the tip is useless. I have 8 DNA Projects with over 2000 members over a span of 11 years and can tell you from that experience that some males' DNA mutates more often than others. Some have perfect matches on 67 markers but their common ancestor is more than ten generations away. Some have many mutations but their proven ancestor is only a few generations away. You can not make general statements about distance if you haven't seen a person's DNA and compared them to matching DNA. Look at Group 1 in the Hancock Project. Most of their mutations are in the first 25 Markers, so the second set of 37 markers didn't help at all. Other are the opposite. DNA doesn't lend itself to general statements. Mutations occur at random, meaning anytime at any place on the STRs. And they are, always, between a father and son. Julia In a message dated 2/5/2013 12:52:29 P.M. Central Standard Time, RKelly6704@verizon.net writes: Greetings Julia, You can easily verify the accuracy of my statement using the TiP Calculator on your Matches page. A 25/25 match indicates with a 90% probability that participants share a Common Ancestor within the past 10 generations. Most of us don't have paper trails going back 10 generations. A 37/37 match indicates with a 90% probability that participants share a Common Ancestor within the past 4 generations. We have a recent example in Group 3 of the value of upgrading to 37 markers. 15362, Calvin Ward Hancock recently upgraded from 25 to 37 markers. The data shows that he has a 37/37 match with 192813, Thomas Hunter Hancock. Their 37/37 match indicates with a 90% probability that that they share a Common Ancestor within the past 4 generations. This greatly aids in the search for the identity of the Common Ancestor. Best Regards, Raymond Kelly -----Original Message----- From: JULIAFWOOD@aol.com Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 12:06 PM To: hancock@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HANCOCK] Ancestors in the DNA Project While I do recommend the 37 marker test, the statement below by Raymond is not correct. DNA can't be pin pointed that way. The DNA results can't be interpreted until they are in and have DNA matches. If you order the 25 markers, you can, always, update later if you wish to have 37, 67 or 111 markers. It is best to order the most markers that you can afford. Julia French Wood Administrator, Hancock DNA Project In a message dated 2/5/2013 10:53:37 A.M. Central Standard Time, RKelly6704@verizon.net writes: Henry, I would encourage you to select the 37 marker Test. 37 markers are sufficient to confirm a connection within the past 4 generations. 25 markers are only sufficient to confirm a connection within the past 10 generations. Best Regards, Raymond Kelly -----Original Message----- From: Sue Jones Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 1:41 AM To: hancock@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HANCOCK] Ancestors in the DNA Project Henry, First of all, I want to urge you to get the DNA test. PLEASE. I doubt you are connected to the Jamestown Hancocks, but the DNA test will be the only way to know. I have been digging through mounds of old research tonight trying to figure out where I have seen the genealogy for Henry Grady Hancock III. Julia assures me it has never been on the Hancock DNA chart. I finally figured it out. In 2005 and 2006, Bill Felknor (spelled "nor" as opposed to "ner") shared a lot of material with me. I know you were once in touch with Bill. If you don't have the entire genealogy record dating back to Robert b. 1711 in VA, I do and will be happy to share it with you. You will need to send me your address offline so I can mail everything to you. There's a lot of paperwork. Bill Felknor only has documentation going back to Robert b. 1711 in VA. He speculates that your line goes all the way back to William, born about 1580 in England, but your DNA will be the only proof of that speculation. I even think there's reason to believe your line may be kin to my line. There's a lot of overlap in our families, so your DNA test results will be of great interest to me. Sue in Texas --- On Mon, 2/4/13, squeezeboxdood@verizon.net <squeezeboxdood@verizon.net> wrote: From: squeezeboxdood@verizon.net <squeezeboxdood@verizon.net> Subject: Re: [HANCOCK] Ancestors in the DNA Project To: hancock@rootsweb.com Date: Monday, February 4, 2013, 8:12 PM Sue/Julia I imagine I need to do a DNA test in order to be posted on the DNA Project. I want to be in contact with a living breathing family member from that line. The number I have for Bill Felkner is no longer in service. I tried calling him this weekend. I do appreciate all your help in advance. Was there a William Hancock that came through Jamestown in 1619 and was killed in the indian uprising at the Berkley Plantation in 1622? There are lots of Hancocks here in the area where I live in Newport News VA., only about 30 miles from Jamestown. There were lots of Hancocks who were born and lived and died right here in this area who were related to his line if he did, in fact, exist. My line of the family migrated into the Carolinas and into Alabama and then into TX. My grandfather/mother then moved to California and had 3 kids, my father, Henry Grady Hancock,Jr born in Long Beach, a son, Richard Clem Hancock born in Ojai and a daughter born in Los Angeles (who is currently living in Myrtle Creek, OR). I was born in Bend, OR but was raised in CA. I joined the Army in 1977 and traveled the world and ultimately ended up here in Virginia right back here where William and so many of his descendants lived. What a great story I could tell my grandkids (of which I have 5), that I brought my family back full circle to VA where it all began. Henry On 02/04/13, JULIAFWOOD@aol.com wrote ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe& from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- Join our DNA Project at: http://www.familytreedna.com/group-join.aspx?Group=Hancock (Scroll down to place your order) ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HANCOCK-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message