Hancock, Gabriel Harrison, Margaret 23 Oct 1819 Madison Hancock, Isaac S. Macy, Sally 27 Nov 1825 St. Clair Hancock, Jeremiah Stedman, Luveney 28 Jun 1819 St. Clair Hancock, Joel Faulk, Nancy 14 Apr 1815 Madison Hancock, Joel Sturdevant, Elizabeth 1 Jan 11825 Tuscaloosa Hancock, Joshua Rollins, Sally 1 Dec 1815 Madison Hancock, William Furgerson, Sarah 10 Sep 1823 Madison Hancock, William Roberts, Polly 25 May 1823 Tuscaloosa

If there is anyone on the list who knows the FTM gen. program fairly well, I have a question. Would you please contact me off the list. Thanks, Jean Hancock in TX

My two (2) cents on the Hancock Project: I love it, feel we should keep it, and that we should update it on a regular basis! Based upon what I've heard, the hardest part of this online project, setting up and merging the various lines, has been done. Many, many thanks to those who have done all this and more! Currently we have a wonderful resource in one location, which should not be abandoned. It should be maintained! Since many of the major lines have been established most new info to be added will be of lineal lines down from existing lines. We should continue to use the guidelines for inclusion of new lines already in place. Based upon what I've heard, documentaion is not required (and shouldn't be). The committee members must decide whether any new info seems to fit with other lines. Sometimes there are conflicting lines. Committee members must then use common sense in determining whether one side is obviously favored or whether another is totally impossible, etc. Whatever the case may be, they must take each case individually and make a decision. Unless a proposed addition is just impossible to be true I think they should be quite liberal in allowing new lines. In the event the committee cannot make a fairly easy determination which line is correct, or when submissions conflict in a major way, the committee should then, as briefly as possible, discuss the differences with the differing parties, and then hopefully once evidence is produced, the parties will come to terms with their differences. BUT, if they do not agree, the committee can then present both lines at the website, such as what Ardath has suggested, i.e. "Line 11A, Line 11B..." So let's keep the Project going and add a disclaimer somewhere to the effect that people should contact the submitters for proofs of lineages, etc. We already have a place where submitters and their email addresses, gedcoms and websites can be found. For the most part then we can pretty much keep the website as it is. Let's add new material to it and keep it maintained. Let's volunteer our time to assist in this. I will be glad to donate some of my time. Any others might express to the committee their availability as well. My best, Jim Hancock

Ardath and all, No offense is taken in your questions. It has been a few years ago that this project was first thought of, so I'm sure many listmembers have joined since that time. When the project was still only an idea, listmembers nominated the committee. After the nominees accepted, the list then voted the committee. At that time, we began having gedcom files sent to us, as well as any other type files anyone wanted to send. We began merging the files into one master file for each line, then began putting them on the website. I think alot of the bad email we got from the project came from people not on the list. I guess these people just thought it was the committee's website, since our email addresses were the ones linked on the site. They just didn't realize this was a project undertaken by an entire list, and didn't understand that we were not experts on each line shown. One thing I do want the list to know is that Julia put her heart and soul into this project. She put in many hours, as she was the one who got most of the information actually loaded and formatted for the website. Another thing I want the list to know is how much the entire committee appreciates each person on this list. Especially those of you that entrusted us with your research. We know that many of you have spend years and years researching your lines, and we know how much trust it takes for you to just hand that information to this committee. Julia has had more than any one person should ever have to deal with thrown on her over the last few years. I know that at this time, she just simply cannot work on the project. I know John also has things keeping him from working on it as well. Arvil is slowing down on his research, so his time is limited as well. At this time, the amount I can do on the project is very limited as well. I am dealing with major changes in my life right now, and my hands are rather full. I don't want to promise more than I can deliver right now. In order to volunteer, it only takes an email to any of us offering your help. We welcome any and all help, especially right now. We do apologize for not getting all changes and links added to the site as soon as they have been sent to us. You aren't forgotten, just momentarily lost in the shuffle. The biggest problem in recruiting help in making these changes comes down to finding people who can design and put up a website, as well as translate the gedcom files over to html format. In order to make any changes, you basically need that knowledge. It is a great project, but I think the approach of putting each line as submitted on the site is the fairest way to do this. For those who don't have their own websites, the lines could be done much as they are now, linking each through a sort of table of contents page. Each researcher who submits a line could be the email link on their pages. Thank you for all the support and encouragement from all of you. As each of us walks our own path of life, your words have made that journey easier just when it was the hardest. You are a great group of people. I look forward to getting back to work on the project, and hope it is not long until the entire committee is able to do that. Until then, if anyone has suggestions or input on how best to put this project online, please let us hear them. The main thing is to keep the project alive so all Hancock researchers can benefit from it. Lisa Check out my website at http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/7502/index.html ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ardath Buckaway" <bqueen@compusmart.ab.ca> To: <HANCOCK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 4:06 PM Subject: [HANCOCK-L] How often do you vote? > Hi again Lisa, > > I may be asking stupid questions, but I would just like to know. I am going to break up one of your notes to do this, and delete other parts. > > "I would like to clarify one point in Bob's message. We did not volunteer, > we were asked and voted on by the list to put this data together." > > How often do you take a vote, and why are there no Volunteers? It sure sounds like you could use them. > > "We have been bombarded with very nasty emails when there are differences of opinions on lines." > > If this has been a democratic style, then those people should know what the rules are and they could be stated on the Web Site. > > "We never agreed to research each line to find out which opinion > was correct. These emails prompted some of the lines to be taken off the > Project site." > > .It would make for better relations if these charts were put up and the person's E-mail, so they could squabble between themselves without the rest of us having to put up with their nonsense > > > I think each of the members of the committee who put so much time into this > Project, have had their own personal challenges to deal with that we did not > anticipate. That type of thing just happens. It's not an excuse, it's just > a fact of life. > > Can people be nominated to the committee or could people volunteer to help. This is a good project, but it looks like more help is needed. There should be others, willing to jump in and fill a space, even once in a while or for a certain term. What about people taking a turn looking after those in their own line? > > There are many people who don't have a voice, because they don't have a web site, only E-mail. Isn't there some way that could be found to listen to some of those people. I sent in my files a long time ago, but my E-mail address has never gone on this site as a researcher, so I become one of the silent majority. > > Please don't think I am putting anyone down. I think all of you have done a great job, and Julia has had more than her share of family problems. My heart goes out to her, but who can step in now to help Lisa. I have heard that John has not been well either, so isn't it time for others to put their back to the wheel? How does a person volunteer? > > Maybe I am a bit slow, or the lack of intelligence is my problem, but I just would like some answers to questions, I know absolutely nothing about. > > I just don't understand. Hang in there Julia, our thoughts are with you. > > A Hancock Cousin, > Ardath > > > > ==== HANCOCK Mailing List ==== > Feel free to post the data you find on HANCOCK > in your research. Census, bible, wills, marriages, > deaths, cemetery, deeds, tax lists, and other > useful data. You might help a cousin who needs it. >

Is there anyone who is on #chart 15? Isham Hancock, born 1799 Georgia & married to Betsy? My e-mail is incorrect on the site. It is helenepockrus@earthlink.net.

Well said Jean! When they were voted on no one said they had to critique or change ANYTHING! Helene

Hi, Alicia, Yes, I gave you the address of the Mass. Archives at Columbia Point, Boston, MA. No, my Hancocks were in Middlesex and Worcester Co.'s in MA, but I have the CD for western Mass. issued by the NEHGS, and it lists Hancock's from Springfield. I prepard a couple of pdf extracts of the pages and sent them to someone on the list (short-term memory loss- I can't remember who), but I don't know if she was able to open them with her Adobe reader. I don't have the CD for Norfolk Co., as yet, otherwise I would look on that for "your" William. You might try entering his name on the form for the Patriot Index on the dar website: http://www.dar.org/ Bonnie

Lisa, I have not found my line in your work but I don't complain for I don't expect you to do my work for me. It is wonderful to be able to find any info on a line, but a person must do most of it on their own.If someone tries to help it is not very polite to knock them .I don't know why people have to be so rude when you and the others have tried to help. We do research but have other obligations such as work, family , the house ,etc. I should think people would be greatful for what you have done and take what they can find and look further for their info.I for one think you and Julia handle this list very well. I am on another list that if you see any messages in a month it's rare. I thank you and wish you the best. Tamara ----- Original Message ----- From: "Lisa" <lpcraven@triad.rr.com> To: <HANCOCK-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, September 05, 2001 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [HANCOCK-L] Hancock Charts > I would like to clarify one point in Bob's message. We did not volunteer, > we were asked and voted on by the list to put this data together. We have > been bombarded with very nasty emails when there are differences of opinions > on lines. We never agreed to research each line to find out which opinion > was correct. These emails prompted some of the lines to be taken off the > Project site. > > I think each of the members of the committee who put so much time into this > Project, have had their own personal challenges to deal with that we did not > anticipate. That type of thing just happens. It's not an excuse, it's just > a fact of life. > > We sorted thousands of Hancock's in these files to combine each line into > one file. I don't think the Project was too big a job for any of us that > have worked on it, but it does dampen the spirit of the Project when we find > message after message in our mailboxes blasting us over the info on the > website or someone accusing us of playing God because they think we favored > one person's work over another's. We tried very hard to get this done > correctly, but as everyone knows, we all have an opinion, and usually those > opinions are different. > > This is the reason we began linking to researchers own personal websites for > different versions of the same lines. This way, everyone had a voice, and > has their chance to offer their opinion to everyone. It seems this is the > best solution we found to a very difficult situation. > > If you need to flame me over this message, please keep it off the list, and > go directly to me. It can't be any worse than emails I've already received > over this project. > > Lisa > > > Check out my website at > http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Valley/7502/index.html > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <BOBHOP@aol.com> > To: <HANCOCK-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2001 5:08 PM > Subject: Re: [HANCOCK-L] Hancock Charts > > > > Ardath- > > > > Well-- that should do it! > > > > I think the real reason is that the Hancock Project is too big for the > > volunteers who offered to do it. > > > > The other reason, is that there is one "researcher" who seems slightly > > demented. She kept telling me to change what I had found to what she said > she > > had (from her mother) but would never show what she had. I kept telling > her > > to submit the data and let the powers-to-be decide. This irked Julia and > John > > and there was a spitting contest. The "researcher" was banned and "my" > Chart > > 3 ostracized. > > > > You will probably shake tree now. BobHop > > > > Visit our home page http://mx4.xoom.com/bhop1 > > > > Major family names- Abel, Adams, Anders, Bellisfield, Brock, Byers, Davis, > > Dement, Field, Guffey, Hancock, Hockaday, Hopkins, Irvine, McClanahan, > > Scarbrough, Shipley, Strother, Stonestreet, Wade, Wampler, Westlake > > > > > > ==== HANCOCK Mailing List ==== > > Feel free to post the data you find on HANCOCK > > in your research. Census, bible, wills, marriages, > > deaths, cemetery, deeds, tax lists, and other > > useful data. You might help a cousin who needs it. > > > > > ==== HANCOCK Mailing List ==== > Check out our HANCOCK Project World Wide at: > http://members.aol.com/heatherjvw/Hancock/ > >

Julia, May God watch over your family. Remember right now he's carrying you. I am 61 and had 5 bypass heart surgery 5 yrs. ago,doing good now.I pray for the same for your husband. Take Care and God Bless Mary Hancock May

Julia, Many, many thanks to you, Lisa and John. We're so sorry to hear about your family and will keep you all in our prayers. It's so wonderful hearing from and getting to know all our Hancock cousins. Kathryn Hancock Senatore

Hi again Lisa, I may be asking stupid questions, but I would just like to know. I am going to break up one of your notes to do this, and delete other parts. "I would like to clarify one point in Bob's message. We did not volunteer, we were asked and voted on by the list to put this data together." How often do you take a vote, and why are there no Volunteers? It sure sounds like you could use them. "We have been bombarded with very nasty emails when there are differences of opinions on lines." If this has been a democratic style, then those people should know what the rules are and they could be stated on the Web Site. "We never agreed to research each line to find out which opinion was correct. These emails prompted some of the lines to be taken off the Project site." .It would make for better relations if these charts were put up and the person's E-mail, so they could squabble between themselves without the rest of us having to put up with their nonsense I think each of the members of the committee who put so much time into this Project, have had their own personal challenges to deal with that we did not anticipate. That type of thing just happens. It's not an excuse, it's just a fact of life. Can people be nominated to the committee or could people volunteer to help. This is a good project, but it looks like more help is needed. There should be others, willing to jump in and fill a space, even once in a while or for a certain term. What about people taking a turn looking after those in their own line? There are many people who don't have a voice, because they don't have a web site, only E-mail. Isn't there some way that could be found to listen to some of those people. I sent in my files a long time ago, but my E-mail address has never gone on this site as a researcher, so I become one of the silent majority. Please don't think I am putting anyone down. I think all of you have done a great job, and Julia has had more than her share of family problems. My heart goes out to her, but who can step in now to help Lisa. I have heard that John has not been well either, so isn't it time for others to put their back to the wheel? How does a person volunteer? Maybe I am a bit slow, or the lack of intelligence is my problem, but I just would like some answers to questions, I know absolutely nothing about. I just don't understand. Hang in there Julia, our thoughts are with you. A Hancock Cousin, Ardath

Hi Folks, As an "old" Hancock on the list let me say that the project the members of the committee put together was a tremendous effort on the part of Julia, Lisa, and John (hope I didn't leave one out!) to bring all of our Hancock information to one site. Considering the fact none of them live in the same city---not to mention part of the U.S. I think they did a wonderful job. At no time did I think that their efforts and the results would be definitive. I felt that each chart would be open to interpretation by individuals and that we would need to contact the person who sent in the chart should a question arise. I do think that Ardath had a very good suggestion about printing all the charts (1A, 1B, etc.) as they were sent in---warts and all and letting each Hancock who looked at them make their own decision about interpretation. However, I understood that what the committee was trying to do was to take out duplications within each chart. I also thought, as John said, that the members of the committee were facilitators not arbitrators---although I do think they were often forced into that position by other members of the list. At no time was I under the impression that the committee members accepted or rejected data according to their interpretations, needs, wants, etc.---and I know they did not do that. I did not know that the committee members were being attacked and I am so sorry to hear that some folks from such a great family saw fit to do so. I wish I had known that at the time as it looks like they could have stood some "defending"! Just my 2¢ worth. And, if you want to flame me, please feel free to do so---privately. I not only have a thick skin, I have a really good fire extinguisher!<LOLOL> Jean in TX

Mitzi said it just right, and I agree with every word. Cecile Harrell ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mitzi Bateman" <mitzi@cncnet.com> To: <HANCOCK-L@rootsweb.com> > I, for one, have always wished my "other" surname lists had an awesome > online project like the Hancock one. I think it was terrific how the > experts on this group were willing to not only put in major personal time on > the project but even more so, share data that someone more mercenary would > have preferred to compile into a profitable book. > > Genealogy is a process, and like most academic endeavors, will need updates > and corrections as more information is discovered. I'd say it's better to > have the draft in place ,online, to work from and realize that since > perfection hasn't been attained anywhere on this earth, there will be some > errors. > > A special thanks to Lisa and Julia and the others who worked so hard to > include all the Hancocks in the project. Julia, so sorry about all you are > currently going through. God bless. > > Mitzi Clark Bateman

Julia, my prayers are with you and your family. Hang in there. Sue Lefan > > > > The only problem with completely converting the entire project > > to that type of set-up is time. I know all the committee members are > > dealing with real life situations right now that prevent us from putting it > > together. Hopefully these situations will soon be dealt with and put behind > > > > Lisa is handling this situation just fine, and doesn't need my input, here, > but I for one keep thinking things will get better at my house, and they only > get worse. My Mom is in the hospital again, and must be spoon-fed, and my > husband had five by-pass heart surgery on Friday and must have sitters round > the clock, but the good news is that my little granddaughter who almost died > several times since she was born at only 2 1/2 pounds, on July 9th, is doing > well, and may get to come home soon. > > I am writing this at midnight, because I probably won't have time to read my > email again for a while. But just want you to know that things like putting > notices on the website, may sound simple, but real life situations make it > impossible to even think about doing it at this time. > > Julia > > > ==== HANCOCK Mailing List ==== > This is a closed list. This means that unless > you are subscribed to the list, you can't post > messages. >

Bonnie; Didn't we 'talk'...your families are Springfield ? Alicia

Hello all you HANCOCKS. I enjoy the interplay with the 'service above self' commitee...it is indeed gratifying to see so many dedicated volunteers in our Hancock lines. Thanks to one and all. Can I beg you pardon and ask whether or not ANYONE has seen hide nor hair of my MASS William HAncock (da1841) and his crowd? I have been working backward via the Parham and Butcher lines..(wives) and have George W Butcher in Clinton twp, Decatur Co, IN and his son, my line. I have them b in VA..where? no one knows. 1. WILLIAM HANCOCK of Stoughton and Buxton areas-- enlisted there in RW times. 2. son John G. Hancock and ANIS TURPIN, d/o Francis TURPIN , RW patriot 3. Francis Hancock and Elizabeth POOR Hancock KY Census: 1800 and 1810 - with "Anny"Hancock -- Garrard Co KY 1820 - , no" Anny", IN 1880 census Mt Vernon, Posey Co, IN 4. son John Hancock m Emeline Monette Parham of PA 5. katherine Elizabeth Hancock m Joseph MATTINGLY St Louis MO 6. Monette Katherine Mattingly m -- TARBELL (info is from 1907 DAR app ) 4. dau Sadona Hancock (mine) (ba1808KY -1895 IN) m 1.1838 John H Brown and 2. 1840 WILLIAM BUTCHER, widower, in Decatur Co, IN 5 John Bryant Butcher b 1843m Sarah jane Thomas, Howard Co, IN . 6. Angie Monette Butcher b 1880 m Charles Hal Dayhuff Sr. 1905 Howard Co, IN 7 Charles Hal Dayhuff Jr m Marian Weaver PERRY of Chevy Chase, MD down to me and mine. 8. Alicia (Dayhuff)

As the Hancock List gedcoms have mistakes that even those who have submitted them feel, I think this may show it is better to have them posted with their 'warts' than to not have anything. They are much like Ancestral File or the pedigree Resource Files which you are to use with a grain of salt as a 'map' to help you search for your ancestor and are not listed as being perfect. If anyone who is "perfect" in their research disagrees with these tools being used, don't use them and ignore them. Helene ==================================================================== "THE PUSH BUTTON APPROACH," by Michael John Neill ==================================================================== FOREWARNED I write this article at my own peril. Some readers may become convinced that I am an anti-technology Luddite who carves these articles in stone by the light of a fire. I do not, nor do I haul the articles to the editor in a donkey-driven cart. Be warned: this column is filled with opinion. E-mail comments are welcome, but I usually cannot respond to every note I receive. I also descend from a long line of stubborn individuals (for which I have stacks of documentation) and while it occasionally happens, I am not likely to change my mind easily. PAINTING BY NUMBERS? Many artists are not fans of paintings "created" by the "paint by number" approach. Some would say these paintings lack a certain quality, lack a certain air of originality. Great art, some maintain, cannot simply be created by filling in spaces someone else has drawn. The artist themselves must create and fill the space as they see fit. LACKING DOCUMENTATION? Those who criticize current online GEDCOM files as lacking in documentation should look at the files submitted to these group sheet exchanges. Many sheets I received during this era only had a submitter name and an address with absolutely no sources or citations. If I could contact the submitter, I may or may not be able to find where they got their information. If I could not contact the submitter I was out of luck. Remember that this took place before the Internet. The Internet is not to blame for a lack of citation and documentation. Many have been fighting the "documentation" war for years. And it does not look like the battle will end in the near future. Technology may have changed the battle landscape, but technology did not create the war. NEAT CHARTS AND FORMS Your software may do a reasonable job of creating some reports and forms. But is your software equally adept at generating a "story" from your facts and figures? Or is it simply filling in the blanks? Can software do justice to the uniqueness of your story and your family? I'm not convinced that it can. Can the history of a family be created by entering names, dates, and places into a database and clicking on "create book?" I don't think so. Many who have created family histories have spent decades of their lives in the process. In some cases, they've spent longer creating their book than they did raising their children. And they created that book the same way they raised their child: one day at a time. I tend to agree with Elizabeth Shown Mills who commented in the June 2001 National Genealogical Society Quarterly's Editor's Page that: "An awesome family history is written the same way---by the byte, note the database---one character at a time." DO "CLICK AND CREATE" BOOKS HAVE ANY PURPOSE? They do, especially if citations and sources are included. These books are one way of preserving information for future generations and preserving information is better than not preserving it at all. But bear in mind that preserving information with absolutely no sources or citations may be problematic for future researchers who use that information. And remember that "fill in the form" histories may not serve your purpose and to tend to "standardize" family history and this kind of standardization tends to make all families look homogeneous. I do know of several families that have published books consisting only of names and dates, no places. One can also use the auto-generated text as a skeleton for a book so that the drudgery of typing names and dates and places has been eliminated. But a skeleton does not a complete human nor a complete book make. And the data should be analyzed before, during, and after it has been entered into the database. Use of a genealogy database should not be only for mindless data entry. WHICH BRINGS ME TO THE CALCULATOR The longer I teach math (my real job for those who are wondering), the less enamored I am with the calculator. It serves a definite purpose in the classroom and is indispensable in certain coursework. If not used appropriately, students are left pushing buttons and end up having little real understanding or conceptual knowledge. I have encountered far too many students in my career who could "push the right buttons" but had little understanding of underlying principles. Occasionally the problem is how the calculator was used in previous coursework, but not always. The calculator may give me answers without my having to do any work. Software can easily show relationships but it is up to the user, not the computer, to validate those relationships. Pushing buttons does not equate with understanding. Merging GEDCOM files does not equate to solid research. Have I done any analysis before I merged? Have I really thought about the individuals I am "combining" into one persona? If I have thought and if I have analyzed, then merging may be appropriate. DO THE MERGING FOR ME? My program might even give me ideas of potential matches without my even having to think for myself. This option was created to minimize data entry error and to make the merging of data files easier. However, I prefer to do my thinking for myself and find that an alphabetical list of individuals in my files usually serves the same purpose. Personally, I descend from many German families that "reused" the names of children who died young and software programs always want to "merge" all these children with the same name into one person. Merging is great, but I should think before I do it. WHO'S ON FIRST, WHO'S ON SECOND, AND WHO'S DOING THE THINKING? Your genealogical software package is not designed to think for you. It is designed to manage information for you and remember all the dates, places, locations, and citations that you cannot. The thinking is supposed to be done by the user. And frankly, one of the reasons I like genealogy so much is that it does require me to think. ___________________________________________________________________ Michael John Neill, is the Course I Coordinator at the Genealogical Institute of Mid America (GIMA) held annually in Springfield, Illinois, and is also on the faculty of Carl Sandburg College in Galesburg, Illinois. Michael is the Web columnist for the FGS FORUM and is on the editorial board of the Illinois State Genealogical Society Quarterly. He conducts seminars and lectures on a wide variety of genealogical and computer topics and contributes to several genealogical publications, including Ancestry and "Genealogical Computing." You can e-mail him at: mailto:mneill@asc.csc.cc.il.us or visit his Web site at: http://www.rootdig.com/ Copyright 2001, MyFamily.com. We encourage the circulation of the Ancestry Daily News via non- profit newsletters and lists providing that you credit the author, include any copyright information (Copyright © 1998-2001, MyFamily.com Inc. and its subsidiaries.), and cite the "Ancestry Daily News" (http://www.ancestry.com/dailynews) as the source, so that others can learn about our free newsletter as well. For comments or submissions to the "Daily News," e-mail mailto:editor@ancestry-inc.com. The editorial staff regrets that it cannot respond to every e-mail or assist with personal research, but it will periodically feature letters to the editor in the "Daily News." Ancestry.com reserves the right to edit for content and clarity. ____________________________________________________________________

Julia, You make my problems seem very small. You are in my prayers. Wandra

Thanks to ignorance I sent a private message to all. My apologies. BobHop

I think that Julia, John, and especially Lisa have done a marvelous job, just setting up the website, and getting the information out there. I submitted part of Chart # 9, very early on. As information was gathered (some verified, some not) I attempteed to send corrections, but it is a very difficult task for the webmasters to make all the changes. I think the best idea is what Lisa has proposed: list the websites or locations of information for the particular chart that is listed. I have posted my information from Chart # 9 on World Connect. I haven't updated it for a while, but the URL for my New England Hancock Mellen database is: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=blueyes3