It was recently pointed out to me that the TV show Victorian Farm (which I haven't seen in NZ) shows how, by the 1880s, machinery was drastically reducing the number of ag labs needed per farm. So what did these people who had been, or would have been, ag labs do ? Seems like they became gardeners instead. My families had many "gardeners" in their ranks from 1890s or so. But it wasn't an occupation in the earlier censuses. (My 2g John Payne was one such at Highcliffe Castle and met the Kaiser when he stayed there - the K, that is, not John Payne). I've also seen on a death cert "gardener (domestic)" so some clearly defined differences between classes of gardeners. Anyone have any thoughts on this or the TV show ? What is your earliest "gardener" ?  Francis Auckland, NZ

We are receiving Victoria Farm here in Ottawa and it's very educational with lots of humour too. We have to remember that our ancestors were able to do many types of jobs and they were quite adept in finding other means of employment. If they found a job with a manor house, they were indeed lucky. Edna - Otawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Payne" <francisp@xtra.co.nz> To: <hampshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:42 AM Subject: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners It was recently pointed out to me that the TV show Victorian Farm (which I haven't seen in NZ) shows how, by the 1880s, machinery was drastically reducing the number of ag labs needed per farm. So what did these people who had been, or would have been, ag labs do ? Seems like they became gardeners instead. My families had many "gardeners" in their ranks from 1890s or so. But it wasn't an occupation in the earlier censuses. (My 2g John Payne was one such at Highcliffe Castle and met the Kaiser when he stayed there - the K, that is, not John Payne). I've also seen on a death cert "gardener (domestic)" so some clearly defined differences between classes of gardeners. Anyone have any thoughts on this or the TV show ? What is your earliest "gardener" ? Francis Auckland, NZ For FREE online parish register transcriptions and other information visit www.knightroots.co.uk. Please trim ALL messages to a minimum & remove the footer as this is added automatically at the end of all messages. Thanks To subscribe or unsubscribe please send a message to hampshire-request@rootsweb.com with the appropriate subject header.Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I haven't seen the program either being in the U.S. You are so right - unfortunately nearly all of my ancestors were ag labs - would have been nice to have had one professional in there - my grandfather became a gardener late 1800's. The other occ. that I used to see a lot is coachman and that also of course disappeared in the early 1900's. Paul ________________________________ From: Francis Payne <francisp@xtra.co.nz> To: hampshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 12:42:03 AM Subject: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners It was recently pointed out to me that the TV show Victorian Farm (which I haven't seen in NZ) shows how, by the 1880s, machinery was drastically reducing the number of ag labs needed per farm. So what did these people who had been, or would have been, ag labs do ? Seems like they became gardeners instead. My families had many "gardeners" in their ranks from 1890s or so. But it wasn't an occupation in the earlier censuses. (My 2g John Payne was one such at Highcliffe Castle and met the Kaiser when he stayed there - the K, that is, not John Payne). I've also seen on a death cert "gardener (domestic)" so some clearly defined differences between classes of gardeners. Anyone have any thoughts on this or the TV show ? What is your earliest "gardener" ? Francis Auckland, NZ For FREE online parish register transcriptions and other information visit www.knightroots.co.uk. Please trim ALL messages to a minimum & remove the footer as this is added automatically at the end of all messages. Thanks To subscribe or unsubscribe please send a message to hampshire-request@rootsweb.com with the appropriate subject header.Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, Victoria Farm is on our educational channel TV Ontario and may, at some time, be shown on PBS (public broadcasting sytem) in the U.S. I now know how to deliver a lamb or two... (;-)) Edna - Ottawa

Francis - Gardener can mean Market Gardener i.e. Growing Fruit & Veg to sell on a smaller scale then a full farm - my wife is descended from a line of these. Also remember the big estates needed more Gardener's then you might image. If you can get the series "The Victorian Kitchen Gardener". This was a TV series that was made by probably one of the last 'old' fashioned gardeners. Kevin (England)

The ag labs in my family immigrated to Aust and by then were recorded as gardeners. They purchased large parcels of land, good sandy loam, at 20 gbp per lot in 1853 and became market gardeners. These market gardens were passed down thru the generations and today their land is now residenial housing estates with the streets in the area named after my rellies. When the land was sold for the housing development, the owners would have made quite a nice profit. Cheers Rose

While looking through some parish transcripts I found recorded a Market Gardener in 1816. Hope this is of interest? Jon

Market gardening can be traced back further, see the following British History Online link which will provide more background: http://www.british-history.ac.uk/report.aspx?compid=28707 Regards Jon Baker -----Original Message----- While looking through some parish transcripts I found recorded a Market Gardener in 1816.