I think that you would have to be a real nitpicker to say there was a definite distinction between Farm and Ag labourers, so please explain your` definition of the difference. Regards Joe Austen in OZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Payne" <francisp@xtra.co.nz> To: <hampshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2009 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners Thanks for all the replies. Obviously a hierarchy amongst gardeners as there is in any other profession ! My gardeners usually came from families of ag labs, although sometimes from families of farm labourers. There's a definite distinction between ag and farm labourers. Anyone care to discuss ? Francis Auckland, NZ ----- Original Message ---- > From: Theresa Turnbull <forestpony@btinternet.com> > To: hampshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, 6 October, 2009 9:32:27 PM > Subject: Re: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners > > Hi all > My GGAunt married a William Nash in 1873, he was a gardener who went on to > become Head Gardener at Badminton House (a huge stately home) family lore > has it, that he had 15 men working under him there, there were also > gardeners boys but they apparently didn't count! > All the other "gardeners" in my lot were of the Market Gardening variety > Yours > Theresa > Hampshire, England. >

Thanks for all the replies. Obviously a hierarchy amongst gardeners as there is in any other profession ! My gardeners usually came from families of ag labs, although sometimes from families of farm labourers. There's a definite distinction between ag and farm labourers. Anyone care to discuss ? Francis Auckland, NZ   ----- Original Message ---- > From: Theresa Turnbull <forestpony@btinternet.com> > To: hampshire@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, 6 October, 2009 9:32:27 PM > Subject: Re: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners > > Hi all > My GGAunt married a William Nash in 1873, he was a gardener who went on to > become Head Gardener at Badminton House (a huge stately home) family lore > has it, that he had 15 men working under him there, there were also > gardeners boys but they apparently didn't count! > All the other "gardeners" in my lot were of the Market Gardening variety > Yours > Theresa > Hampshire, England. >

Regarding difference between Ag Lab and Farm Labourer the only thing I've noticed is that a lot of the Farm Labourers tend to be married men who are settled down - whereas my Ag Labs tend to be a mixture of both single and married people. Think a lot depends on the person writing the information down and people tending to give a grander title to the mundane job - i.e. Farm Labourer sounds better then Ag Lab. To add confusion I even have "Farm Servants" - these we have been told tend to work in or near the farm house rather then out on the fields. Kevin (England)

The ag labs in my family immigrated to Aust and by then were recorded as gardeners. They purchased large parcels of land, good sandy loam, at 20 gbp per lot in 1853 and became market gardeners. These market gardens were passed down thru the generations and today their land is now residenial housing estates with the streets in the area named after my rellies. When the land was sold for the housing development, the owners would have made quite a nice profit. Cheers Rose

Hi all My GGAunt married a William Nash in 1873, he was a gardener who went on to become Head Gardener at Badminton House (a huge stately home) family lore has it, that he had 15 men working under him there, there were also gardeners boys but they apparently didn't count! All the other "gardeners" in my lot were of the Market Gardening variety Yours Theresa Hampshire, England.

Francis - Gardener can mean Market Gardener i.e. Growing Fruit & Veg to sell on a smaller scale then a full farm - my wife is descended from a line of these. Also remember the big estates needed more Gardener's then you might image. If you can get the series "The Victorian Kitchen Gardener". This was a TV series that was made by probably one of the last 'old' fashioned gardeners. Kevin (England)

Hi, Victoria Farm is on our educational channel TV Ontario and may, at some time, be shown on PBS (public broadcasting sytem) in the U.S. I now know how to deliver a lamb or two... (;-)) Edna - Ottawa

It was recently pointed out to me that the TV show Victorian Farm (which I haven't seen in NZ) shows how, by the 1880s, machinery was drastically reducing the number of ag labs needed per farm. So what did these people who had been, or would have been, ag labs do ? Seems like they became gardeners instead. My families had many "gardeners" in their ranks from 1890s or so. But it wasn't an occupation in the earlier censuses. (My 2g John Payne was one such at Highcliffe Castle and met the Kaiser when he stayed there - the K, that is, not John Payne). I've also seen on a death cert "gardener (domestic)" so some clearly defined differences between classes of gardeners. Anyone have any thoughts on this or the TV show ? What is your earliest "gardener" ?  Francis Auckland, NZ

I haven't seen the program either being in the U.S. You are so right - unfortunately nearly all of my ancestors were ag labs - would have been nice to have had one professional in there - my grandfather became a gardener late 1800's. The other occ. that I used to see a lot is coachman and that also of course disappeared in the early 1900's. Paul ________________________________ From: Francis Payne <francisp@xtra.co.nz> To: hampshire@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 5, 2009 12:42:03 AM Subject: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners It was recently pointed out to me that the TV show Victorian Farm (which I haven't seen in NZ) shows how, by the 1880s, machinery was drastically reducing the number of ag labs needed per farm. So what did these people who had been, or would have been, ag labs do ? Seems like they became gardeners instead. My families had many "gardeners" in their ranks from 1890s or so. But it wasn't an occupation in the earlier censuses. (My 2g John Payne was one such at Highcliffe Castle and met the Kaiser when he stayed there - the K, that is, not John Payne). I've also seen on a death cert "gardener (domestic)" so some clearly defined differences between classes of gardeners. Anyone have any thoughts on this or the TV show ? What is your earliest "gardener" ? Francis Auckland, NZ For FREE online parish register transcriptions and other information visit www.knightroots.co.uk. Please trim ALL messages to a minimum & remove the footer as this is added automatically at the end of all messages. Thanks To subscribe or unsubscribe please send a message to hampshire-request@rootsweb.com with the appropriate subject header.Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

We are receiving Victoria Farm here in Ottawa and it's very educational with lots of humour too. We have to remember that our ancestors were able to do many types of jobs and they were quite adept in finding other means of employment. If they found a job with a manor house, they were indeed lucky. Edna - Otawa ----- Original Message ----- From: "Francis Payne" <francisp@xtra.co.nz> To: <hampshire@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, October 05, 2009 3:42 AM Subject: [HAM] Ag Labs & Gardeners It was recently pointed out to me that the TV show Victorian Farm (which I haven't seen in NZ) shows how, by the 1880s, machinery was drastically reducing the number of ag labs needed per farm. So what did these people who had been, or would have been, ag labs do ? Seems like they became gardeners instead. My families had many "gardeners" in their ranks from 1890s or so. But it wasn't an occupation in the earlier censuses. (My 2g John Payne was one such at Highcliffe Castle and met the Kaiser when he stayed there - the K, that is, not John Payne). I've also seen on a death cert "gardener (domestic)" so some clearly defined differences between classes of gardeners. Anyone have any thoughts on this or the TV show ? What is your earliest "gardener" ? Francis Auckland, NZ For FREE online parish register transcriptions and other information visit www.knightroots.co.uk. Please trim ALL messages to a minimum & remove the footer as this is added automatically at the end of all messages. Thanks To subscribe or unsubscribe please send a message to hampshire-request@rootsweb.com with the appropriate subject header.Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

A good site: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/Coastguards/Table.html Edna - Ottawa

Trying to find the parents of Rosina DAW who married Richard Shackle in 1802 at Alverstoke. The couple's children bapt St Thomas, Portsmouth circa 1809-1813. Same inquiry posted to IOW message board. If you are on both, sorry for the duplication. She was prob born IOW.

Jon Thanks for correcting me . Must have got carried away on previous searches for our many names over there on searches and thought it was 5 years..Oops! Still a very helpful site worth looking in case ancestors of other listers might have popped over for a few years and had family. http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/ Linda and Tony

Linda, Stephen You can actually do 10 year searches, rather than 5 Jon Baker -----Original Message----- Stephen If you go to http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/ and look under births you can do 5 year searches for your ancestors where the maiden name is entered in another column. Keep doing 5 year searches for up to 20 years or so and you should find out whether they were born there. The BMD for the IOWFHS is unique in this way and very helpful. Hope this helps,Linda and Tony For FREE online parish register transcriptions and other information visit www.knightroots.co.uk. Please trim ALL messages to a minimum & remove the footer as this is added automatically at the end of all messages. Thanks To subscribe or unsubscribe please send a message to hampshire-request@rootsweb.com with the appropriate subject header.Thanks ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to HAMPSHIRE-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Stephen If you go to http://www.isle-of-wight-fhs.co.uk/ and look under births you can do 5 year searches for your ancestors where the maiden name is entered in another column. Keep doing 5 year searches for up to 20 years or so and you should find out whether they were born there. The BMD for the IOWFHS is unique in this way and very helpful. Hope this helps,Linda and Tony

Hello, I am trying to find the parents and perhaps grandparents of my ancestor Rosina DAW who married Richard Shackle in 1802 at Alverstoke. The couple's children, at least some of them, were baptized at St Thomas, Portsmouth circa 1809-1813. Their grandson, John Alexander CREAL, b. 1850 kept the Eagle Tavern in the Isle of Wight. For that reason, and because of the many DAWs found in the IOW, I think Rosina may have been born on IOW or had ancestors from there before moving to the mainland. I have posted this same inquiry to the IOW message board. Some of you are probably on both; sorry for the duplication in that case. Any advice will be appreciated. This is ccd to my cousin in the UK who is working on the same family, CREAL. Thanks Stephen Shafer New York

Dear list, I'm hoping someone can help. I have Benjamin Lamden and Mary Caesar marrying at Silchester on 29 Nov 1804. I have been unable to trace Mary's family. Benjamin was baptised in Silchester so Mary may or may not have come from there. She does not appear in the Hampshire baptism index so may be a 'stray' from elsewhere or her first name may not be Mary. If anyone would be kind enough to check the marriage register for any additional information I would be most grateful. Peter

Re Dave's first question, and additional to Bob's fine work, Martha Reed the sister in law was born at Selborne so a search of the parish registers for baptism of Martha and her siblings and for marriage of Lucy could be lucky. Unfortunately that's a Winchester job, it seems! No idea on the second but it might be worth trying the Winchester Marriage Licence Allegations which are on line. Toby in Bristol > This is my first time of using rootsweb, can anybody help? I'm looking for information on two Bentleys. > > First, the marriage of Edward Bentley born 1813 in West Tisted. > > Second, any information at all on Edward's father, also called Edward, born about 1781 and married, I think, to Elizabeth Stevens. I have been unable to find any record of his birth and have run into a brick wall. > > Best wishes and regards, > > David Cooper

Further to my last on Ancestry there is someone who has a tree which includes this BENTLEY family and there is a marriage of his son Benjamin to an Elizabeth Ann PERRY and the parents listed are Edward BENTLEY and Lucy, so it would appear that he married a Lucy REED around 1830. I have had a look on the LDS but nothing in Hampshire for that. Bob

Hi Just a little help which may be some connection. There is an Edward Bentley b 1814 in West Tisted in the census 1814 onward a farmer of 30 Acres. he is listed as a Widower with his children Rosa 1831 Benjamin 1834 Martha 1836 and Frances 1838. Also in the 1851 there is a Martha Reed sister in law, so I presume he married a REED. As his presumed first child Rosa was b around 1831 this would give you an idea of the year of marriage. Of course this all relies on this being the right Edward BENTLEY. Hope this is of some help Bob Newell