I have always believed that the term "black Irish" meant descendants of the intermarrying between Irish and Spanish survivors of the wreck on the Coast of Ireland of the ships of the Spanish Armada. Am I wrong here? -----Original Message----- From: helen marvel [mailto:hmmarvel@alltel.net] Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:21 AM To: HAMILTON-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [HAM] Re: HAMILTON-D Digest V02 #283 Hello list. I never meant that all people refered to as Black Irish were Cherokee. I am part Irish also and pround of every bit of my heiriage. I have done indian research for about 20 years here in the old Indian Territory and we run across many things. I was only trying to explain why my grandfather was born in the Choctaw Nation. It was Choctaw land at that time and when white people came here to live they had to buy an Indian Permit which was usually #5 per year and they registered at the Agency. They was one here in now Leflore County,Ok and it was located at Kullychaha. I was fortunate in seeing this old place before it was torn down so cattle could range there. The Permit registers still exist today and some are on display at the Kerr Museum in Poteau, Ok. The Choctaws kept very good court records. The Cherokee were not the only ones that could read and write. I love the question and was proud to be able to answer it. I am sorry if the truth has offended anyone. That was not the intent. If you had been tied to a tree and whipped because you were indian you might of told them you were Black Dutch also. Helen Marvel in Ok. Part Cherokee/ and Choctaw and proud to be American ==== HAMILTON Mailing List ==== Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness http://raogk.rootsweb.com

UNSUBSCRIBE On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 10:51 AM, Bill Penrose wrote: > I have always believed that the term "black Irish" meant descendants of > the intermarrying between Irish and Spanish survivors of the wreck on > the Coast of Ireland of the ships of the Spanish Armada. Am I wrong > here? > > -----Original Message----- > From: helen marvel [mailto:hmmarvel@alltel.net] > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:21 AM > To: HAMILTON-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [HAM] Re: HAMILTON-D Digest V02 #283 > > > Hello list. I never meant that all people refered to as Black Irish were > Cherokee. I am part Irish also and pround of every bit of my heiriage. I > have done indian research for about 20 years here in the old Indian > Territory and we run across many things. I was only trying to explain > why my grandfather was born in the Choctaw Nation. It was Choctaw land > at that time and when white people came here to live they had to buy an > Indian Permit which was usually #5 per year and they registered at the > Agency. They was one here in now Leflore County,Ok and it was located at > Kullychaha. I was fortunate in seeing this old place before it was torn > down so cattle could range there. The Permit registers still exist today > and some are on display at the Kerr Museum in Poteau, Ok. The Choctaws > kept very good court records. The Cherokee were not the only ones that > could read and write. I love the question and was proud to be able to > answer it. I am sorry if the truth has offended anyone. That was not the > intent. If you had been tied to a tree and whipped because you were > indian you might of told them you were Black Dutch also. Helen Marvel > in Ok. Part Cherokee/ and Choctaw and proud to be American > > > > > ==== HAMILTON Mailing List ==== > Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness > http://raogk.rootsweb.com > > > ==== HAMILTON Mailing List ==== > Need some help getting started with irc (INTERNET RELAY CHAT)? > Try: http://home.flash.net/~gen4m/ >

I have to reply to this email because I also know that being Scotch-Irish and "Black Irish" means that I am a descendant of those Irish who bred with the survivors of the Spanish ships that were wrecked off the shores of Ireland. ----- Original Message ----- From: <marchamilton1@mac.com> To: <HAMILTON-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, September 13, 2002 8:00 AM Subject: [HAM] UNSUBSCRIBE > UNSUBSCRIBE > > On Thursday, September 12, 2002, at 10:51 AM, Bill Penrose wrote: > > > I have always believed that the term "black Irish" meant descendants of > > the intermarrying between Irish and Spanish survivors of the wreck on > > the Coast of Ireland of the ships of the Spanish Armada. Am I wrong > > here? > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: helen marvel [mailto:hmmarvel@alltel.net] > > Sent: Thursday, September 12, 2002 4:21 AM > > To: HAMILTON-L@rootsweb.com > > Subject: Re: [HAM] Re: HAMILTON-D Digest V02 #283 > > > > > > Hello list. I never meant that all people refered to as Black Irish were > > Cherokee. I am part Irish also and pround of every bit of my heiriage. I > > have done indian research for about 20 years here in the old Indian > > Territory and we run across many things. I was only trying to explain > > why my grandfather was born in the Choctaw Nation. It was Choctaw land > > at that time and when white people came here to live they had to buy an > > Indian Permit which was usually #5 per year and they registered at the > > Agency. They was one here in now Leflore County,Ok and it was located at > > Kullychaha. I was fortunate in seeing this old place before it was torn > > down so cattle could range there. The Permit registers still exist today > > and some are on display at the Kerr Museum in Poteau, Ok. The Choctaws > > kept very good court records. The Cherokee were not the only ones that > > could read and write. I love the question and was proud to be able to > > answer it. I am sorry if the truth has offended anyone. That was not the > > intent. If you had been tied to a tree and whipped because you were > > indian you might of told them you were Black Dutch also. Helen Marvel > > in Ok. Part Cherokee/ and Choctaw and proud to be American > > > > > > > > > > ==== HAMILTON Mailing List ==== > > Random Acts of Genealogical Kindness > > http://raogk.rootsweb.com > > > > > > ==== HAMILTON Mailing List ==== > > Need some help getting started with irc (INTERNET RELAY CHAT)? > > Try: http://home.flash.net/~gen4m/ > > > > > ==== HAMILTON Mailing List ==== > Clan Hamilton Society > web site: www.clanhamilton.org **NEW** > email: Secretary@clanhamilton.org > snail mail: Clan Hamilton Society, P.O.Box 71881, Charleston, SC 29415 > contact: Philip G. Dixon, secretary, sectychs@juno.com for more info!