Mary, I am not going to get into a discussion of DNA science on the list. It is wildly inappropriate, but I am willing to answer you (or anyone else) off list why females seem to be excluded on technical grounds. and what to do about it. But, I want to assure you, not only living females seem to be "excluded", but people like me who are male, not with a Hall surname but have Hall ancestry are excluded unless we can find a living cousin who can be our surrogate. I started the Davidson family DNA project almost four years ago, but until 6 months ago I was not represented in the study. My grandmother was a Davidson, but all of the lines daughtered out. It took me until 6 months ago to find someone who could be a test surrogate for me so that I could have a DNA characterization of my family line. I had to find a male living Davidson descendant of a Davidson born in 1790s to find an appropriate cousin. The DNA matched the paper trail. I am now looking for an appropriate Hall. I had hoped that after two years someone would join the study from my Hall family; however, that does not seem to have happened so I am now taking steps to find a Hall surrogate. My 4g-grandfather, Fergus Hall, born in Iredell county, NC, in 1770s was the last male Hall in my line. I cannot find a male line of Halls descended from him. However, I have just recently located a Hall descended from his father Thomas Hall of Iredell county who I hope will be joining the DNA study soon. Maybe this message may help me find someone else. Literally anyone can become involved in the study. Nel is always willing to help people find a way to participate. How to broach the objections. On this list, as in many others, the majority of the people never submit any postings; just out there hoping that someone will mention their family. We have a lot of sharing people active on this list who actually may know of your family, but need to hear from you to get them to look in their records and share data. Your family may in fact already be represented in the study but the link between you and the study participant has just not been found. john. At 12:09 PM 7/24/2007, Mary Marshall wrote: >You asked: > >PS: If we ban DNA discussions from the list, would this message not be >allowed? > >I'd like a chance to have one say, then I'll butt out. > > >Having stuck with this list and deleted most of the messages for a very long >time, I've made the following observation. It is mainly the males of this >list who are involved with DNA. Remember.females are excluded! So, when I >notice all the upheaval over DNA, it's usually male/female split. Yes, a few >females favor DNA stuff, but it is boring to those of us who have no living >male relatives who are willing to be tested. Is it that hard to figure out? >Guys can DNA all day long, but most females are stuck with the conventional >genealogical tools. WHY our DNA should be so different, I have NO clue! But, >it DOES make the female Hall feel more than discriminated against. > >Thanks for letting me say this. > >Mary Hall Marshall (just as much a Hall as the rest of you)