Does anyone out there on the list know who the father of Lois Gwinn who married Andrew Wilson in Monroe County, WV, 20 August 1805 is?

Hi John, I am VERY interested in your Gwin family! I have not been able to discover the first name of my Margaret Gwin's father as he died before the 1790 census of Burke Co, NC and his widown Debroah Gwin (unknown maiden name) is shown on that census. Margaret married Daniel England. Daniel died about 1815 in Burke Co, NC and Margaret moved with some of her children to Habersham Co, GA where she later died. Margaret was said to have been born in NC. I also don't know where her parents came to NC from. Daniel's father William England had been in NC prior to the Rev. war but I don't have proof where they came from either. Daniel and Margaret's did have a son named Richard and I always wondered if that was perhaps Margaret's father's name. The 1760 replacement census for VA shows David and George Gwin in Lunenburg Co, VA and Dadvid, Henry, John, Jos'h, Josiah and Thomas Gwin in Nansemond Co, VA and James and Elizabeth Gwinn in Prince William Co, VA and a Hugh Gwynn in Stafford Co, VA , however, I think this book didn't cover all VA counties and I have a 1740 book on order Libarary of VA shows http://www.lva.lib.va.us/dlp/index.htm GRANTEE Gwinn, Richard, DATE 1 July 1780. NOTE Location: Pittsylvania County. NOTE Description: 3850 acres on both sides of Cherrystone Creek and Harpin Creek and adjoining Walton &c. NOTE Source: Land Office Grants A, 1779-1780 (v.1 & 2 p.1-685), p. 530 (Reel 42). GRANTEE Gwyn, Richard DATE 15 June 1773. NOTE Location: Pittsylvania County. NOTE Description: 335 acres on two branches of Sandy Creek of Banister river adjoining Isham Kennen's land. NOTE Source: Land Office Patents No. 41, 1772-1773, p. 345 (Reel 40). GRANTEE Gwyn, Richard DATE 25 June 1780. NOTE Location: Pittsylvania County. NOTE Description: 330 acres on the branches of Sandy Creek, adjoining Kennon and Kirby. NOTE Source: Land Office Grants A, 1779-1780 (v.1 & 2 p.1-685), p. 522 (Reel 42). no Richrd's listed in the index to wills but Gwin, John DATE 1753 SOURCE Deed Book 7, 1747-1755 (Reel 7) p. 471. Inv. & Appr. rec. 15 May 1753. NOTE Part of index to Princess Anne County Wills and Administrations (1691-1800) and Gwin, John DATE 1740 SOURCE Deed Book 5, 1735-1740 (Reel 5) p. 466. Accounts rec. 2 Apr. 1740. NOTE Part of index to Princess Anne County Wills and Administrations (1691-1800) and Gwin, John DATE 1728 SOURCE Deeds & Wills No. 4, 1724-1735 (Reel 4) p. 171. Will pro. 1 May 1728. NOTE Part of index to Princess Anne County Wills and Administrations (1691-1800) and Gwin, Joseph DATE 1777 SOURCE Chesterfield Order Book 6, p. 129. His orphan, Joseph Gwin, to be bound out by the Churchwardens of Dale Parish, 4 April 1777. NOTE Part of index to Chesterfield County Wills and Administrations (1754-1800) and Gwyn, Thomas DATE 1788 SOURCE Will Book 1, 1784-1800 (Reel 19) p. 14a-15. Will pro. 25 Feb 1788. p. 18a-19a. Inv. & Appr. rec. 20 Jan 1789. NOTE Part of index to Norfolk Wills and Administrations (1784 - 1800) then in the Virginial Genealogical Society Quarterly Name Series Volume Chapter Section Richard Gwin XXIX 3 01-AUG-1991 Albemarle County, Virginia Court Orders, 1744/45 - 1748 June Term 1748 - August Term 1748 Richard Gwin XXX 3 01-AUG-1992 Virginia Land Patent Book 29 Albermarle Co, VA 1749 neighbor of Joseph Adcock Richard Gwin XXXII 1 01-FEB-1994 Virginia Land Patent Book 32 Albermarle Co, VA 1754 neighbor of Col. John Bolling Richard Gwin XXXII 2 01-MAY-1994 Virginia Land Patent Book 33 Albermarle Co, VA 1756 his own patent Any connections? Audrey Orlando, FL In a message dated 03/26/2003 5:01:34 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: > X-Message: #1 > Date: Tue, 25 Mar 2003 08:35:22 -0700 > From: John Gwin <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Message-Id: <[email protected]> > Subject: Richard Gwin in Jamestown > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit > > I've wondered for years how my uncle James learned that our ancestors > went back to Richard Gwin and Sarah Chesley in Jamestown, VA, then > through their son, Isham Gwin, who married a Ms. Cleveland, and finally > to their less elusive and much more traceable son John Gwin who in 1812 > married Jane Walker in Blount Co., TN and moved to Dallas Co., Alabama, > where the family thrived for several generations. > > Well, no. Uncle James said he got this information from the "Abridged > Compendium of American Genealogy, Vol. I, p. 706", but I was never able > to find this set to discover how THEY learned the information. Then > recently I discovered the complete seven-volume set of ACAG (in my local > library!) and read the entire entry myself. > > Now I can see the source of the article's information as none other than > Champe Carter McCulloch--former CSA major, mayor of Waco, TX, and > passionate family historian who submitted the article to the ACOAG. > Champe had married Emma Basset, daughter of Sarah Gwin Basset (Sarah > lived with Champe and Emma for years), who was the daughter of John Gwin > HIMSELF. > > This information is now much more credible to me, then, since John Gwin > HIMSELF was still alive for a full ten years after his granddaughter > Emma married Champe. I imagine that the wealthy Champe and Emma often > wrote letters to John (who, though illiterate, was always around family > members back in Dallas County, AL, who could read and write), probably > even occasionally traveling by railroad to visit him and other > realatives in Cahaba and/or Wilsonville. > > I believe this information was memorized and passed down by Richard's > illiterate grandson, John Gwin! Everyone knows that illiterate yet > nonetheless brilliant people use their incredible powers of memory to > record such information in their minds, making it accessible to later > generations by word of mouth. > > Having established to my own satisfaction, then, the validity of Uncle > James claim that John Gwin was the grandson of Richard and son of Isham, > I am now ready to ask others with more enthusiasm to assist me in > finding out more about Richard. > > I have already added a bit more information to my collection. I > recently saw for the first time Richard and Sarah in an LDS IGI > microfiche file at our local Family History Center. I wasn't sure how > to read the documentation or even if there was any; nevertheless, three > new possibly-documented pieces of data were added for me: > > (1) Richard was--again, all allegedly--born ca. 1748 in Jamestown, James > City Co., VA; > (2) he married Sarah Chesley ca. 1773 in Jamestown, James City Co., VA; > and > (3) she was born there ca.1755. > > If any reader has other clues or documentation or can get me started in > the right direction, please notify me--and thanks! > > In Jesus, > John > (Complete contact information follows in signature.) >

I've wondered for years how my uncle James learned that our ancestors went back to Richard Gwin and Sarah Chesley in Jamestown, VA, then through their son, Isham Gwin, who married a Ms. Cleveland, and finally to their less elusive and much more traceable son John Gwin who in 1812 married Jane Walker in Blount Co., TN and moved to Dallas Co., Alabama, where the family thrived for several generations. Well, no. Uncle James said he got this information from the "Abridged Compendium of American Genealogy, Vol. I, p. 706", but I was never able to find this set to discover how THEY learned the information. Then recently I discovered the complete seven-volume set of ACAG (in my local library!) and read the entire entry myself. Now I can see the source of the article's information as none other than Champe Carter McCulloch--former CSA major, mayor of Waco, TX, and passionate family historian who submitted the article to the ACOAG. Champe had married Emma Basset, daughter of Sarah Gwin Basset (Sarah lived with Champe and Emma for years), who was the daughter of John Gwin HIMSELF. This information is now much more credible to me, then, since John Gwin HIMSELF was still alive for a full ten years after his granddaughter Emma married Champe. I imagine that the wealthy Champe and Emma often wrote letters to John (who, though illiterate, was always around family members back in Dallas County, AL, who could read and write), probably even occasionally traveling by railroad to visit him and other realatives in Cahaba and/or Wilsonville. I believe this information was memorized and passed down by Richard's illiterate grandson, John Gwin! Everyone knows that illiterate yet nonetheless brilliant people use their incredible powers of memory to record such information in their minds, making it accessible to later generations by word of mouth. Having established to my own satisfaction, then, the validity of Uncle James claim that John Gwin was the grandson of Richard and son of Isham, I am now ready to ask others with more enthusiasm to assist me in finding out more about Richard. I have already added a bit more information to my collection. I recently saw for the first time Richard and Sarah in an LDS IGI microfiche file at our local Family History Center. I wasn't sure how to read the documentation or even if there was any; nevertheless, three new possibly-documented pieces of data were added for me: (1) Richard was--again, all allegedly--born ca. 1748 in Jamestown, James City Co., VA; (2) he married Sarah Chesley ca. 1773 in Jamestown, James City Co., VA; and (3) she was born there ca.1755. If any reader has other clues or documentation or can get me started in the right direction, please notify me--and thanks! In Jesus, John (Complete contact information follows in signature.) ======================================================== John M. Gwin e.mail: [email protected] Snail Mail Address: 1845 Anderson Drive, Las Cruces, NM 88001 USA Telephone: (505) 522-2171 Netscape/AOL Instant Messenger Screen Name: Zianib GENEALOGY Home Page: http://www.zianet.com/jmcdgwin/genealogyhomepage.htm Nib Collection: http://www.zianet.com/jmcdgwin How to know God personally (No kidding!): www.gospelcom.net/navs/navinfo/resources/bridge/bridge.htm ========================================================

Thanks so much. My Andrew Guinn/Gwin says he was born in Buncombe, but he married the Ricketts/Burgess family out of Burke Co. Andrew's first son is Samuel, his second was Andrew and his third was George. I have always been curious about Margaret. My Guinn/Gwin family moved with the Ricketts, Burgess, Medaris to Union Co GA by 1850. Pam Kincaid

Hello all, Below are listed some previously unpublished tax records from 1793-1838 Burke Co, NC. (Mostly unpublished-credit given where record is published). Many are missing or incomplete and many are in such poor shape that they are illegible. I know the connection between the England's and the Gwin's (though I don't know the name of Margaret Gwinn England's father and sure would love to. Can anyone help me on that one?) I'm told that the England's and the Kell's were closely related but I don't know how...help anyone? I don't know the relationship of the Capehart's to the England's but Daniel and Margaret England's dtr, Deborah is named as Deborah Capehart in Daniel's will. Deborah was born about 1798 and married my Reuben M. Ross in 1817. If she was married before, she'd have sure been young.....anyone know? Also looking for the relationship on Thomas and John Denton to each other and to my Joseph Denton....and the relationship of John, Dennis and George Ross to my Benjamin Ross. Any help............. Audrey Fetterhoff Now on to those tax records: 1793 Adam's company (present eastern McDowell county) William England (Huggins II:129) 1794 Henry Wood's company (near Morganton) Samuel Gwin John Gwin Robert Kell Daniell England Joseph England Samuell England 1796 lists are in bad condition and incomplete 1796 Benjamin Brittain's company (near Morganton) (Huggins IV:118) John Kell Thomas Kell, Jr Thomas Kell, Sr Joseph England, Sr Samuel England 1796 Henry Highland's company (NE of Morganton) (Huggins IV:117) Joseph England illegible England 1797 Thomas Hephill's company (present western McDowell county) Wm. Englind, Junr (Huggins IV:120) Wm. Englind, Sr 1798 England's company Thomas England William England 1802 Joseph England's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1802 James Young's company (near Morganton) Joseph England, Captn Joseph England, postrider Leonard Capehart Frederick Capehart Jain England, widow John England Samuel Gwin Tho Kell Richard England Daniel England 1802 John Hall's company (western Burke county) Benjamin Ross 1802 Henry Miller's company (S of Morganton) William England 1803 Carother's company (western McDowell county) William England, Senr William England, Junr 1803 D. Chester's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1803 James Young's company (near Morganton) Leonard Capehart Richard England Nathaniel Gwin Samuel Gwin Jain England, wd Joseph England, P.R. John England, son of Daniel Daniel England Tho Capehart 1803 Hall's company (western Burke Co) Benjamin Ross 1803 H. Miller's company (S of Morganton) William Englant 1804 Dysart's company (wsetern Burke Co) Benjn Ross John Frizell 1804 James Young's company (near Morganton) Richard England Samuel Gwine Nathan Gwine Jean England, widow Joseph England, jr Richard England Daniel England 1804 H. Miller's company (S or Morganton) William Englant 1804 D. Chester's company Thoams England 1805 James Dysart's company (western Burke county) John Frizel Benjemen Ross 1805 Miller's company (S of Morganton) William Englant 1805 Capt Pravard's(Brevard) company (McDowell county) William England, Sinar William England, junner John England 1805 Capt Johnson's company (near Morganton) Joseph England, miller Joseph England, Capt Daniel England Richard England 1805 David Chester's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1805 Capt Jones' Old company (present Mitchell county) John England, Junr Thomas England 1805- no Capehart, Guinn, Kell, or Denton on Burke county tax lists 1806 Dysart's company (western Burke county) No Ross or Frizzell 1806 Miller's company (S of Morganton) William England 1806 David Chester's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1807 James Dysart's company (Western Burke co) Ben Ross John Frizle 1807 Thomas Baker's company (Mitchell county) John Englent 1807 Johnston's Old company (near Morganton) Joseph England Samuel England Richard England Daniel England 1807 Miller's company (S of Morganton) William England 1807 John Tipp's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1807 Merritt Burgin's company (McDowell county) John England Wm England, snr Wm England, junr 1808 John Tip's company (NE of Morganton) Thoams England 1808 James Dysart's company (western Burke) Benjamin Ross John Frizzell 1808 Phillip Brittain's company (S of Morganton) William England 1808 Beach's company (NE of Morganton) Fredrick Capehart Richard England Daniel England Thos Capehart 1808 Wite's & Baker's companies (Mitchell county) Joshua England John England Joseph England Thomas England 1808 Burgin's company (McDowell county) John England Wm England, siner Wm England, jun 1809 Merritt Burgin's company (McDowell county) William England John England William England, Sr 1809 John Tipp's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1809 Dysard's company (western Burke) No Ross or Frizzell 1809 Elijah Beach's company (NE of Morganton) Wm England 1809 Brittain's company (S of Morganton) No England 1810 William Duckworth's company (near Morganton) Samuel Guin 1814 Poteet's company (S of Morganton) Thomas Denton John Denton William England 1814 William Duckworth's company (near Morganton) Benjemen Ross Daniel England Richard England 1814 Pitmon's company (Mitchell county) no England's 1814 Hemphill's company (McDowell county) William England 1815 Martin Kibler's company (near Morganton) Daniel England Reuben M. Ross Richard England Thomas England 1815 Thomas Hemphill's company (McDowell county) John Ross (anyone know of John and George Ross?) George Ross William England 1815 Huffman's company (S of morganton) John Denton William England Thomas Denton 1815 McKinsey's company Margaret Frisel 1815- no Capehart, Guinn, or Kell on Burke co tax lists 1815 Pitman's company (Mitchell county) No England's 1816 Huffman's company (S of Morganton) John Denton William England 1816 James Askew's company (western Burke) Marget Frizzle no Ross 1816 John M. Kibler's company (near Morganton) Richard England Joseph England, jnr Andrew England Daniel England Reuben M. Ross 1816 James Dysert's company (western Burke) Ross Reuben 1816 Burgin's company (McDowell county) George Ross William England 1817 Alney Burgin's company (McDowell county) George Ross William England John Ross 1817 Duckworth's company (near Morganton) England Andrew England Enoch England Enoch England Joseph Ross Benjemen Ross Reuben M. 1817 Hall's company (western Burke) Joseph Ingland peggey Frizel widow 1817 Huffman's company (S of Morganton) Thomas Denton William England 1817 Perkin's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England 1818 Burgin's company (McDoewll county) John Ross no England's 1818 Huffman's company (S of Morganton) William England Thomas Denton John Denton 1818 Jesse Hall's company (western Burke) John Guinn Margaret Frizzel widow 1818 Duckworth's company (near Morganton) Reuben M. Ross Benjamin Ross Richard England andr England 1818 Kincaid's company (NE of Morganton) No England's 1819 Burgin's company (McDowell county) William England Dennis Ross George Ross 1819 Duckworth's company (near Morganton) Benjamin Ross Rhueben M. Ross Elisha England Richard England Margaret England Andrew England 1819 Hoffman's company (S of Morganton) Joseph England William England 1819 Kincaid's company (NE of Morganton) Thomas England Enoch England 1822 Burgin's company (McDowell county) William England 1824 J. Hall's company (western Burke) Frisle, Jason Frisle, Margaret 1824 W. Dixon's company (Avery/Mitchel counties) Ezekiel England 1826 R. Erwin's company (near Morganton) Denton, Joseph England, Andrew England, Jane 1826 Winkler's company (NE of Morganton) Ezekiel England 1830 Elias A Hooper's company (town of Morganton) Denton, Peter Denton, Anderson 1830 Hoo's company (NE of Morganton) No England's 1830 McEntire's company (McDowell county) Dennis Ross No England's 1835 Burgin's company (McDowell county) No England or Ross 1835 Town of Morganton Denton, Anderson Denton, Peter 1835 Kincaid's company (NE of Morganton) No England's 1836 Town company very faint 1838 Town district Denton, Peter Denton, Anderson 1838 South Fork district very faint south of Morganton

Here is some info I found at my library. This isn't my line but I copied the info in case anyone is needing it. Cabell County Tax List 1810(compiled by: Sigus Olafson) This tax list was in "Cabell County [W} Virginia Abstracts of Deed Book II, 1814-1819" by Carrie Eldridge John Guin 1 free white male 21 and over; 0 slaves; 0 horses 1815 Cabell tax list(this is online on Cabell Genweb site) Gwinn, Andrew 1male over 16 years old; 0 slaves; 2 horses; 6 cattle 1820 Cabell Cty, VA(now WV) census Andrew Guynn 1male 16-26, 1female 16-26, 1 female over 45 "Cabell County [W} Virginia Abstracts of Deed Book I, 1808-1814" by Carrie Eldridge page 381, 25 Apr 1812 indenture William Jordan and wife Blencly to the heirs of John Guin decd., 89 acres bounded by Widow Sander’s line and Pleasant’s line. Wit: John Barner, Lawrence Briant(Bryant) "Cabell County [W} Virginia Abstracts of Deed Book II, 1814-1819" by Carrie Eldridge page 238, 26 Nov 1816 indenture John Martin and wife Elizabeth to Andrew Quinn, 25 a. on Mud River, heir to John Quinn, dec’d. Clk. Js "Cabell County [W} Virginia Abstracts of Deed Book III, 1819-1824" by Carrie Eldridge page 310, 27 Nov 1820 John Griffith and wife Mary to Andrew Gwinn tract from estate of John Gwinn. Justices: William Fullerton, Thomas Killgore. ccc JS "Cabell County [W} Virginia Marriages 1809-1850" by Carrie Eldridge Guin, Ann Sampson Sanders 29 Apr 1821 Guinn, Andrew Rachael Harshbarger 19 Feb 1827 Guinn, Betsy John Martin 19 Aug 1815 Guinn, Polly John Griffith 4 Apr 1819 Guinn, John Hetty F. Kilgore 16 Oct 1849 MC "History of the Great Kanawha Valley" Volume 2 (note: I forgot to copy the author) There is a bio on Henry Gwinn, s/o Andrew Gwinn that states Andrew "was born in the Shenandoah valley, July 15, 1794, being of Irish descent. He came to Cabell county in 1810...." I’ll be happy to send a copy of this bio to anyone interested. Hope this helps....Debi _________________________________________________________________ Send and receive Hotmail on your mobile device: http://mobile.msn.com

Ron, Stir the soup! Since we are speculating. To some researchers, Robert Gwin Sr. father--was another Robert Gwin. And since Nell is said to be both daughter & sister and maybe even a wife of Robert Sr. [below]. Since we are speculating on dates too, could Nell be the wife of the other (father) Robert and that would make Nell--Robert Gwin Sr. his mother. Cleek would then be right, but I doubt it. (Witnesses summoned to testify to character of Nell Guin.) What does 'character' encompass? [Dictionary: All those qualities that make a person. . .,a person's moral nature, moral strength, a noticeable or eccentric person, etc.] Maybe Nell needed some [ah] help! Therefore, we speculate, Robert Gwin Sr. mother could be born about 1700 [somewhere in this world] and be about 46 to 50 years old in 1746 for the trial. Robert Sr. would be about 26 to 30 years old, with David, Samuel, James, [& who knows] born, and Joseph, Agnes, Robert,Jr. and others to be born later! Just a thought. Remember, just speculating. Harry ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, March 27, 2002 7:32 PM Subject: Speculation on the Wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture > This is mere speculation, but I thought that I would throw this out on the > Gwin, Kincaid and Lockridge lists to see your reaction. As many of you know, > G. W. Cleek in his Early Western Augusta Pioneers states that Robert Gwin of > the Calfpasture was married to Jean Kincaid, daughter of David Kincaid (or > Kinkead) of Albemarle County. The problem is no one has been able to prove > the existence of this Jean. Jean is also supposed to be a sister of an > Isabella Kincaid who married James Lockridge. But James Lockridge is a much > older man and the timelines just do not work out. In addition, David > Kincaid's will does not mention either a Jean or an Isabella. So ... we have > all been looking for a Jean without much success. > > Mr. Cleek also states that Robert had two daughters, Agnes Gwinn (who married > William Lockridge) and Nell Gwin > > This evening, I was taking another look at Holly Wanless Cochran's excellent > Gwin website (http://www.riverduck.com/genealogy/gwin/index.html) when > another thought occured to me. (Holly I hope you don't mind me quoting from > your website.) > > Holly raises the possibility that Nell Gwin is a sister of Robert Gwin, Sr. > To quote: > > "[Cleek p.96] says she was a dau. of Robert. However, the dates don't make > sense for this - she's more of an age to be his sister. > > Katrin Queen, 10th December, 1746, examined before justices charged with > stealing a silver plate belonging to David Kinked and Winefer Kinked, his > wife. Witnesses summoned to testify to character of Nell Guin. To be > summoned: Margaret Gay, Patrick McDonald and Mary, his wife, and Elizabeth > Thompson. Bond by John Tillery, of Albemarle County, bricklayer. David > Kinked, of said county, joyner, and William Wright, of Augusta, farmer. John > Tillery. [Chalkley vol 1, p.431] > > If Robert Gwin did marry Jean Kincaid, and Nell is his daughter, then David & > Winnefred Kinkead may be Nell's grandparents. But if Nell is involved in a > trial in 1746, doesn't that means she's an adult, i.e. born before 1725 or > so? Then she could not be Robert's daughter after all. Note Katrin/Catherine > Queen has an extensive history of petty crime in Chalkley and was finally > ordered to leave the county. I still wonder if Queen is a corruption of > Guinn..." > > I don't know why this never occured to me before. Holly is correct, Nell is > the age to be his sister. But ... she is also the age to be his wife! Could > Nell Gwin be the wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture????? > > Best wishes! Ron Gwinn

My gg grandfather was married in Franklin County in 1846. My presumed ggg grandfather was married in Washington County, TN in 1787--Champ Guin. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:35 AM Subject: Re: GWIN-D Digest V02 #14 > In a message dated 4/9/2002 2:03:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > << "Sharon Wiley" <[email protected]> >> > Sharon, what county are your Guinn's from in TN? > Peggy Guinn Bowen > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, April 11, 2002 2:35 AM Subject: Re: GWIN-D Digest V02 #14 > In a message dated 4/9/2002 2:03:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > > << "Sharon Wiley" <[email protected]> >> > Sharon, what county are your Guinn's from in TN? > Peggy Guinn Bowen > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Beckie, Holly, et. al. If the October 1 date is correct, it would appear that the deed record is for Robert Gwinn, Jr. and that he was truly "selling out" and leaving Virginia for Kentucky. In a message dated 4/9/2002 11:38:15 AM Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: > Holly and listers, > > Sorry this took so long but I busted my writing wrist and had to have > surgery. > Robert Gwynn of Augusta went to Ky in 1784 "through the wilderness". > This paper lists 1st October. More about this Robert is on my webpage. > He traveled with David Kincaid who had been to this part of Ky before. > David headed along the Ohio (It states several rivers) after the game > got scarce. > > Beckie > > Holly Wanless Cochran wrote: > > > > Re "was Robert Sr's wife even named Jane/Jean, let alone Kincaid?" : > > > > There is (per the deed index) an Augusta co land deed from Robert & Jane > > Gwin to James Fulton on 15 June 1784, but I haven't seen the deed. This > > could be Robert Sr or his son Robert (wife appears to be Mary Jane > > Lockridge, referred to elsewhere as Jane). It would help if we had some > > idea of when Robert Jr. moved to Woodford co, Kentucky, so we'd know if > he > > had left Augusta by 1784. >

In a message dated 4/9/2002 2:03:27 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << "Sharon Wiley" <[email protected]> >> Sharon, what county are your Guinn's from in TN? Peggy Guinn Bowen

Hi, Sharon, Was just re-reading your family info a few minutes ago. I don't remember if I told you that my husband knew a Ward Cleek in WV. He was the manager of a lodge that my father-in-law's company owned in White Sulphur Springs, WV. The info you sent says the Cleeks in Rob's family moved to Pocahontas Co., and that is next door to Greenbriar, where White Sulphur Springs is located. I am betting that Steve knew one of your distant relatives. I think you are right - we cannot discount too much of the old oral history. If Queen is in fact a corruption of Guinn/Gwin, then it may have became a completely separate line. I have another friend who has Queen ancestors from VA. Cindy ----- Original Message ----- From: Sharon Wiley To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, April 08, 2002 9:48 AM Subject: Re: Speculation on the Wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture Here's a thought--say the name Guinn with a Scottish brogue. ?? This stuff really is a dilemma, huh? I wouldn't discount too much of Mr. Cleek's history, though. The Cleek's (a part of my husband's family) still live in the area. There is a lot of OLD oral history there. A Lillian Kinkead and Jacob Cleek still live across the road from each other in Bolar, VA. They are in their 80's. Sharon Guynn Wiley P.S. I am a southern TN Guinn and my husband's great grandmother was Nancy Gwin, daughter of Captain David Gwin. I have researched only his direct line, not the aunts, uncles, etc.

Holly and listers, Sorry this took so long but I busted my writing wrist and had to have surgery. Robert Gwynn of Augusta went to Ky in 1784 "through the wilderness". This paper lists 1st October. More about this Robert is on my webpage. He traveled with David Kincaid who had been to this part of Ky before. David headed along the Ohio (It states several rivers) after the game got scarce. Beckie Holly Wanless Cochran wrote: > > Re "was Robert Sr's wife even named Jane/Jean, let alone Kincaid?" : > > There is (per the deed index) an Augusta co land deed from Robert & Jane > Gwin to James Fulton on 15 June 1784, but I haven't seen the deed. This > could be Robert Sr or his son Robert (wife appears to be Mary Jane > Lockridge, referred to elsewhere as Jane). It would help if we had some > idea of when Robert Jr. moved to Woodford co, Kentucky, so we'd know if he > had left Augusta by 1784. >

Here's a thought--say the name Guinn with a Scottish brogue. ?? This stuff really is a dilemma, huh? I wouldn't discount too much of Mr. Cleek's history, though. The Cleek's (a part of my husband's family) still live in the area. There is a lot of OLD oral history there. A Lillian Kinkead and Jacob Cleek still live across the road from each other in Bolar, VA. They are in their 80's. Sharon Guynn Wiley P.S. I am a southern TN Guinn and my husband's great grandmother was Nancy Gwin, daughter of Captain David Gwin. I have researched only his direct line, not the aunts, uncles, etc. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Cindy & Steve Hartman" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, April 06, 2002 8:13 PM Subject: Re: Speculation on the Wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture > Ron, > I just came across a will I had forgotten I had. This is in Pennsylvania in 1753, but the names are familiar. This is from a line of my Guinns (an ancestor of Catherine Ann Dobson who married James Washington Guinn, son of John Guinn and Rachel Shields in Greene Co., TN). This line of my cousins says this ancestor is "Alexander Quee", but I am betting it is "Alexander Queen" - possibly the old handwriting was not easy to read, and the person transcribing did not see an "n" on the end of Queen. He gives part of his land to a son, the land adjoining "ye land of Joseph Kindca". What if that name is really Kincaid? If so, we have a Queen and Kincaid living next to each other. These could be ancestors of the Augusta Co. Queens and Kincaids. This Alexander "Quee" has a daughter named Katrin Jenkins, so she would have been Katrin Quee(n) at one time. So I think that Queen is not a variation of Guinn. > > Cindy Hartman > Katrin Queen, 10th December, 1746, examined before justices charged with > stealing a silver plate belonging to David Kinked and Winefer Kinked, his > wife. Witnesses summoned to testify to character of Nell Guin. To be > summoned: Margaret Gay, Patrick McDonald and Mary, his wife, and Elizabeth > Thompson. Bond by John Tillery, of Albemarle County, bricklayer. David > Kinked, of said county, joyner, and William Wright, of Augusta, farmer. John > Tillery. [Chalkley vol 1, p.431] > > If Robert Gwin did marry Jean Kincaid, and Nell is his daughter, then David & > Winnefred Kinkead may be Nell's grandparents. But if Nell is involved in a > trial in 1746, doesn't that means she's an adult, i.e. born before 1725 or > so? Then she could not be Robert's daughter after all. Note Katrin/Catherine > Queen has an extensive history of petty crime in Chalkley and was finally > ordered to leave the county. I still wonder if Queen is a corruption of > Guinn..." > > > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237

Ron, I just came across a will I had forgotten I had. This is in Pennsylvania in 1753, but the names are familiar. This is from a line of my Guinns (an ancestor of Catherine Ann Dobson who married James Washington Guinn, son of John Guinn and Rachel Shields in Greene Co., TN). This line of my cousins says this ancestor is "Alexander Quee", but I am betting it is "Alexander Queen" - possibly the old handwriting was not easy to read, and the person transcribing did not see an "n" on the end of Queen. He gives part of his land to a son, the land adjoining "ye land of Joseph Kindca". What if that name is really Kincaid? If so, we have a Queen and Kincaid living next to each other. These could be ancestors of the Augusta Co. Queens and Kincaids. This Alexander "Quee" has a daughter named Katrin Jenkins, so she would have been Katrin Quee(n) at one time. So I think that Queen is not a variation of Guinn. Cindy Hartman Katrin Queen, 10th December, 1746, examined before justices charged with stealing a silver plate belonging to David Kinked and Winefer Kinked, his wife. Witnesses summoned to testify to character of Nell Guin. To be summoned: Margaret Gay, Patrick McDonald and Mary, his wife, and Elizabeth Thompson. Bond by John Tillery, of Albemarle County, bricklayer. David Kinked, of said county, joyner, and William Wright, of Augusta, farmer. John Tillery. [Chalkley vol 1, p.431] If Robert Gwin did marry Jean Kincaid, and Nell is his daughter, then David & Winnefred Kinkead may be Nell's grandparents. But if Nell is involved in a trial in 1746, doesn't that means she's an adult, i.e. born before 1725 or so? Then she could not be Robert's daughter after all. Note Katrin/Catherine Queen has an extensive history of petty crime in Chalkley and was finally ordered to leave the county. I still wonder if Queen is a corruption of Guinn..."

Does anyone have any information on Neal Guinn. He's listed in Tyler County VA in the 1820 census. Dodee Guin Davis

Hi Sue-- I need to do more research on Virginia Colonial laws before I can reach a conclusion on this. However, please note that Nell Gwin is not being tried here--it is Katrin Queen who is charged with stealing the silver plate. It is not totally clear from Chalkley's abstract, but it would appear that witnesses are being called to testify to Nell Gwin's character because she may be a witness against Katrin Queen. Perhaps Katrin Queen in her defense accused Nell of stealing the silver plate, or at least being a liar. That would explain why witnesses would then be called to testify on Nell's character. Since the individuals being called appear to be friends, neighbors and possibly relatives, we can assume they were offering positive testimony in Nell's favor. Even if Nell is--let's say 10 years old in 1746--that's still borderline for her to be a daughter of Robert. That would take her birth back to 1736 and would probably mean that she was Robert's oldest child. However, there is no record of Robert, Sr. anywhere in Virginia before 1744 (at least to my knowledge). If she was much older than 10 she definitely could not be a daughter of Robert Sr. Best wishes! Ron Gwinn

This is mere speculation, but I thought that I would throw this out on the Gwin, Kincaid and Lockridge lists to see your reaction. As many of you know, G. W. Cleek in his Early Western Augusta Pioneers states that Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture was married to Jean Kincaid, daughter of David Kincaid (or Kinkead) of Albemarle County. The problem is no one has been able to prove the existence of this Jean. Jean is also supposed to be a sister of an Isabella Kincaid who married James Lockridge. But James Lockridge is a much older man and the timelines just do not work out. In addition, David Kincaid's will does not mention either a Jean or an Isabella. So ... we have all been looking for a Jean without much success. Mr. Cleek also states that Robert had two daughters, Agnes Gwinn (who married William Lockridge) and Nell Gwin This evening, I was taking another look at Holly Wanless Cochran's excellent Gwin website (http://www.riverduck.com/genealogy/gwin/index.html) when another thought occured to me. (Holly I hope you don't mind me quoting from your website.) Holly raises the possibility that Nell Gwin is a sister of Robert Gwin, Sr. To quote: "[Cleek p.96] says she was a dau. of Robert. However, the dates don't make sense for this - she's more of an age to be his sister. Katrin Queen, 10th December, 1746, examined before justices charged with stealing a silver plate belonging to David Kinked and Winefer Kinked, his wife. Witnesses summoned to testify to character of Nell Guin. To be summoned: Margaret Gay, Patrick McDonald and Mary, his wife, and Elizabeth Thompson. Bond by John Tillery, of Albemarle County, bricklayer. David Kinked, of said county, joyner, and William Wright, of Augusta, farmer. John Tillery. [Chalkley vol 1, p.431] If Robert Gwin did marry Jean Kincaid, and Nell is his daughter, then David & Winnefred Kinkead may be Nell's grandparents. But if Nell is involved in a trial in 1746, doesn't that means she's an adult, i.e. born before 1725 or so? Then she could not be Robert's daughter after all. Note Katrin/Catherine Queen has an extensive history of petty crime in Chalkley and was finally ordered to leave the county. I still wonder if Queen is a corruption of Guinn..." I don't know why this never occured to me before. Holly is correct, Nell is the age to be his sister. But ... she is also the age to be his wife! Could Nell Gwin be the wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture????? Best wishes! Ron Gwinn

This is mere speculation, but I thought that I would throw this out on the Gwin, Kincaid and Lockridge lists to see your reaction. As many of you know, G. W. Cleek in his Early Western Augusta Pioneers states that Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture was married to Jean Kincaid, daughter of David Kincaid (or Kinkead) of Albemarle County. The problem is no one has been able to prove the existence of this Jean. Jean is also supposed to be a sister of an Isabella Kincaid who married James Lockridge. But James Lockridge is a much older man and the timelines just do not work out. In addition, David Kincaid's will does not mention either a Jean or an Isabella. So ... we have all been looking for a Jean without much success. Mr. Cleek also states that Robert had two daughters, Agnes Gwinn (who married William Lockridge) and Nell Gwin This evening, I was taking another look at Holly Wanless Cochran's excellent Gwin website (http://www.riverduck.com/genealogy/gwin/index.html) when another thought occured to me. (Holly I hope you don't mind me quoting from your website.) Holly raises the possibility that Nell Gwin is a sister of Robert Gwin, Sr. To quote: "[Cleek p.96] says she was a dau. of Robert. However, the dates don't make sense for this - she's more of an age to be his sister. Katrin Queen, 10th December, 1746, examined before justices charged with stealing a silver plate belonging to David Kinked and Winefer Kinked, his wife. Witnesses summoned to testify to character of Nell Guin. To be summoned: Margaret Gay, Patrick McDonald and Mary, his wife, and Elizabeth Thompson. Bond by John Tillery, of Albemarle County, bricklayer. David Kinked, of said county, joyner, and William Wright, of Augusta, farmer. John Tillery. [Chalkley vol 1, p.431] If Robert Gwin did marry Jean Kincaid, and Nell is his daughter, then David & Winnefred Kinkead may be Nell's grandparents. But if Nell is involved in a trial in 1746, doesn't that means she's an adult, i.e. born before 1725 or so? Then she could not be Robert's daughter after all. Note Katrin/Catherine Queen has an extensive history of petty crime in Chalkley and was finally ordered to leave the county. I still wonder if Queen is a corruption of Guinn..." I don't know why this never occured to me before. Holly is correct, Nell is the age to be his sister. But ... she is also the age to be his wife! Could Nell Gwin be the wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture????? Best wishes! Ron Gwinn

Good Point. I'll continue to follow the lines as they untangle. thanks. Sue. ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2002 6:09 PM Subject: Re: Speculation on the Wife of Robert Gwin of the Calfpasture > Hi Sue-- > > I need to do more research on Virginia Colonial laws before I can reach a > conclusion on this. However, please note that Nell Gwin is not being tried > here--it is Katrin Queen who is charged with stealing the silver plate. It > is not totally clear from Chalkley's abstract, but it would appear that > witnesses are being called to testify to Nell Gwin's character because she > may be a witness against Katrin Queen. Perhaps Katrin Queen in her defense > accused Nell of stealing the silver plate, or at least being a liar. That > would explain why witnesses would then be called to testify on Nell's > character. Since the individuals being called appear to be friends, > neighbors and possibly relatives, we can assume they were offering positive > testimony in Nell's favor. > > Even if Nell is--let's say 10 years old in 1746--that's still borderline for > her to be a daughter of Robert. That would take her birth back to 1736 and > would probably mean that she was Robert's oldest child. However, there is no > record of Robert, Sr. anywhere in Virginia before 1744 (at least to my > knowledge). If she was much older than 10 she definitely could not be a > daughter of Robert Sr. > > Best wishes! Ron Gwinn > > > ============================== > To join Ancestry.com and access our 1.2 billion online genealogy records, go to: > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=571&sourceid=1237 >