Hi James, Thanks for the information about the first wife of the father of Thomas "Seagull" Green. I do not recall seeing this info before. Did you find this in a William & Mary Quarterly article? If so, which volume and page did you see this info? Do you think Thomas Green married his second wife, Martha MALONE in England before they left for Holland? I located a 1654 land grant in Lower Norfolk County, Virginia this fall while doing research in the Richmond library which mentions land granted to a Thomas Green on the western branch of the Elizabeth River. Catherine sent me a transcription of the land grant and I located it in the micro-film and we wonder if this could have been Thomas "Seagull" Green or his father's land. This location is not far from Mullberry Island where Martha Filmer's parents lived. We visited both Portsmouth and Ft. Eustace where these pioneers lived on our trip to Yorktown for the celebration on the 220th anniversary of the surrender of the British. The expert who toured us around thinks he knows where Major Henry Filmer is buried, and they are doing some exploration in the area. He thinks he may have found some graves in the area where Major Filmer is thought to have lived. Maybe we can get a DNA sample to check some day. Best Regards, Tom Green [email protected] ----- Original Message ----- From: james e. wall To: Tom Green Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:08 PM Subject: Re: William&MaryQuarterly Generation shift. Margaret WEBB is listed as the first wife of Thomas "the SEAGULL" GREEN's father Thomas, they were married in England (Bobbing Co. Kent, England and it appears she died prior to The SEAGULL's fathers departure from England for Holland. Indications are this was a Catholic family that departed England due to the religious turmoil of the times. james wall At 09:51 AM 12/18/2001 -0600, you wrote: Hi James, Yes, you are correct in that I was not aware of the first wife of the father of Thomas "Seagull" Green being Margaret WEBB. Where did you find this information? Have you seen her name on a ship's list? The WEBB name sounds very familiar, but I can't place it at this time. I have seen the maiden name of Seagull Green's mother as Martha MALONE, but I have not seen any documentation of this name. I have long thought that Seagull Green may also have had two wives and we only know about Martha FILMER, possibly his second wife. This might explain the later children born after 1700. What do you think? Would you mind if we placed our discussion on the GREEN LIST? I know that will cause a large number of messages, but there are several excellent researchers who might be able to help us solve some of these questions on the list. Best Regards, Tom Green ----- Original Message ----- From: james e. wall To: Tom Green Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:19 PM Subject: Re: William&MaryQuarterly Tom, This reads like you are not aware of the Seagull's parents. They were Thomas GREEN & 2nd wife Martha unknown (his first wife was Margaret WEBB. They were Catholics who began life in Bobbing, Co. Kent, England before they left with the Pilgrims on their now famous journey to Holland & then America. Perhaps the time inconsistencies occur due to a mix up of the Thomas GREENs? Henry FILMER came to America as a British military officer in 1635 aboard the "John & Ambrose" or John Ambrose. Graduated Cambridge 1631 w/ a MA degree and served in the Va. House of Burgess 1642 per the W&M article among other. He named the plantation "Laus Deo". He was the s/o Edward FILMER & Elizabeth ARGALL. I was aware of the Royalty tie in as the FILMERs are in WEIS' Magna Carta sureties book. Going to keep diggin on this one as I have been alerted that there are articles in the Virginia Magazine of History & Biography on the GREEN family (FILMERs too I think). That is on my must do list with the other 4000 things. All I need are several lifetimes to catch up ! james wall At 06:26 PM 12/17/2001 -0600, you wrote: Thanks James, Yes, I have seen this information, and in fact have a copy of the will of several of the sons of Seagull Green and his wife Martha Filmer. The main problem is that the dates do not match up. It is said that Thomas "Seagull" Green was born on board the ship "Speedwell" in 1635 as his parents were coming to America. I know of no proof of this date, except the ship's list that shows a Thomas Green age 24. Most of the ship's list of that day included the names of the women and children, since either the owner of the ship or someone back in England was to receive 50 acres of land in America for each person they "transported." Lets say the year is correct, then how would a man born in 1635, or even 1649 as some say, have fathered a child born in 1705, some 70 years later?? It is believed that the youngest son, the William Green that married Lucy Clay, was born in 1705, or later! On the other hand, I did find some new information on Major Henry Filmer's daughter Martha Filmer. Major Henry Filmer lived and died on Mulberry Island, where Ft. Eustas is now located, and he is said to have died there in 1671. His wife also signed a court document in 1650 saying that she was 49 years old at the time, making her birth year about 1601. A live time historian is searching for the grave of Major Henry Filmer and he took some of us on a tour of the island when we were there for the Yorktown celebration in October. I realize this is a very slim amount of information, but it does seem to give some credibility to an estimated birth year for Martha Filmer of between 1620 to 1640. As you can see, Martha Filmer Green would have been about 65 years old when her youngest son, William Green was born in 1705. I guess this is possible, but I doubt it really did happen. As you can see there are some problems with the dates in this family, to say the least! By the way, the parents of Major Henry Filmer descended from Royalty, and there is a beautiful brass plaque on there grave. His mother's brother was one of the first Royal Governors of Virginia and he captured Pocahontas and held her hostage for food supplies for the early Jamestown settlers. As you can see, this is a very interesting family and one could easily spend his life researching the various lines of the family. I hope someday to prove a connection to my William Green. Best Regards,

With all this discussion on Thomas Green's and near the NC border, am wondering if perhaps more Thomas' might have descended and migrated into NC. Have traced my lineage to a Thomas Green, b. before 1726, d. abt. 1800, Duplin Co., NC. We have reviewed three other Green lines in NC (New Hanover [Anthony, Dr. Samuel], Craven [Furnifold] and Cowan [Jeremiah] Counties) but have been unable to link to any of those. My Thomas had children Lott, John, Temperance, Sarah, and Reubin. I came from the Lott clan. Here's hoping that some of this might produce a bit of information or an idea in response. Thanks for your consideration. Bill Greene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tom Green" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, December 21, 2001 10:01 AM Subject: [GREEN] Re: William&MaryQuarterly Article on Seagull Green Family. > Hi James, > > Thanks for the information about the first wife of the father of Thomas "Seagull" Green. I do not recall seeing this info before. Did you find this in a William & Mary Quarterly article? If so, which volume and page did you see this info? Do you think Thomas Green married his second wife, Martha MALONE in England before they left for Holland? > > I located a 1654 land grant in Lower Norfolk County, Virginia this fall while doing research in the Richmond library which mentions land granted to a Thomas Green on the western branch of the Elizabeth River. Catherine sent me a transcription of the land grant and I located it in the micro-film and we wonder if this could have been Thomas "Seagull" Green or his father's land. This location is not far from Mullberry Island where Martha Filmer's parents lived. We visited both Portsmouth and Ft. Eustace where these pioneers lived on our trip to Yorktown for the celebration on the 220th anniversary of the surrender of the British. The expert who toured us around thinks he knows where Major Henry Filmer is buried, and they are doing some exploration in the area. He thinks he may have found some graves in the area where Major Filmer is thought to have lived. Maybe we can get a DNA sample to check some day. > > Best Regards, > > Tom Green > [email protected] > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: james e. wall > To: Tom Green > Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2001 1:08 PM > Subject: Re: William&MaryQuarterly > > > Generation shift. Margaret WEBB is listed as the first wife of Thomas "the SEAGULL" GREEN's father Thomas, they were married in England (Bobbing Co. Kent, England and it appears she died prior to The SEAGULL's fathers departure from England for Holland. Indications are this was a Catholic family that departed England due to the religious turmoil of the times. > > james wall > > > At 09:51 AM 12/18/2001 -0600, you wrote: > > Hi James, > > Yes, you are correct in that I was not aware of the first wife of the father of Thomas "Seagull" Green being Margaret WEBB. Where did you find this information? Have you seen her name on a ship's list? The WEBB name sounds very familiar, but I can't place it at this time. I have seen the maiden name of Seagull Green's mother as Martha MALONE, but I have not seen any documentation of this name. > > I have long thought that Seagull Green may also have had two wives and we only know about Martha FILMER, possibly his second wife. This might explain the later children born after 1700. What do you think? > > Would you mind if we placed our discussion on the GREEN LIST? I know that will cause a large number of messages, but there are several excellent researchers who might be able to help us solve some of these questions on the list. > > Best Regards, > > Tom Green > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: james e. wall > To: Tom Green > Sent: Monday, December 17, 2001 11:19 PM > Subject: Re: William&MaryQuarterly > > > > > Tom, > > > This reads like you are not aware of the Seagull's parents. They were Thomas GREEN & 2nd wife Martha unknown (his first wife was Margaret WEBB. They were Catholics who began life in Bobbing, Co. Kent, England before they left with the Pilgrims on their now famous journey to Holland & then America. Perhaps the time inconsistencies occur due to a mix up of the Thomas GREENs? > > > Henry FILMER came to America as a British military officer in 1635 aboard the "John & Ambrose" or John Ambrose. Graduated Cambridge 1631 w/ a MA degree and served in the Va. House of Burgess 1642 per the W&M article among other. He named the plantation "Laus Deo". He was the s/o Edward FILMER & Elizabeth ARGALL. I was aware of the Royalty tie in as the FILMERs are in WEIS' Magna Carta sureties book. Going to keep diggin on this one as I have been alerted that there are articles in the Virginia Magazine of History & Biography on the GREEN family (FILMERs too I think). That is on my must do list with the other 4000 things. All I need are several lifetimes to catch up ! > > > james wall > > > > > > > At 06:26 PM 12/17/2001 -0600, you wrote: > Thanks James, > > Yes, I have seen this information, and in fact have a copy of the will of several of the sons of Seagull Green and his wife Martha Filmer. The main problem is that the dates do not match up. It is said that Thomas "Seagull" Green was born on board the ship "Speedwell" in 1635 as his parents were coming to America. I know of no proof of this date, except the ship's list that shows a Thomas Green age 24. Most of the ship's list of that day included the names of the women and children, since either the owner of the ship or someone back in England was to receive 50 acres of land in America for each person they "transported." > > Lets say the year is correct, then how would a man born in 1635, or even 1649 as some say, have fathered a child born in 1705, some 70 years later?? It is believed that the youngest son, the William Green that married Lucy Clay, was born in 1705, or later! > > On the other hand, I did find some new information on Major Henry Filmer's daughter Martha Filmer. Major Henry Filmer lived and died on Mulberry Island, where Ft. Eustas is now located, and he is said to have died there in 1671. His wife also signed a court document in 1650 saying that she was 49 years old at the time, making her birth year about 1601. A live time historian is searching for the grave of Major Henry Filmer and he took some of us on a tour of the island when we were there for the Yorktown celebration in October. I realize this is a very slim amount of information, but it does seem to give some credibility to an estimated birth year for Martha Filmer of between 1620 to 1640. As you can see, Martha Filmer Green would have been about 65 years old when her youngest son, William Green was born in 1705. I guess this is possible, but I doubt it really did happen. As you can see there are some problems with the dates in this family, to say the least! > > By the way, the parents of Major Henry Filmer descended from Royalty, and there is a beautiful brass plaque on there grave. His mother's brother was one of the first Royal Governors of Virginia and he captured Pocahontas and held her hostage for food supplies for the early Jamestown settlers. > > As you can see, this is a very interesting family and one could easily spend his life researching the various lines of the family. I hope someday to prove a connection to my William Green. > > Best Regards, > > > >