Recently I read (I believe on this list) about a Ruth Hunter who was married to a Green, if memory is serving me right William, in 1763. Can anyone give me more information on her and her marriage? I'm sorry but I've lost my notes on her and I really need to get the details as I believe she ties into my family somehow. Thank you, Krys

Claire -- I don't see a Caleb, but I'm only superficially glancing at this information. It was compiled by Dr. M.M. Tousley, fourth generation of Tousleys in America, and according to the preface, he transferred his accumulated records of the family to his youngest brother M.G. Tousley, Aug. 1, 1869. It is not a published manuscript, incidently. It's typed on 8-1/2 by 14 paper and copied, with an occassionaly pencil-scratching in the margins. M.G. Tousley procured records from his cousin, Philander Green, and other connections. He evidently worked on the genealogy until about 1887, and then it sat until about 1906, when one of my husband's great-aunts rediscovered it in her quest to join the D.A.R. This is what the combined researchers have about Reuben Tousley's wife Mary Green, the daughter of Samuel Green: "[Reuben's wife] Mary Tousley (nee Green) was born in Canaan, Litchfield Co., Conn, March 25, 1788; had dark hair, dark brown eyes, fresh, nut-brown complexion, a powerful physical make-up and retained a full set of elegant natural teeth up to the time of her death. She was a Methodist in Connecticut but after removal to Ohio where her brother, Samuel Green and her nephews and nieces and intimate friends were members (Rev. A.. Green, and others, preachers, of the "Disciple" or Christian Church) she united with that church ... "Her father, Samuel Green, was born in Canaan, Conn., was a drummer in the Revolutionary War, and was held in a British prison pen from some time during the war until after peace was declared. While in the army he contracted the habit of drinking rum -- the common beverage, served with rations to the soldiers of that time; and is said traded a land warrant (probably located on the Western Reserve of Ohio) for a gallon of rum -- so little value was placed on Western "wilderness" lands by the discharged soldiers of that time. He was killed by lightning in going from the home of his son Samuel in Litchfield to his own home in Canaan; and while more perfect records are preserved of his wife, who thereafter lived with Reuben and Mary Tousley, the dates of his birth and death are lost to this record. "Her mother, Anna Green, nee Clark, was born about 1752, and after her husband's death lived in the family of Reuben and Mary Tousley about 14 years, and died of pleurisy in 1825, at 73 years of age. "...Her [Mary's I think] brothers were Samuel Jr. and William Green, and her only sister's name was Susanna "Susan." According to the genealogy, William, Samuel and Mary moved west to Medina, now Summit Co., Ohio (Norton and Copley Townships). Susan married Enos Beach of Canaan, Ct. and had 14 children: Lyman, Alvin, Samuel, harriett, Anna, Almeda, Arbula, Belinda, Caroline, Mary, Susan and two unknown. The writer had no further information. Samuel married unknown and had two sons, Leander and Frederick; m. 2 Sarah Ann Young and had Samuel, William Jr., Sarah Ann, Caroline and Mary Ann. Died of fever in Norton, Summit Co., Ohio, about 1834. Son Samuel Green became a doctor in Medina Co. m. in Norton, Sumit Co., OH, Mary Bronson. He later remarried and settled in Michigan. William Green's son Frederick married in Summit Co., Ohio, Wealthy Collier. Children were Jane, Alfred K., William Bird. William Green's son, Leander, had a daughter Louisa who married M.G. Tousley (writer of genealogy). So, if anyone out there recognizes these names, or is looking for Green's and Tousley's of Connecticut, let me know. I do have this marvelous genealogy that my husband's ancestor put together. There is, unfortunately, no source documentation listed other then brief comments here and there through the narratives, and an awful lot of "was said to ..." What makes it so wonderful, though, is the descriptions of the people, their church and social affiliations, and their business or occupation that are included in the narrative. Sandy

Mary Lou -- Well, yes, I think you do have to find, at least their primary documentation or copies of it or pieces of it, because history is very subjective and you don't know if it's all there. My grandmother used to tell wonderful stories about her father's family, namely that we were descended from Isaac Watts, the hymn writer and clergyman. From the time I was a little girl, "Joy to the World," had special significance for me. Imagine my distress when I learned that her grandfather, Jeremiah Watts, was born in 1825 and no one knew where in England he was from and that Watts are thick on the ground in England -- as well as North America. But it's just that type of thing -- the connection to someone interesting -- that might get included in a family history because the writer assumed it was true. Besides, it's always good to see the primary documentation for yourself because you might catch something another person has missed. I found a heretofore unlocated ancestor on the 1830 census by examining the document and making out his name above another name the census-taker had crossed-out, which was almost as fun as finding the last piece of the edge of a jigsaw puzzle. Sandy

Sandy, that makes sense but if you were to come across books (sm., med., or lg.) on your ancestors that others had writen would you still try to go back & verify everything in them or do a few & then take the word writen down ?? If people before us had taken the time to do the research years ago, shouldnt we believe what they wrote ??? Mary Lou Seirls@aol.com wrote: > I don't think many of us are just plucking information off the internet and > jotting it down in our books as fact. I use the information people share with > me to start ordering records -- census documents, wills, etc. But, I admit, I > do short-cut information when I'm posting to see if I can find connections > with other researchers. As you say, it takes a lot of time to write out all > the proofs and conjectures and most of us don't have that time to do it into a > void. When I posted the note about the Griffin/Green family today, I wasn't > sure anyone else was researching the family -- and as I mentioned in my > subsequent note, I discovered a great number of people are researching those > lines -- so I was simply casting out information to see what came back. > > I look at some of this e-mail as a way to introduce ourselves -- hey, this is > who I'm looking at, and this is what I'm hearing/have learned/have found out. > Do you have the same information? Where can I find more information? > Sometimes, it's as weak as where the devil do I start looking for my family, > especially with names as common as Rogers, Green, Griffin, and so on. When I'm > contacted, and when I write up my notes, I certainly keep track of the > controversies, the differing opinions, and the actual reports from census > information, wills, etc. And I share what I learn -- good or bad -- with the > others who have shared with me or who contact me later. > > And that is what has made the Internet a great tool for genealogy -- not that > someone else is doing your work for you or that you're sitting around just > sucking up information without verifying it, but because it gives you some > good ideas where to start looking, and gives you a chance to swap primary > source documentation with other researchers. > > Sandy

In a message dated 2/13/99 7:24:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, shirleyreed@earthlink.net writes: << They will have no way of knowing what is true or not. >> Since I first started online three years ago, I have consistently added the county, state, deed book, will book, probate record, bond book, marriage book, and any other proof I had. You are all probably wondering why you've never heard from me, but I have put all of my Joseph Green's (from Fauquire Co Va) info online along with proof of lineage and his service record. I have also added some deeds recorded in Richmond Co Va that were not proven to be my family, but I put them on in hopes of helping someone else. I think it would be wonderful if everyone followed this idea. Sorry, that is my sermon for the year. Joanne VaBchVa

I agree with Sandy. The information I find on the Internet and these E-mails is an invaluable tool to pinpoint new areas of research. I and the rest of the family researchers in my family have been at a brickwall for over 2 years with two of our ancestors. But thanks to some clues we recently discovered on great sites like GenWeb, Rootsweb, and the many newsletters such as this one we finally have a new area to research that looks extremely promising. Maybe we can finally find the documentation we have tried so hard and long to locate. Krys

HI! Just to add my 2 cents worth...Those of us who are trying to keep our info accurate do use the internet for 'clues' and as an access for family contacts to help with the search, on-line data postings, and even find other folks willing and helpful enough to look in their areas of residence to help another researcher with their lines....That's the beauty I've found with the internet and the other researchers I've 'met' online. However! Let us beware! Even the published books have been known to err as well as 'Documented' lineages in such reknowned groups as the DAR (Daughters of the American Revolution). We must check and recheck the info we receive and prove it out for ourselves to be true 'Genealogists'. Happy Hunting fellow lineage sleuths!**S** Carolyn

Bob, I know exactly how you feel. We have the same problem with our Kilpatrick family and I dare say lots of other families have the same problem. When you send snail mail you can always write in big letters, maybe even read, that something is theory or speculation or your opinion, but with no documentation and please don't pass it on as such. I even incorporate that if possible in the body of my information. Most lpeople don't want to bother to re-type it so let it be. Now the net is different!! I am so discouraged as I see so much just plain false info out there and even when you inform people, they don't care!! If it sounds good or is convenient, they just leave it. I really feel for future researchers. They will have no way of knowing what is true or not. Shirley

In a message dated 99-02-13 13:30:04 EST, you write: << I am thankful for the spell checker on my AOL, that way i do not get embarrassed too badly. Question? Do you have knowledge of a book by a person named LeMence or LaMance, about Greens from Rhode Island? Is it reliable and is it still in print? I have some information that quotes this person and i was wondering about it. Thanks a lot, Hi Frank, Yes, I have seen the book, and it appears to be a great book which was written in 1904 by Lora S. La Mance. The book is entitled, "The Greene Family and its Branches." This is the book that gives the story about the first Greens when the concept of last names was commenced. She tells the story about King John giving the ancient estate of Boughton to Sir Alexander in 1202 because of his support in Normandy when the King took his wife, Isabelle, who was the wife of Count de la March at the time. Sir Alexander was suppose to have been the great grandson of one of the Knights that came to England in 1066 with William the Conqueror. When last names were first required, this family adopted the name of "de Boughton" (from the estate) and later changed the last name from Sir Thomas de Boughton to Sir Thomas de Greene because of the park like estate. Many researchers do not believe this story, and have discounted the book because of the story, but I have enjoyed reading the book, and believe it gives us the best story of the very ancient times we have. I am not so concerned if the story is exactly correct. I have enough trouble getting my stories exactly correct, so I do not criticize the stories of others that were written almost 1,000 years ago! I do not know if the book is still in print, but most good libraries have a copy of the book. There is a copy in theClayton Library in Houston, Texas and the Dallas, Texas library, which is where I first read it. Hope this helps. Tom Green

I don't think many of us are just plucking information off the internet and jotting it down in our books as fact. I use the information people share with me to start ordering records -- census documents, wills, etc. But, I admit, I do short-cut information when I'm posting to see if I can find connections with other researchers. As you say, it takes a lot of time to write out all the proofs and conjectures and most of us don't have that time to do it into a void. When I posted the note about the Griffin/Green family today, I wasn't sure anyone else was researching the family -- and as I mentioned in my subsequent note, I discovered a great number of people are researching those lines -- so I was simply casting out information to see what came back. I look at some of this e-mail as a way to introduce ourselves -- hey, this is who I'm looking at, and this is what I'm hearing/have learned/have found out. Do you have the same information? Where can I find more information? Sometimes, it's as weak as where the devil do I start looking for my family, especially with names as common as Rogers, Green, Griffin, and so on. When I'm contacted, and when I write up my notes, I certainly keep track of the controversies, the differing opinions, and the actual reports from census information, wills, etc. And I share what I learn -- good or bad -- with the others who have shared with me or who contact me later. And that is what has made the Internet a great tool for genealogy -- not that someone else is doing your work for you or that you're sitting around just sucking up information without verifying it, but because it gives you some good ideas where to start looking, and gives you a chance to swap primary source documentation with other researchers. Sandy

I am looking for any information about a Mr. MILLER who married Julia Ann GREEN, possibly in the Forsyth County, Georgia area. They had a son William Russell MILLER, born 1849, and then another son Allison Woodville MILLER, born 1853. Mr. MILLER apprently died, because Julia and sons are listed with a Daniel HENDERSON in the 1860 Forsyth County, GA census. Daniel went off to fight in the Civil War and never returned. Julia and children are next found in the 1870 census of Murray Co, GA. Son William lives next door with wife Martha. Allison later married Sarah Jane STEPHENS in 1875. Does anybody have any information about Mr. MILLER who Julia Ann GREEN originally married? Take care, Robert

I thought I'd like to share with you a response to Sandy Brands messages about Ralph Griffin how theory can get translated into "Facts." Ralph is the apparent grandson of Richard Griffin and his wife Mary Green. I say apparent because while it is likely that Ralph's father Samuel was son of Richard, I'm not aware of any documentation, just that they were in the same neigbhorhood and that Samuel is of apparently right age. Similarly, whatever "the archives" show. I'm not aware of any proof that Ralph Griffin 1754-1838 married Catherine MUNSON. If there is, I'd love to have it. The theory about their marriage emerged as follows: Henrietta Hedden of Thayer, Mo. pointed out in the 1980s that the Ralph Griffin's family had certain names in common with the family of Samuel MUNSON b. 1717 Wallingford Conn., particularly the name Ruth. Samuel Munson's daughter Ruth is proven and proven to have married Benjamin Van Cleave in Rowan Co., NC. We know Samuel had a daughter Catherine baptised 1756 in Morristown, N.J. We know Ralph Griffin had a daugther Ruth. We know from tax records that in 1795 in Shelby Co., Ky., Ralph Griffin, Benjamin VanCleave and Allen Munson, son of Eliasaph Munson, the deceased brother of Ruth Munson VanCleave, are listed consecutively. And that's about all that has been proven. I passed along the theory to Diane Webb, who was working as compiler for the Munson family association. The Munson Record printed the material Diane sent them as proven fact. This included Ralph Griffin marrying Catherine munson. It also included a a theoretical daughter, Charity Munsonwho married Abraham Hedden. The Griffin-Munson marriage was then printed as fact by Marc Griffin in his Web page. When I asked marc where he got the documentation, he replied from the Munson Record and said "Surely they wouldn't have printed it without proof." They did, he did and Sandy Brands has. (who just got the theory from me last month via e-mail.) And that's how theory gets translated into "facts."

To all of those who are rolling your eyes and feel a sense of exasperation, sorry! I just did an interactive search on the Green archives, used the name "Griffin" and turned up everything I wanted to know. I can, however, share information about Ralph Griffin and Catherine Munson (much, many of you may already have), and update information on their granddaughter, Elizabeth Rogers who married Zedekiah McNew in 1835, Ripley Co., Ind. Thanks for your patience and understanding. Sandy

Tom -- You seem to be up on Virginia Greens, and I have to admit I haven't been paying attention. Prior to this, I thought the only two Greens I needed to worry about were Samuel Green of Litchfield, Ct., (Revolutionary War) and Samuel Green of Hope, NJ. Now, it seems there's another Green -- a Mary Green who married Richard Griffin. The information we have is Richard Griffin born about 1700 in Virginia, d. 1766 in Halifax Co., Va., married Mary Green. Children were Richard, Ralph, John, Samuel, Owen (b. about 1736 in Va.), William (b. Nov. 21, 1740, Bristo Parish, Prince Geo. Co, Va., d. Oct. 5, 1800 Pickens Co., SC); and Mary, b. Va. Samuel Griffin, b. about 1735, Hallifax, Va., d. Dec. 19, 1799, Chester Co., SC) m. Wilmouth ?Owens? (no further information). Their children were Ralph ("Rafe"), Wiley, Solomon, Edward and Bartholomew. Ralph was enlisted in the Revolutionary Army, Jan. 1779, Camden District; Pension No. 16389. He married Catherine Munson, of the Thomas Munson line in Wallingford, Ct. and Morristown, NJ. Ralph and Catherine migrated to Kentucky and onto Indiana, where they both died in the 1830s. Ralph Griffin, son of Samuel Griffin, b. Jan. 5, 1754, Halifax Co., Va., d. Sept. 13, 1838, Switzerland Co., Ind. His father, Samuel, b. about 1735 in Va., and died Dec. 9, 1799 in Chester Co., SC. Have you run across this Mary Green who married into the Griffin family? Sandy

Hi Folks, A site with tax and other records for VA & NC: http://www.ls.net/~newriver/nrv.htm TTYL, Fran

Since my recent information on the Cherokee line, I have learned that my great grandfather (son of those two from Oklahoma) was James Thomas Green (went by Thomas) born 1871, died 1943 in Marion, Montgomery Co. TN. Had siblings Viola, Evelyn, Bob (Bailey), maybe more. His father's name MAY have been Robert...will be more assured in a few days. jan

This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --part0_918801108_boundary Content-ID: <0_918801108@inet_out.mail.aol.com.1> Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII In a message dated 99-02-11 16:19:11 EST, Rootsquest@aol.com writes: << *************************************************** OCUPYUSHIEN CENSUS TAKER-- "I am a census taker for the City of Bufflow. Our city has groan very fast in resent years and now in 1865, it has become a hard and time consuming job to count all the peephill. There is not many that can do this work, as it is necessarie to have an ejucashun, wich a lot of person still do not have. Ahnuther atribert needed for this job is good speling for many of the peephill to be counted can harle speak inglish, let alon spel there names." Are you still wondering why you can not find your ancestors on the census? >> Hi Group, I got this from another list and though you guys might like it! I think the census taker was descendant of mine because we seem to spell about the same quality! Tom Green --part0_918801108_boundary Content-ID: <0_918801108@inet_out.mail.aol.com.2> Content-type: message/rfc822 Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit Content-disposition: inline Return-Path: <NIX-L-request@rootsweb.com> Received: from rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (rly-zb01.mail.aol.com [172.31.41.1]) by air-zb03.mail.aol.com (v56.26) with SMTP; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:19:10 -0500 Received: from bl-14.rootsweb.com (bl-14.rootsweb.com [204.212.38.30]) by rly-zb01.mx.aol.com (8.8.8/8.8.5/AOL-4.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA15580; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:19:01 -0500 (EST) Received: (from slist@localhost) by bl-14.rootsweb.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) id NAA01727; Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:06:27 -0800 (PST) Resent-Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 13:06:27 -0800 (PST) From: Rootsquest@aol.com Message-ID: <1b6c5a45.36c346c0@aol.com> Date: Thu, 11 Feb 1999 16:08:16 EST Old-To: NIX-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 236 Subject: [NIX-L] Census Takers Resent-Message-ID: <"C8hrB.A.ua.TZ0w2"@bl-14.rootsweb.com> To: NIX-L@rootsweb.com Resent-From: NIX-L@rootsweb.com Reply-To: NIX-L@rootsweb.com X-Mailing-List: <NIX-L@rootsweb.com> archive/latest/802 X-Loop: NIX-L@rootsweb.com Precedence: list Resent-Sender: NIX-L-request@rootsweb.com Mime-Version: 1.0 Content-type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII Content-transfer-encoding: 7bit The following message was taken off the Little Rootsweb List. It was distributed by Ian Patterson. I thought the Nix List would enjoy this. Kelli Smythe ***************************************************** Hope yer all like this.. :o) Census Takers--True Stories The Texas 1850 Federal Census schedule, Volume 3, written by H. Swaringen, Asst. Marshall, 23 October 1850 contains this note written by the census taker. "I certify these to be sixty-four pages and a piece of the inhabitants and done as near in accordance with my oath as I could do it. The people was hard to get along with!" *************************************************** OCUPYUSHIEN CENSUS TAKER-- "I am a census taker for the City of Bufflow. Our city has groan very fast in resent years and now in 1865, it has become a hard and time consuming job to count all the peephill. There is not many that can do this work, as it is necessarie to have an ejucashun, wich a lot of person still do not have. Ahnuther atribert needed for this job is good speling for many of the peephill to be counted can harle speak inglish, let alon spel there names." Are you still wondering why you can not find your ancestors on the census? Ian Paterson English by birth, Scot by decent, Celt by Nature http://www.staff.ncl.ac.uk/ian.paterson ==== NIX Mailing List ==== Reminder: If you change e-mail addresses, unsubscribe from the old one and subscribe again with the new one. --part0_918801108_boundary--

In a message dated 99-02-11 09:05:55 EST, you write: << Tom, Do you have any info on "Seagull" Thomas Green? I have traced his line but need info on Philmore (Filmore) who had a Lewis and William Wills who had a Lewis. >> Hi Selma, Yes, I have collected a ton of data on the Seagull Green line, but I can not document much of what I have. Regarding Filmer Green, I show that Thomas "Seagull" Green and his wife Martha Filmer had a son named Filmer Green (his name could have been Henry Filmer Green) born about 1700 who married Mary Walker, probably the sister of Thomas Walker who was the husband of Mary Green, the sister of Filmer Green. I have very little on the children of Filmer and Mary Walker Green, but the names of their children: Elizabeth, Ann, Mary, Filmer, Edmund, and Susannah Green. This may confuse the issue, but I show that William Wills Green born about 1730 was the son of Col. Abraham Green, born about 1705 who first married Elizabeth Cowles, then married Ann Blunt Nicholson on October 9, 1758. Col. Abraham Green was a son of Seagull Green and a brother of Filmer Green. I show that William Wills Green was first married to Martha Clarke and then married Mary Martha Archer. One of his sons was named Col. Lewis Green born June 8, 1787 who married Ann Lewis Thorp (1801-1882). I show the had a son, Dr. William Wills Green born August 11, 1822 who married Margaret Perry. I can't vouch for any of this information, even where I obtained it??? I have been attempting to connect my William Green, born February 6, 1762 in Prince Edward County, Virginia to the Seagull Green family for some years, and have collected a lot of info on the family in hopes of identifying the parents of my William Green. As you probably know, many of the children and grandchildren of Thomas "Seagull" Green lived in Amelia County, Virginia, and Prince Edward County was formed from Amelia, so I have hoped this was an indication that my William Green descended from the Seagull Green family in some way. I would appreciate any information you have on this family. Best Wishes, Tom Green

Hi Sue Another really good source is the The Guild of One Name Studies, which although based in England is International with sources and publication. For more information write to The Secretary Box G 14 Charterhouse Buildings Goswell Road London EC1M 7BA England htt://www.one-name.org/intro.htm By the way if anyone is in London they can visit the Society of Genealogists Library at the above address. You do have to pay £4 per hour or £12 a day but it is such a mind of international genealogy by charging it is the only way they can maintain the records and books they hold. They are a registered Charity. Their web site is http://ww.sog.org.uk They are also holding their Fair in a larger Hall this year on 1st & 2nd May 1999, for several years, it has only been one day and so many people wanted to attend that they could only spend limited time at the fair and that was only if they were luck enough to get in because there were too many people for safety. In fact I understand 100's were turned away. Hope this is of help to someone, if not you Sue. Elizabeth Angela Guyver

Tree Tops Genealogical is not available in any of the major bookstalls/news Agents in Britain or Europe to my Knowlege. When I have asked for it when you mentioned it before Sue, no-one could trace its suppliers. Sky television only has a limited audience in Britain as well, however, the internet service may be a different story but I have never heard anyon mention using it in Society of Genealogists. They are recognised as the official Genealogy Society in the UK. Library & genealogy enquiries e-mail libbrary@sog.org.uk They support the Genealogical Research Directory (details from Lois Burlo, 737 Calle Pensamlento, Thousand Oaks, CA 91360-4839) which can be found in any Public Library which every town in England has. It is published in May each year and usually has about 150,000 Surname Search Queries. http://ww.ozemail.com.au/~grdxxx The main magazine that is on sale in every News Agent and Bookstall Shop throughout the UK each month is the Family Tree Magazine also supported by SOG. There is a computer section as well as specialised articles about old occupations and tips on how to search in new sources. There is always a listed of names begining searched for and lots more. For Western USA States including Louisiana, Arkansa, Missouri, Iowa and Minnesota info on receiving it from Mrs F Rand, 1062 North Buhach Road, Merced, CA95340 For Eastern States Mrs J Harvey, 2420 New Port Drive, Lansing, MI 48906 - 3541 I wiould be interested to hear if anyone does get any help from the Tree Top as Sue has suggested. In England records are kept much better than in the USA because they are kept both centrally and locally. And it is much the same in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, it is often forgotten that we are separate Countries and that Eire (Southern Ireland is nothing to do with the UK since 1917). Unfortunately in the rebellion of 1917 many of the Public records were burnt so are not available centrally, and you have to rely on the Parist Priest thinking you have a right to see the the records locally. Still searching for David Greene from PA born around 1920. I wonder now if David was his second name. Did anyone have a Greene relative who was in the UK during WWII (1944)? Please let me know if they did. Elizabeth Angela Guyver Eaguyver@btinternet.com