> Candy, - I think you should not post something from a document that is in error, without an explanation of the known facts; not withstanding the web manager advice. Others should not be mislead. F.G. > an erroneous age. > I was going to post their certificate on a surname web-page and asked > if I should post it but note the erroneous information. The listowner > wanted me to post it as is and let people find out on their own. > However, I have'nt decided yet. > Another note. My grandfather and great grandmother are listed on a > very large web site. The owners of the web-site have done a > tremendous amount of research. And everything they have is documented. > > Unfortunately, because of erroneously filled out records they have > some misinformation on the website. One of which is my great- > grandmothers maiden name. Please understand the people doing the web- > site have done nothing wrong they used documented information. The > documentation is what is wrong. > Therefore, I would like some opinions on how to deal with this. > Thanks. > Candy

Talking about the wedding license being messed up reminded me of my Grandmothers obituary. It was screwed up so bad we just as well of thrown it in the trash. Most of the names were misspelled and dates and places were either wrong or also misspelled. It was a real mess, and sure wouldn't help anyone researching genealogy. I have found a lot of marriage records with the wrong spelling.

Researching WILLIAM GREEN and family. He was born Abt 1750, and died Abt 1818. He married JUDY/JUDA. Family came from Patrick Co., VA that was then Henry County, VA at the time. First record in Patrick Co., VA is purchase of 400 acres in 1789. The first court was in June 1791 and several Hammons, Blanchetts, and William and Robert Green was mentioned frequently as processioning lands. Children of William Green and Judy/Juda are: i. ROBERT GREEN, b. 1770-1773, Virginia; d. 1830-1831, Randolph Co., MO; m. (1) SELAH HAMMONS, December 25, 1794, Patrick Co., VA; m. (2) RHODA SHEEKS, July 03, 1824, Wayne Co., KY. ii. REYNOLDS GREEN, b. 1780, Casswell Co., NC; d. 1848, Van Buren Co., IA; m. FRANCES HALL, July 30, 1801, Patrick Co., VA. iii. NANCY GREEN, b. Abt 1783; d. 1807-1809, Kentucky or Tennessee; m. LEROY HAMMONS, January 30, 1800, Patrick Co., VA. iv. LEWIS GREEN, b. 1785-1786, Virginia; d. 1823, Alabama; m. (1) MARGARET SMITH, January 18, 1808, Wayne Co., KY; m. (2) NANCY LLOYD, March 29, 1810, Wayne Co., KY. v. WILLIAM MONROE GREEN, b. 1793-1794, Patrick Co., VA; d. December 1870, Beaudry, Saline Co., AR; m. RUTHA LLOYD, May 16, 1816, Wayne Co., KY. Have much more information on descendants. Trying to find information on William Green and wife Judy's heritage. Thanks, Michelle Bley

In a message dated 2/14/99 2:08:01 PM Central Standard Time, GREEN-D- request@rootsweb.com writes: << If a cousin of mine has proven data, wills, b/c, m/c, etc. that are actual paper records of a proven ancestor, then copies can be shared and assumed to be factual. If however, aunt Emmy told cousin Grace that Uncle George was a relative of the President, I and each one out there would consider that hearsay, and though it may be noted, you would check it out. But, somewhere along the line, we must accept that which is historically recorded, even though it is recorded as legend. I have a Journal written by my g-gmothers Uncle recording his travels all over the western hemispheres. It is great reading and family history, but until I prove him being in those places and leaving his progeny all over the west, that's all it is, just family history. >> I should have read this before I sent my previous post so I could make one post do it - sorry bout that! I do think that its best to look for the reliable information and documentation (birth certificates, etc.) but since so much was lost during the Civil War and at other times, court houses burned, etc. sometimes all you have to go on is speculation, family legends, etc. I just try to note when i've speculated and when I have proof. Here's one to make you laugh. I've been working on my mother's line for over 15 years. Back when I started genealogy I got information on my father's line from his mother, but hadn't really pursued it actively until recently. She told me her grandfather was Homer Bray born in ARK - she was quite sure of herself. She wasnt senile or anythign at the time - so you'd think she'd know. All this time since I started this line I've been looking for Homer Bray in Arkansas, wife Lillie. I FINALLY just the other day stumbled onto a 1900 census record for DAVID Bray in Arkansas - the one I need! Maybe his middle name was Homer or it was just a nickname - I have no idea! Also turns out he was born in New Jersey! And his wife's name was Lydia! (I can see Lillie being a nickname for Lydia though). Can you stand it???? First I screamed - then I laughed. LOL!! Not to mention - I am embarrassed to say - that my grandfather's family (my mother's side) has/had a penchant for "stretching the blanket" a bit to make things more interesting. So he had lots to share with me when i started researching family history. Not a whole lot of it was true, or even possible! Now I know them - so I knew to watch out for those things, but someone unrelated would not. Dee

In a message dated 2/14/99 10:33:48 AM Central Standard Time, GREEN-D- request@rootsweb.com writes: << Sandy, that makes sense but if you were to come across books (sm., med., or lg.) on your ancestors that others had writen would you still try to go back & verify everything in them or do a few & then take the word writen down ?? If people before us had taken the time to do the research years ago, shouldnt we believe what they wrote ??? Mary Lou >> No I don't think we should just blankly believe what they wrote - every family history book I've seen has errors in it. Some just a few, some quite a lot. More methods and techniques and records are available to us now that werent available back then, so I still think it is a good idea to verify the information, unless the author has given a footnote with a reference to his documentation. then I guess it would be up to the current researcher to decide if they felt that was a reliable resource or not. I do think most of what is written is valid, but we can't just take it as fact just because we see it in print. For instance one of my other lines is the Fowler family, and there were two books written on the history of the Fowler family. One shows my ancestor's line and some other lines differently from the other book. And there seem to be alot of differences in the information reflected in the two books. So which one do you believe? I don't have either of the books at this point, so I am not sure which would be most reliable - maybe the most recently published? Still I will try to prove it out to my satisfaction. I don't think it makes sense to reinvent the wheel - that's why I am all for sharing information! Others are welcome to any information I have that they need. But you do have to be sure that the information you find - even if its printed in a book, (and as someone else pointed out - even DAR information has been known to have errors) - make sure its reliable. Dee

I have a Rebecca Jane Hunter b. 6/1811 that married Jeremiah Green b. 3/14/1810 There were married in Jan.1829 in Haywood Co. NC. I have a list of Rebecca siblens but no parents. If anyone else is working on this line and have that information I would love to have it. Thanks, LaNelda Gordon Krystine Abrao wrote: > Recently I read (I believe on this list) about a Ruth Hunter who was married > to a Green, if memory is serving me right William, in 1763. Can anyone give > me more information on her and her marriage? I'm sorry but I've lost my > notes on her and I really need to get the details as I believe she ties into > my family somehow. > Thank you, > Krys

In a message dated 99-02-14 13:16:16 EST, you write: << Ralph's marriage to Catherine is theorized. I believe it to be true for reasons you may have seen. It has been in fact picked up by the Munson Genealogy and marc Griffin's very well done Web page and seen by many people. Unfortunately, however, valid the theory, these sources have managed to entrench this as fact in many family trees I've seen. Give me a date and a place. It is proven that Ralph Griffin had a daughter Mary Griffin who married Stephen Green via Ralph's will in Jefferson Co., Ind., written in August 1838. Mary and Stephen married 1798 in Shelby Co., Ky., and moved to Indiana by 1807, probably with Ralph. Wish I could prove Stephen's father. Stephen lived 1 Mar. 1774-23 May 1849. I spent a lot of time trying to link him to Stephen Green Sr., the Rev. War soldier who died 1802 in Madison Co., Ky. Stephen Sr. had a son Stephen Jr., who unfortunately and very provably, died in 1792 (as I recall.) (And I'll spend the rest of my life probably trying to get this theory out of material that I circulated before someone set me straight.) Stephen Sr. had a wife Jamima and daughter Rhoda. My Stephen had daughters named Jamima and Rhoda. We also believe that my Stephen was brother to Frederick Green b. ca. 1782 in Virginia who came to Switzerland and Jefferson co., Ind. shortly after Stephen arrived. These names point to a relationship with Henry Green wh o left the will 1748 in Lunenburg Co. Could Frederick and Stephen have been sons of Henry's son Frederick or his son Richard? I don't know. My Stephen was bondsman when a John Green married Kitty Lewis in 1804 in Shelby Co., I don't have a clue who John is, but he could be a younger brother. >> Hi Bob, Thanks for the info. You have obviouly done far more research than I, so I would like to pick your brain (in data) on this theory. I show that Stephen Green, born March 1, 1774, who married Mary Griffin, was the son of Stephen Green, Sr., born about 1724 who married Jemima Scott, and I show that Stephen, Sr. was the son of Henry Filmer Green, born about 1704, who married Mary Elizabeth Griffin, born about 1700. I sho this Henry Filmer Green was the son of Filmer Green, born about 1662, the son of Thomas "Seagull" Green. I show that a number of this family married the children of William Griffin who died about 1751. Does any of this fit with what you have? I am attempting to find the parents of William Green born February 6, 1762 in Prince Edward County, Virginia. Since this family was formed from Amelia County, VA. I am hoping that I can identify the parents of my William Green as part of the Thomas "Seagull" Green family. Any help would be GREATLY appareciated! Tom Green

In a message dated 99-02-14 00:57:41 EST, you write: << The book by LaMance is available through Higginson Books in Salem, Mass. I believe they have a web site. Their books look like xerox copies of the original which are either soft or hard bound. They are not inexpensive. Phil Shepard >> Thanks Phil, I have a copy and am posting your message to the list in hopes that the persons interested will see the message. Tom Green

hello all, thanks for all the feed back on my reply. it certainly comes down to DOCUMENTION .... thanks again, mary lou

csproul wrote: > > hey Shirley, > I imagine we are cousins of some sort...smile.. > 53rd once removed. You shouldn't have to apologize for your opinion. Don't > worry folks > are just bored today or something....it's ok! We > should all know the basic facts of documentation. > If my folks hadn't raised me around genealogy, > I would be clueless and might take anything in > print for fact. It happens. You have done a good > deed for someone. > I do indeed wish some of the older researchers > in my particular line had been more careful to > document their sourse. I absolutely gnash my > teeth when I finally get uncle "joe" to come to > the phone and he says.."honey,...I give all that stuff > to yer dad and I don't remember anymore where > i got that stuff. Then, as I use the FHC and am a > member of the church......folks believe if a fact made it to the IGI or > ancestral files...it must be gospel. > We should have, all along, all of us tree climbers, > been better documentarians. I for one thank you > for reminding us one and all....Cynthia Green Sproul Thanks Cynthia! I needed that!! Was beginning to feel like perhaps I had broken the "llth" commandment. Shirley

In a message dated 2/14/99 3:43:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, brearry@ix.netcom.com writes: << Someone in the future may copy it Adra and forever it will continue to be recorded wrong. >> I found my great uncle's name recorded as Minor Sears, but he was known in the family as Maurice. A close reading of the original record revealed that when his birth was recorded, his name had not been chosen yet, so they recorded it as, Sears, a minor. I thought that was amusing, but since he was not my direct ancestor, I did not try to correct it. I should have.

Mjw1017@aol.com wrote: > > In a message dated 2/13/99 7:24:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, > shirleyreed@earthlink.net writes: > > << They will have no way of knowing what is true or > not. >> > > Since I first started online three years ago, I have consistently added the > county, state, deed book, will book, probate record, bond book, marriage book, > and any other proof I had. You are all probably wondering why you've never > heard from me, but I have put all of my Joseph Green's (from Fauquire Co Va) > info online along with proof of lineage and his service record. I have also > added some deeds recorded in Richmond Co Va that were not proven to be my > family, but I put them on in hopes of helping someone else. > I think it would be wonderful if everyone followed this idea. Sorry, that is > my sermon for the year. > Joanne > VaBchVa This is great!!! I know that sometimes we just can't find that document because of courthouse fires,etc. So we kind of go with the preponderance of evidence as a "THEORY" only. I have no objections to any of that. My point was agreeing with the person who originally made the complaint. If it is theory, say so, and when you pass it on, hopefully they will say so. But he apparently had an experience where this did not happen. I have had the same experience. And I feel if that person wants to put it down as fact, that's is their business I guess. But don't put it down that you got it from me as fact. That's all I was trying to say, but it seems everyone is all up in the air about it. Glad you are documenting yours. I try to do that as well and if I can't, I sure do try to let everyone know it is only a theory, a possibility. Shirley

Hi Everyone-Happy Valentine's Day! May I add that poor record keeping doesn't just exist in old record's but new one's also. My grandmother died 9-1968. Her name was Ada. After I began genealogy (which quickly turned into a passion) I decided to get record's for all family member's that I could. Much to my surprise my grandmother's death certificate has her name as Adra. A major typo to me! When I contacted Vital Record's to have it corrected, I was told I'd have to bring her birth certificate, old letter's, document's, SS# and any other paper's I could find. Not even one of her children can vouch for the correct spelling. This is easier said than done, as I live several hundred miles away, have no old paper's, at this point in time have no birth certificate for her and she never had a SS#! Because of someone's lack of attention, I will now have to do a lot of unnecessary work to correct something that should have never happened! Some of you might think this isn't a big deal but to me, it is very important to have her name correct. Someone in the future may copy it Adra and forever it will continue to be recorded wrong. Thanks for letting me share and vent... Brenda Jo

I APOLOGIZE, I APOLOGIZE, I APOLOGIZE for offending anyone. Didn't mean to guys. I agree that the internet is an invaluable tool and without it our search would take much longer. I realize none of us walks on water, we all make mistakes in our research, etc., etc. That isn't what I meant at all. Perhaps you too will run into someone who has taken a clearly marked theory of yours or someones and declared it to be fact. And when you try to remind them it is theory, not proven, they don't want to be confused with the facts. Now please everyone, I know that this doesn't happen very often. And if I remember correctly, the person who originally brought this subject up laid out a whole process whereby speculative material was passed on as fact. I merely agreed that I had seen the same thing a number of times and it kind of worried me thinking about future researchers. Not at all saying that any of you do this yourself. So please, I'm sorry!!! Shirley

Seirls@aol.com wrote: > > I don't think many of us are just plucking information off the internet and > jotting it down in our books as fact. I use the information people share with > me to start ordering records -- census documents, wills, etc. But, I admit, I > do short-cut information when I'm posting to see if I can find connections > with other researchers. As you say, it takes a lot of time to write out all > the proofs and conjectures and most of us don't have that time to do it into a > void. When I posted the note about the Griffin/Green family today, I wasn't > sure anyone else was researching the family -- and as I mentioned in my > subsequent note, I discovered a great number of people are researching those > lines -- so I was simply casting out information to see what came back. > > I look at some of this e-mail as a way to introduce ourselves -- hey, this is > who I'm looking at, and this is what I'm hearing/have learned/have found out. > Do you have the same information? Where can I find more information? > Sometimes, it's as weak as where the devil do I start looking for my family, > especially with names as common as Rogers, Green, Griffin, and so on. When I'm > contacted, and when I write up my notes, I certainly keep track of the > controversies, the differing opinions, and the actual reports from census > information, wills, etc. And I share what I learn -- good or bad -- with the > others who have shared with me or who contact me later. > > And that is what has made the Internet a great tool for genealogy -- not that > someone else is doing your work for you or that you're sitting around just > sucking up information without verifying it, but because it gives you some > good ideas where to start looking, and gives you a chance to swap primary > source documentation with other researchers. > > Sandy Thats great Sandy. That is the way it should be done. I try to do the same myself. And I udnerstand you can't put a whole documented family history down everytime you want to make a contact. I can't do that either. I am sure sorry if I offended you. I didn't mean to for sure. I just have run into some real problems and even when you very nicely try to make a correction and quote the documentaion, some people just don't want to even check it out. Sounds like you really know what you are doing and are making sure on your own. I am quite sure your family tree will be a good one. Please forgive me if I offended you, I didn't mean to. Regards, Shirley

Just wanted to get ya'lls opinion on this, since you were discussing fact or fiction. I have my grandmothers and grandfathers original marriage certificate. Unfortunately, Someone who did'nt know my grandparents personally would never guess it was them. They were both born, raised, lived and died in Eastern TN. However, for a few months in 1925 both went to NC to find work in the cotton mills. There they met and and ran off to York, SC to get married. Neither were well educated and my grandmother was underage. Therefore, they both said they were from Gastonia, NC and my grandmother gave an erroneous age. I was going to post their certificate on a surname web-page and asked if I should post it but note the erroneous information. The listowner wanted me to post it as is and let people find out on their own. However, I have'nt decided yet. Another note. My grandfather and great grandmother are listed on a very large web site. The owners of the web-site have done a tremendous amount of research. And everything they have is documented. Unfortunately, because of erroneously filled out records they have some misinformation on the website. One of which is my great- grandmothers maiden name. Please understand the people doing the web- site have done nothing wrong they used documented information. The documentation is what is wrong. Therefore, I would like some opinions on how to deal with this. Thanks. Candy

<If people before us had taken the time to do the research years ago, shouldnt we believe what they wrote ??? Mary Lou> Just a note! On another line that I research, an ancestor's marriage was recorded, misspelled,in a Kentucky Co in the early 1800's. For 30 years, I tried to PROVE who her parents were. It was also included in a 3-volume series about that misspelled family! Recently, due to some unexpected outside sources, I found that she did NOT even belong to that family, but to another, totally unrelated family......and was able to prove it with two different court documents from Kentucky. So, I agree with Sandy.....use what you find as a CLUE and prove it yourself......unless the provider also includes the source/proof! Had I not persisted......my poor gggg grandmother would have been forever tied to the erroneous family that had claimed her from a misspelled entry in the Kentucky county marriage records. Looking for Anna or Elizabeth or Anna Elizabeth or Elizabeth Ann GREEN who married William CONNOR. Lin T. altcomm@rr1.net

I know this message was written to Sandy, but for the life of me, I can't understand how anyone would take "information" and use it as fact. Facts are those things proven. If a cousin of mine has proven data, wills, b/c, m/c, etc. that are actual paper records of a proven ancestor, then copies can be shared and assumed to be factual. If however, aunt Emmy told cousin Grace that Uncle George was a relative of the President, I and each one out there would consider that hearsay, and though it may be noted, you would check it out. But, somewhere along the line, we must accept that which is historically recorded, even though it is recorded as legend. I have a Journal written by my g-gmothers Uncle recording his travels all over the western hemispheres. It is great reading and family history, but until I prove him being in those places and leaving his progeny all over the west, that's all it is, just family history. I still am trying to find my maternal grandmothers place of birth and proof of her parents. Too many GREEN's and not enough time! Sorry for the novel, but we should all be detectives. Harold Williams, Rootsweb Sponsor Mesquite, TX (Dallas suburb) willhn@flash.net -----Original Message----- From: Mary Lou Lugo <mlugo@snet.net> To: GREEN-L@rootsweb.com <GREEN-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Sunday, February 14, 1999 6:06 AM Subject: [GREEN-L] Fiction or Fact??? : Sandy, that makes sense but if you were to come across books (sm., :med., or lg.) on your ancestors that others had writen would you still try to go :back & verify everything in them or do a few & then take the word writen down ?? :If people before us had taken the time to do the research years ago, shouldnt we :believe what they wrote ??? Mary Lou : :Seirls@aol.com wrote: : :> I don't think many of us are just plucking information off the internet and :> jotting it down in our books as fact. I use the information people share with :> me to start ordering records -- census documents, wills, etc. But, I admit, I :> do short-cut information when I'm posting to see if I can find connections :> with other researchers. As you say, it takes a lot of time to write out all :> the proofs and conjectures and most of us don't have that time to do it into a :> void. When I posted the note about the Griffin/Green family today, I wasn't :> sure anyone else was researching the family -- and as I mentioned in my :> subsequent note, I discovered a great number of people are researching those :> lines -- so I was simply casting out information to see what came back. :> :> I look at some of this e-mail as a way to introduce ourselves -- hey, this is :> who I'm looking at, and this is what I'm hearing/have learned/have found out. :> Do you have the same information? Where can I find more information? :> Sometimes, it's as weak as where the devil do I start looking for my family, :> especially with names as common as Rogers, Green, Griffin, and so on. When I'm :> contacted, and when I write up my notes, I certainly keep track of the :> controversies, the differing opinions, and the actual reports from census :> information, wills, etc. And I share what I learn -- good or bad -- with the :> others who have shared with me or who contact me later. :> :> And that is what has made the Internet a great tool for genealogy -- not that :> someone else is doing your work for you or that you're sitting around just :> sucking up information without verifying it, but because it gives you some :> good ideas where to start looking, and gives you a chance to swap primary :> source documentation with other researchers. :> :> Sandy :

Shirley, Bob and all ... Well, yes, I guess I was a little testy about things yesterday, and yes, I probably overreacted, and yes, I worried about it all night and all through church, and yes, I probably need to get a life. So, I, too, apologize, but don't you think that every once in a while it's good to discuss methodology and documentation. Some of us may not be comfortable with research, some may be just beginning our quest and some may be struggling to remember the research techniques we learned in high school, college or graduate school. Sandy

At 10:50 PM 2/13/99 EST, TBGreen3@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 99-02-13 13:30:04 EST, you write: > . > Question? Do you have knowledge of a book by a person named LeMence or >LaMance, about Greens from Rhode Island? Is it reliable and is it still in >print? > > Thanks a lot, ========== >Hi Frank, > > >Yes, I have seen the book, and it appears to be a great book which was written >in 1904 by Lora S. La Mance. The book is entitled, "The Greene Family and its >Branches." >I do not know if the book is still in print, but most good libraries have a >copy of the book. > >Tom Green ========== This book is available for reprint from Higginson Book Company in Salem Massachusetts. If you can't find the internet site, please let me know and I will track it down for you. (The book is very helpful, but not always reliable given that access to records were more limited then, and that families did not always report accurately on their Greene lineage. Just the same, it has fascinating stories about the Greenes of Quidnessett.). The other problem is that it is not indexed. Groan groan. If five or more people order this book from them, they will get a 40% discount . The main problem is that it takes about 2-3 months to get the reprint that you ordered. Laura ========