I'm trying to work out what my great grandfather did in the run-up to WW1. He was a sergeant in the 1/19th Battalion 47th (2nd London) Division. As I understand it, the Division moved into France on 8th/9th March 1915. It appears that my ggf didn't go with them at that time, he embarked for France on 17th August 1915. So - if he was in the TF, doesn't that mean that he was a member of the Battalion prior to the outbreak of war? And if so, why wouldn't he embark in March 1915 with the rest of his battalion? Could he have volunteered after Kitchener issued the 'call to arms' in August 1914? And if so, wouldn't he have been in the 'New Army' and not the Territorial Force? Could he have been placed in the 1/19th if he had volunteered in August 1915? I'm confused. Malcolm

Hello Malcolm The Territorial Force carried on recruiting in parallel to the New Armies until 1916 when the Military Service Acts effectively removed the distinction between the TF and New Army. As part of the massive expansion of manpower required, TF units were authorised to start recruiting 'second line' units i.e. to duplicate themselves. This started as early as August for units where a high proportion of men had volunteered for Imperial Service. The Headquarters of the 19th London Regt received instructions to raise a second battalion late on Friday 28 August. A general order authorising all TF units to form duplicates was not issued until 21 September (Army Order 339/1914). Recruitment commenced with a public announcement on Tuesday 1 September and 'prominent placarding of the Borough from one end to the other with an attractive two-colour poster'. The call was initially for 800 'smart and active' men to add to a nucleus of at least 200 men already enrolled over the first battalion establishment. (St. Pancras Gazette 4 Sept 1914) Recruiting proceeded apace with "an instant response of over 100 new recruits" on Wednesday 2 September. A similar rate of enlistment was maintained on succeeding days. By the evening of Thursday 10 September "over 700" recruits had been enrolled. (SPG 11 Sept 1914) This had been achieved in just nine days and the success encouraged the Regiment to increase the target from 800 to 1,000 men. However, recruiting appears to have been much slower in the second week: by the evening of Thursday 17 September total enrolments had only reached 851, although by this time it was only accepting men for foreign service. (SPG 11 Sept 1914) The 1,000 mark was reached no later than 25 September - about three weeks in total - and it continued to recruit a number of men over establishment in the week after. >From my database of men who served with the 19th Londons I have the following shown as men who embarked on 17th August 1915: FLETCHER WV Pte 1887 William Victor ALLEN ER Sgt 3537 Ernest Reginald SMITH E Cpl 1691 Ernest SKINNER W Pte 2138 WOODROFFE AC Pte 2652 Arthur Charles BURGESS HJ Pte 3438 Henry J As you say that he was a sergeant I am guessing that he was 3537 Sgt Allen. If that is the case then I would say that he enlisted in the second half of Feb 1915 as No. 3530 enlisted on 18 Feb 1915 and No. 3538 enlisted on 23 Feb 1915. If this is him, he would initially have gone into the 'second line' battalion of the 19th Londons - known as 2/19th - before being transferred to the 1/19th when he was sent to France. Pre-war members of the battalion have numbers up to about 2000. Numbers higher than about 2000 are of men who enlisted on or after 4 August 1914. It would help if you could confirm name, number(s) and any other info that you have. I thought you might be interested to know that the OCA of the 19th Londons still survives. We have been on battlefield tours in both of the last 2 years and hold an annual lunch in London (9th December this year). Most of us are in fact relatives and descendents of those who served with the battalion. Please contact me if you would like to know more. Charles Fair (19th London Regiment Old Comrades Association) -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Malcolm Hulme Sent: 19 November 2006 22:13 To: GREATWAR@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREATWAR] Territorial Forces August 1914 I'm trying to work out what my great grandfather did in the run-up to WW1. He was a sergeant in the 1/19th Battalion 47th (2nd London) Division. As I understand it, the Division moved into France on 8th/9th March 1915. It appears that my ggf didn't go with them at that time, he embarked for France on 17th August 1915. So - if he was in the TF, doesn't that mean that he was a member of the Battalion prior to the outbreak of war? And if so, why wouldn't he embark in March 1915 with the rest of his battalion? Could he have volunteered after Kitchener issued the 'call to arms' in August 1914? And if so, wouldn't he have been in the 'New Army' and not the Territorial Force? Could he have been placed in the 1/19th if he had volunteered in August 1915? I'm confused. Malcolm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message