On Tue, 26 Jun 2007 18:48:39 +0100, "Peter Appleton" <peter.appleton3@ntlworld.com> wrote: >I've always assumed that my grandfather was a bandsman in the 4th Yorks (in >a photo dateable to 1918 he is wearing a bandsman's badge). But in a photo >dated to 1913, shortly after he attested into the Territorial Force, he is >wearing a badge that comprises crossed fanfare trumpets, bell-ends uppermost >and intertwined in an Irish harp all surmounted by a crown. The crossed trumpets, harp and crown badge is the badge for a Bandsman which was introduced in the 1870s. The Bandsman's badge was revised to the better-known lyre, wreath and crown badge in the late 1880s to early 1890s. However the original badge lived on for a while, and some units were still wearing it at the outbreak of the war. The badge for Trumpeter was different, and was either the more common plain crossed trumpets (with bells up or down), or the rarer crossed trumpets (bells up) with a vertical laurel leaf through the middle. Your photos therefore both depict the badge for Bandsman, and his unit no doubt converted from the old badge to the new badge during the war. Photo of the later Bandsman's badge is at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=260132849897 Photo of the more common Trumpeter's badge is at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=120133071576 I can't immediately find a photo on the Internet of the early Bandsman's badge, but I can scan one from a book and e-mail it to you if you wish. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher