To: Great War List Re: Somme Bullet Many thanks Delilah and Ray for your replies. I am sending by separate e-mail pics of the casing lengthwise and endwise for you to look at. Best wishes Tony Holkham Researching 19th Manchesters PALS (Cpl Ernest Briggs) Message: 1 Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 03:45:12 -0400 From: Tony Holkham <Holkham@compuserve.com> Subject: [GREATWAR] Somme bullet To: GreatWarList <GREATWAR@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <200705070345_MC3-1-E2E9-C33C@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 To: Great War List Re: Somme bullet id Can someone help with this please? I have been given a bullet casing found on the Somme (where my grandfather fought with the 19th Manchesters). On the base are several numbers and letters. Looking at it as a circle, in an arc at the top are the letters I A R T D I, and in an arc at the bottom the letters E B S I. Separating these two arcs on the right are the numbers 02 or 92 horizontally together, and on the left what look like the numbers 1 (with a tail as in continental writing style) and possibly 2 (or it may be a Z). The casing looks to be about 12mm across at the base, narrowing gradually at first then more so in the top 10mm, and about 50mm total length, with the opening at the top about 8mm in diameter. I'm guessing it's French or German but have no experience of these things. Also found in the same area were several small, heavy ballsabout 12mm in diameter which look like grape shot. Would this be the case, or could they be musket balls perhaps from an earlier conflict? Thanks and best wishes, Tony Holkham Researching 19th Manchesters PALS (Cpl Ernest Briggs) ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:43:32 -0400 From: "Delilah" <diamond6468@mindspring.com> Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Somme bullet To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <004b01c790be$783e8e20$6c849804@delilahs> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Is there a way you can send to my e-mail a photo of this - the initials may stand for the manufacturer, the numbers may be the size of the ammo - thats why I would like to look at it, if possible - can you tell me in inches what your mm might be - is there anything stamped on the bottom of the casing - that may tell the size delilah ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 20:40:27 +0100 From: "ray parker" <rlp@shikari.fsnet.co.uk> Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Somme bullet To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Message-ID: <001901c790df$91657280$6d8087d9@k0w8g6> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Re Somme Relic. This looks like a 8mm Lebel Rifle round. The case dimensions would be defined as 8x50R. The 02or 92 would be the manufacture date, ie: 1902. The 8mm Lebel cartridge was standard issue to the French army throughout WW1 and was used in the Lebel Model M18886 and M1893 Rifles as well as in French Hoskiss machine guns. Hope this helps Ray <

I would not clean it unless I had talked to someone and knew it would not damage the casing, if you can use a small brush and try to brush off any dirt (and please keep the dirt, I know this sounds ridiculous), but its possible if you want to go that far, use the dirt to find out exactly where and when it was fired - Can you translate the mm into inches for me, my mind don't do metric very well. delilah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tony Holkham" <Holkham@compuserve.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, May 08, 2007 9:56 AM Subject: [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 2, Issue 78 | To: Great War List | Re: Somme Bullet | | Many thanks Delilah and Ray for your replies. I am sending by separate | e-mail pics of the casing lengthwise and endwise for you to look at. | | Best wishes | | Tony Holkham | Researching 19th Manchesters PALS (Cpl Ernest Briggs) | | | Message: 1 | Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 03:45:12 -0400 | From: Tony Holkham <Holkham@compuserve.com> | Subject: [GREATWAR] Somme bullet | To: GreatWarList <GREATWAR@rootsweb.com> | Message-ID: <200705070345_MC3-1-E2E9-C33C@compuserve.com> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 | | To: Great War List | Re: Somme bullet id | | Can someone help with this please? I have been given a bullet casing found | on the Somme (where my grandfather fought with the 19th Manchesters). | | On the base are several numbers and letters. Looking at it as a circle, in | an arc at the top are the letters I A R T D I, and in an arc at the bottom | the letters E B S I. Separating these two arcs on the right are the numbers | 02 or 92 horizontally together, and on the left what look like the numbers | 1 (with a tail as in continental writing style) and possibly 2 (or it may | be a Z). | | The casing looks to be about 12mm across at the base, narrowing gradually | at first then more so in the top 10mm, and about 50mm total length, with | the opening at the top about 8mm in diameter. | | I'm guessing it's French or German but have no experience of these things. | | Also found in the same area were several small, heavy ballsabout 12mm in | diameter which look like grape shot. Would this be the case, or could they | be musket balls perhaps from an earlier conflict? | | Thanks and best wishes, | | Tony Holkham | Researching 19th Manchesters PALS (Cpl Ernest Briggs) | | ------------------------------ | Message: 2 | Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 11:43:32 -0400 | From: "Delilah" <diamond6468@mindspring.com> | Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Somme bullet | To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> | Message-ID: <004b01c790be$783e8e20$6c849804@delilahs> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" | | Is there a way you can send to my e-mail a photo of this - the initials may | | stand for the manufacturer, the numbers may be the size of the ammo - thats | | why I would like to look at it, if possible - can you tell me in inches | what | your mm might be - is there anything stamped on the bottom of the casing - | that may tell the size | delilah | | ------------------------------ | Message: 3 | Date: Mon, 7 May 2007 20:40:27 +0100 | From: "ray parker" <rlp@shikari.fsnet.co.uk> | Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Somme bullet | To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> | Message-ID: <001901c790df$91657280$6d8087d9@k0w8g6> | Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" | | Re Somme Relic. | This looks like a 8mm Lebel Rifle round. The case dimensions would be | defined as 8x50R. The 02or 92 would be the manufacture date, ie: 1902. | The 8mm Lebel cartridge was standard issue to the French army throughout | WW1 | and was used in the Lebel Model M18886 and M1893 Rifles as well as in | French | Hoskiss machine guns. | | Hope this helps | | Ray | < | | | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message |