Ray They are the same man. The numbers T/231 and T4/211746 are his regimental numbers. He has started out with the former and at some point has been renumbered to the latter. The T and T4 prefixes denote a Horse Transport man. Army Service Corps units can be difficult to research unless the sub-unit appears on the medal card/medal rolls or the soldiers service record has survived. Click this link to bring up the two entries: <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searchtype=browserefine&query=last_name%3dhoskins%7cscope%3d231&catid=10&pagenumber=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*> The reason for there being two cards is that catalogue ref WO 372/10 is for campaign medals whilst catalogue ref WO 372/24 covers Mentions in Despatches, Meritorious Service Medals and Territorial Force Efficiency Medals. If he received the TFEM in 1912 we might discount the latter. The card will tell all and may give the sub-unit. The campaign medal card should at least suggest whether he went overseas before or after 01/01/1916, and if the former give a disembarkation date. Regards Mike Shingleton -----Original Message----- From: Ray Brindle <ray@brindle.name> Sent Subject: [GREATWAR] Albert E Hoskins ASC > Hello all. I am new among you, chasing a slippery grandfather and only > recently discovered that he had a WW1 connection. > Albert Edward Hoskins signed up with the Army Service Corps the day after > war was declared in 1914 and was immediately made a serjeant, a rank he held > to the end of the war. We presume that means he had some sort of previous > service, and I have been told that an AE Hoskins was awarded the Territorial > Force Efficiency Medal in 1912, which apparently means that man had served > in the TF for 12 years. My Albert was 34 in 1914 and had worked in some > sort of admin capacity on the London Docks, both of which facts may have > contributed to his rank. > The National Archives medals index shows two different AE Hoskins, although > I suspect they are the same man. One is listed as a serjeant, the other as > a corporal. Both have “231” (or T/231) listed as their regiment. Serjeant > Hoskins (my man?) has a second line that has “T4/211746”. > My mother recalled being taken by her father to some sort of military > stables in the Greenwich-Plumstead area where he seemed to know the men and > the horses. My main interest is in knowing where he was in mid-1916 > (questions of paternity!) > I need advice on two matters for starters, please: > 1. I know I’ll eventually need to see if his war records have survived, but > is there any way of telling from the readily-available information if these > two Hoskins men are one and the same? > 2. Can anyone tell me more about what T/231 and T4/211746 were, and point me > in the right direction to find out the movements of these units (if that is > indeed what they were). > Many thanks > Ray > in Victoria, Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Very helpful response, Mike. Many thanks. Looks like I have to invest 3 poonds fifty to see the card. Or do I need to see both cards? (sounds like poker) Now, Mike and Listers, some more queries if I can bother you further please: Could it be that my information (from Port of London records) that AEH was immediately made a serjeant was an error? That he was in fact made a corporal on the strength of his TA time, and promoted to serjeant later? I could throw in that there is a third entry in the medals index: Another Albert E Hoskins, Private Royal (note) ASC, SS/16140. Is this someone else altogether or is there some other explanation? There couldn't have been so many by this name in the ASC, surely! I'm encouraged by the likely connection with horses. Would that mean his unit rode horses or simply supplied and maintained them? And was the latter done from England or more likely over the Channel? Cheers Ray -----Original Message----- From: Mike Shingleton [mailto:shinglma_64@btopenworld.com] Sent: Friday, 25 May 2007 6:38 PM To: Ray Brindle Cc: Great War list Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Albert E Hoskins ASC Ray They are the same man. The numbers T/231 and T4/211746 are his regimental numbers. He has started out with the former and at some point has been renumbered to the latter. The T and T4 prefixes denote a Horse Transport man. Army Service Corps units can be difficult to research unless the sub-unit appears on the medal card/medal rolls or the soldiers service record has survived. Click this link to bring up the two entries: <http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/documentsonline/search-results.asp?searc htype=browserefine&query=last_name%3dhoskins%7cscope%3d231&catid=10&pagenumb er=1&querytype=1&mediaarray=*> The reason for there being two cards is that catalogue ref WO 372/10 is for campaign medals whilst catalogue ref WO 372/24 covers Mentions in Despatches, Meritorious Service Medals and Territorial Force Efficiency Medals. If he received the TFEM in 1912 we might discount the latter. The card will tell all and may give the sub-unit. The campaign medal card should at least suggest whether he went overseas before or after 01/01/1916, and if the former give a disembarkation date. Regards Mike Shingleton -----Original Message----- From: Ray Brindle <ray@brindle.name> Sent Subject: [GREATWAR] Albert E Hoskins ASC > Hello all. I am new among you, chasing a slippery grandfather and only > recently discovered that he had a WW1 connection. > Albert Edward Hoskins signed up with the Army Service Corps the day after > war was declared in 1914 and was immediately made a serjeant, a rank he held > to the end of the war. We presume that means he had some sort of previous > service, and I have been told that an AE Hoskins was awarded the Territorial > Force Efficiency Medal in 1912, which apparently means that man had served > in the TF for 12 years. My Albert was 34 in 1914 and had worked in some > sort of admin capacity on the London Docks, both of which facts may have > contributed to his rank. > The National Archives medals index shows two different AE Hoskins, although > I suspect they are the same man. One is listed as a serjeant, the other as > a corporal. Both have "231" (or T/231) listed as their regiment. Serjeant > Hoskins (my man?) has a second line that has "T4/211746". > My mother recalled being taken by her father to some sort of military > stables in the Greenwich-Plumstead area where he seemed to know the men and > the horses. My main interest is in knowing where he was in mid-1916 > (questions of paternity!) > I need advice on two matters for starters, please: > 1. I know I'll eventually need to see if his war records have survived, but > is there any way of telling from the readily-available information if these > two Hoskins men are one and the same? > 2. Can anyone tell me more about what T/231 and T4/211746 were, and point me > in the right direction to find out the movements of these units (if that is > indeed what they were). > Many thanks > Ray > in Victoria, Australia > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message