Carol it happened quite a lot I am afraid - they died of wounds at a casualty clearing station and buried nearby and then the site was overrun with a subsequent battle or demolished by a shell and all trace of the graves disappeared. Regards John In message <200693011488.653501@carol-3de748ba1>, carol <carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk> writes >Morning listers > >Have been transcribing and finding info for a local memorial and came >across someone who died of wounds but is named on a memorial not in a >cemetery > >Is this normal, an error on sources etc., > >Can anyone shed a light on this > > >Carol >www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk >www.genealogyjunction.org.uk > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- John Chapman

Hello Yes! One of my Sherwood Foresters had died of wounds in soldiers died. His death cert has died at 88th Field Hospital but he is on the Menin Gate. Although amongst my men in Essex Farm cemetery is 'An unknown private of the Notts & Derby Regiment' - this has to be him and hopefully the dossier I have submitted will prove it. Men buried in shell holes etc were searched for after the war. Despite having map refs, their remains could not be found and they are on various memorials. I believe that it happened much more than we can imagine. Regards Steve carol <carol@wakefieldfhs.org.uk> wrote: Morning listers Have been transcribing and finding info for a local memorial and came across someone who died of wounds but is named on a memorial not in a cemetery Is this normal, an error on sources etc., Can anyone shed a light on this Carol www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk www.genealogyjunction.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. www.ypressalient.co.uk People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised

Morning listers Have been transcribing and finding info for a local memorial and came across someone who died of wounds but is named on a memorial not in a cemetery Is this normal, an error on sources etc., Can anyone shed a light on this Carol www.wakefieldfhs.org.uk www.genealogyjunction.org.uk

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 08:15:31 +0100, "Terry Evans" <terry_evans@btinternet.com> wrote: >On the medal card of a soldier I'm researching there's a comment in the remarks column which appears to read " Desp; Star returned taken on charge CRN 234 (or 294) d 23.1.20 Auty 734 (or y34). It will be CRV, rather than CRN, and stands for Certificate/Certified Receipt Voucher No 234, dated 23 Jan 1920. When medals were returned to the Army, perhaps by the Post Office as being undeliverable, then a voucher was created to certify their receipt. Auty stands for Authority, and I suspect that the 734 may be 1734 or even 1743, both of which are paragraphs of "King's Regulations and Orders for the Army", and give instructions regarding the issue and disposal of medals. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

----- Original Message ----- From: Terry Evans To: ww1 Sent: Friday, September 22, 2006 6:05 PM Subject: Medal Card On the medal card of a soldier I'm researching there's a comment in the remarks column which appears to read " Desp; Star returned taken on charge CRN 234 (or 294) d 23.1.20 Auty 734 (or y34). Can anyone explain the remarks, any help will be appreciated. Terry Evans

I'm not sure if this helps, but I have just realized that Denis Winter in "Haig's Command" writes (page 314 of the 1991 edition), "By Army instructions of 1914, keeping of private diaries was forbidden..." There is no reference to source. Peter

----- Original Message ----- From: <greatwar-request@rootsweb.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 1:02 AM Subject: GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. World War I and II rare poster collection (freedbyluvv) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2006 14:43:50 -0700 (PDT) > From: freedbyluvv <freedbyluvv@yahoo.com> > Subject: [GREATWAR] World War I and II rare poster collection > To: GREATWAR@rootsweb.com, WORLDWAR2@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <20060927214350.88822.qmail@web30304.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > http://special.library.louisville.edu/display-collection.asp?ID=474 > > --------------------------------- > Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the GREATWAR list administrator, send an email to > GREATWAR-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the GREATWAR mailing list, send an email to > GREATWAR@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 16 > *************************************** >

http://special.library.louisville.edu/display-collection.asp?ID=474 --------------------------------- Get your email and more, right on the new Yahoo.com

Monday 25th September - 73 deg F, fine clear day- Men from all the East Midland Shires and other counties move into position. Ex-miners, FWK, Ag Labs, shop-workers, mill workers ready for the off. Tuesday 26th September - 75 deg F Fine day - 11-30 am - The above men are in position. 12.35 - Go Over, 12.48 pm - 1st Objective, 1.17 pm 2nd Objective gained. 'Punctually at the zero hour 12.35 p.m. the 9th Sherwood Foresters moved forward under the barrage with 6th Border Regiment on their left. In ten minutes time the first objective had been taken, and the battalion had captured 95 prisoners, 3 machine-guns and one Trench Mortar. "D" Company was leading with "A" and "B" in support. 12.59 pm the Sherwood Foresters moved forward to take the 2nd Objective - Zollern Trench. "A" and "B" Companies were now in the van. Zollern Trench was reported occupied by 1.17pm. Considerable enemy opposition was met with here, and many casualties amongst officers and men occurred. The captures in this trench amounted to nearly 200 prisoners, 3 Machine-Guns and 3 Trench Mortars. Some excellent work was also done here in clearing Midway Trench by a special bombing party. The fight continued all afternoon and through the night as the battalion clung on to its gains. Brigadier's report on the operation - 'The manner in which the Hessian Trench was tenaciously held during the night 26/27th September by the 9th Sherwood Foresters reflected the greatest credit on that battalion as it was without touch on its right and left with anyone except the enemy'. Over 70 men died and some 200 wounded from 9th battalion - 10% killed and nearly 30% wounded. The Somme near Thiepval 25th and 26th September 1916 - 90 years ago. The next time you look at that old photo of Granddad or Gt Granddad in uniform, take a little time to remember that he wasn't just a boring old man, he was a hero who made sure that we can moan about the trivial things in life. Today and Tomorrow (and everyday) take the time to stop and remember. Not just on November 11th because the supermarkets want you to. A chilling fact - in the 20 century only 1968 saw no soldiers die in service. When you go home, think of us and say For your tomorrow , we gave our today. We will remember them. Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. www.ypressalient.co.uk People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Sue Light" <light.sue@gmail.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Cc: "Great War" <GREATWAR-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, September 21, 2006 2:08 PM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] CWGC > Howard > > This looks like him, but the details are somewhat different. > > http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=804694 > > Regards > Sue > > > On 21/09/06, Howard Booth <howard@booths44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >> >> Today I received a cutting from a Oldham newspaper of a relative in WW1 >> >> Lance-Corp. LUKE MARSDEN WATSON. M.M. >> Kings (Liverpool) Regiment. >> Killed 20 November 1917. >> >> I have tried for the last hour to find him on CWGC but cant, can anyone >> help. >> >> Regards >> >> Howard. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Good afternoon, Useful stuff for researchers. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:British_Army_regiments Patrick Holland. Perth, Western Australia

That seems very odd to me but, as you say Forrest, it may have been due to an arbitrary line of on a piece of paper that made the difference. Especially when members of 165 Brigade, 55th Division were commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial. Ken >>>I'd agree with all of that, but why was he commemorated on the Thiepval >>>Memorial to the "Missing of the Somme" when he was killed near Cambrai? >>I think I must have missed a post somewhere - where does it say that >>he was killed at Cambrai? >The 55th Division were near Cambrai and felt the full force of the >German counter-attack on 20/11/17. Those killed with no known grave from >the division at this time are commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial, but >not him. Well, I guess he's commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial because more than 30 other members of the same battalion who were killed on the same day are *also* commemorated there! See http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=755566 and http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=773355 etc Thiepval also has a similar number of men from the other two battalions of Brigade (164th Bde, 55th Div) who died on that day - 1/8th Bn, King's (Liverpool Regiment), and 2/5th Bn, Lancashire Fusiliers. An interesting example (because of the name) from the latter battalion is Pte John William Marsden at http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=804691 Name: MARSDEN, JOHN WILLIAM Initials: J W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Lancashire Fusiliers Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 20/11/1917 Additional information: Son of John James and Annie Marsden, of 184, Great Western St., Moss Side, Manchester; husband of Alice Davis (formerly Marsden), of "Craiginore," St. George's Avenue, Northampton. F.R.H.S. Organist at St. Clement's Church, Greenheys, Manchester. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 3 C and 3 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL In summary, over 100 men from 164th Bde of 55th Div who died on that day are all commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. 164th Bde was involved in a diversionary attack on the right flank, to the south of Cambrai, and this may have resulted in them being outside the "catchment area" of the Cambrai Memorial. Indeed, the Bn was closer to St Quentin than it was to Cambrai. Or perhaps such "subsidiary operations" as the Official History called them, were not within the remit of the Cambrai memorial. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Sat, 23 Sep 2006 00:45:08 +0100, "Ken Lees" <lees.ken@btinternet.com> wrote: >>>I'd agree with all of that, but why was he commemorated on the Thiepval >>>Memorial to the "Missing of the Somme" when he was killed near Cambrai? >>I think I must have missed a post somewhere - where does it say that >>he was killed at Cambrai? >The 55th Division were near Cambrai and felt the full force of the >German counter-attack on 20/11/17. Those killed with no known grave from >the division at this time are commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial, but >not him. Well, I guess he's commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial because more than 30 other members of the same battalion who were killed on the same day are *also* commemorated there! See http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=755566 and http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=773355 etc Thiepval also has a similar number of men from the other two battalions of Brigade (164th Bde, 55th Div) who died on that day - 1/8th Bn, King's (Liverpool Regiment), and 2/5th Bn, Lancashire Fusiliers. An interesting example (because of the name) from the latter battalion is Pte John William Marsden at http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=804691 Name: MARSDEN, JOHN WILLIAM Initials: J W Nationality: United Kingdom Rank: Second Lieutenant Regiment/Service: Lancashire Fusiliers Unit Text: 2nd/5th Bn. Age: 28 Date of Death: 20/11/1917 Additional information: Son of John James and Annie Marsden, of 184, Great Western St., Moss Side, Manchester; husband of Alice Davis (formerly Marsden), of "Craiginore," St. George's Avenue, Northampton. F.R.H.S. Organist at St. Clement's Church, Greenheys, Manchester. Casualty Type: Commonwealth War Dead Grave/Memorial Reference: Pier and Face 3 C and 3 D. Memorial: THIEPVAL MEMORIAL In summary, over 100 men from 164th Bde of 55th Div who died on that day are all commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial. 164th Bde was involved in a diversionary attack on the right flank, to the south of Cambrai, and this may have resulted in them being outside the "catchment area" of the Cambrai Memorial. Indeed, the Bn was closer to St Quentin than it was to Cambrai. Or perhaps such "subsidiary operations" as the Official History called them, were not within the remit of the Cambrai memorial. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

The 55th Division were near Cambrai and felt the full force of the German counter-attack on 20/11/17. Those killed with no known grave from the division at this time are commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial, but not him. Ken -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Forrest Anderson Sent: 23 September 2006 00:21 To: GREATWAR-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] CWGC On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:11:38 +0100, "Ken Lees" <lees.ken@btinternet.com> wrote: >I'd agree with all of that, but why was he commemorated on the Thiepval >Memorial to the "Missing of the Somme" when he was killed near Cambrai? I think I must have missed a post somewhere - where does it say that he was killed at Cambrai? Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The 55th Division were near Cambrai and felt the full force of the German counter-attack on 20/11/17. Those killed with no known grave from the division at this time are commemorated on the Cambrai Memorial, but not him. Ken >I'd agree with all of that, but why was he commemorated on the Thiepval >Memorial to the "Missing of the Somme" when he was killed near Cambrai? I think I must have missed a post somewhere - where does it say that he was killed at Cambrai? Forrest

On Fri, 22 Sep 2006 22:11:38 +0100, "Ken Lees" <lees.ken@btinternet.com> wrote: >I'd agree with all of that, but why was he commemorated on the Thiepval >Memorial to the "Missing of the Somme" when he was killed near Cambrai? I think I must have missed a post somewhere - where does it say that he was killed at Cambrai? Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

I'd agree with all of that, but why was he commemorated on the Thiepval Memorial to the "Missing of the Somme" when he was killed near Cambrai? Ken On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:59:40 +0100, "Howard Booth" <howard@booths44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >Today I received a cutting from a Oldham newspaper of a relative in WW1 > >Lance-Corp. LUKE MARSDEN WATSON. M.M. >Kings (Liverpool) Regiment. >Killed 20 November 1917. > >I have tried for the last hour to find him on CWGC but cant, can anyone help. I think I'd go with Sue on this one. LCpl Luke MARSDEN died on the right date, two of his names match, Soldiers Died in the Great War says he enlisted in Oldham, and the London Gazette of 28 Sep 1917 states that he was awarded the Military Medal and gives Oldham as his home town: ------------------ http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?IssueNumber=3 0312&PageDuplicate=n&pageNumber=12&SearchFor=&selMedalType=&selHonourTyp e= His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to award the Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Ladies, Non-commissioned Officers and Men : - 201633 Pte. L. Marsden, R. Lan. R. (Oldham). ------------------- Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On the medal card of a soldier I'm researching there's a comment in the remarks column which appears to read " Desp; Star returned taken on charge CRN 234 (or 294) d 23.1.20 Auty 734 (or y34). Can anyone explain the remarks, any help will be appreciated. Terry Evans

I have been lurking for a while and trying to learn :) Having been researching family history for a long time (35 years - I started at a young age :) I have decided to try and find out a little more about my maternal grandfather's service in WWI. When we were children Pop gave all his medals to my late brother for being such a brave boy (he spent a great deal of his childhood in hospital). I have just two medals left, one for Grandad and one for his father. Pop was always proud of having served with the Royal Naval Flying Corps, born 19th November 1896 his medal shows 223639 Cpl T Murray R.A.F. (Thomas Murray of London). This is the Great War medal. Among those that were lost over the years I remember one shaped like a cross, he had four or five medals, but they may not have all been his (I had not realised that one is for his father until a couple of years ago).. I remember my parents taking him to visit the Museum at Hendon, he remarked to one of the RAF people there, 'I can remember repairing many of those engines and radiators', the reply was something along the lines of, no you are mistaken these are from the first world war! All we ever knew was that he had served on airfields in northern France and he did once say that he had seen the Red Baron in action. When aged 94 he revealed that he had been up in a plane, but only the once! My grandmother always complained that when he had leave, he would go to Paris instead of coming home. He told me it was only ever a day or two, and only happened a couple of times, he would go to Paris and have a decent meal and a good nights sleep. The other medal shows a horse and rider, with skull and crossbones by the horses hoof / head of George the fifth on the reverse. It reads 63616 Sapper T Murray R.E. (again Thomas Murray of London). It seems easier to trace service people who perished in wars than to find out about service for those who survived. But, I shall be pleased to be corrected. Where should I begin to look, assuming I can find anything? Are there records at Kew? What should I be looking for please? Any advice would be warmly received. Thank you. Pat ... www.suffolk-surnames-list.co.uk

On Thu, 21 Sep 2006 21:59:40 +0100, "Howard Booth" <howard@booths44.freeserve.co.uk> wrote: >Today I received a cutting from a Oldham newspaper of a relative in WW1 > >Lance-Corp. LUKE MARSDEN WATSON. M.M. >Kings (Liverpool) Regiment. >Killed 20 November 1917. > >I have tried for the last hour to find him on CWGC but cant, can anyone help. I think I'd go with Sue on this one. LCpl Luke MARSDEN died on the right date, two of his names match, Soldiers Died in the Great War says he enlisted in Oldham, and the London Gazette of 28 Sep 1917 states that he was awarded the Military Medal and gives Oldham as his home town: ------------------ http://www.gazettes-online.co.uk/archiveViewFrameSetup.asp?IssueNumber=30312&PageDuplicate=n&pageNumber=12&SearchFor=&selMedalType=&selHonourType= His Majesty the KING has been graciously pleased to award the Military Medal for bravery in the Field to the undermentioned Ladies, Non-commissioned Officers and Men : — 201633 Pte. L. Marsden, R. Lan. R. (Oldham). ------------------- Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher