The predictable sore loser replies from Steve and Ken the pathetic about the outcome over the shot at Dawn issue only confirm the point which I made which was that some people have been so brain washed that will always justify the actions of someone in authority even if they are wrong. The SS was full of such men. I notice that Steve always signs off his emails with the words , I quote : " People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness " I find that difficult to accept given the lack of compassion he has always shown over the Shot at Dawn issue. In defense he claims that the records from the time in question are justification for the executions. It is in fact the lack and unreliability of any such evidence which has led the British government to issue the men who were shot a group pardon. Better late than never. As to Steve and his like minded heartless mates I just feel sorry for them. People with their type of mind set exist everywhere and across all times. For example, it has recently been announced in Germany, that over the past couple of year there has been a 50 % increase in Neo-Nazis activity. These contemporary louts in Germany were not even born when Adolf Hitler was condoning the murder of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2 yet they support his views which led to such atrocities. It has been said that those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of history are forced to repeat them. Ain't that just so true. As to changing history. Well, the group pardon will change history. I see that as a right that has long been needed not as a wrong. Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia. Steve wrote: > Some of us prefer to check the records - Guilty as charged and suffered the consequences. Changing history is wrong. > You can have your opinion but do not ram it down everyone Else's throat. > Your constant posts on this issue have been dealt with in the past. > No doubt you will agree to disagree and then put yet another pointless post on the list. > steve > > patrick holland <lambeth@it.net.au> wrote: > > > > The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always > been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men > who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own > military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the > announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim > such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human > beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. > > For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a > great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the > same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death > of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration > camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some > human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders > no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. > > > Patrick Holland. > > > Perth, Western Australia. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. > > www.ypressalient.co.uk > > People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Ah, there's the 'Delete' key. -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of patrick holland Sent: 14 November 2006 01:09 To: greatwar@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Shot at Dawn issue The predictable sore loser replies from Steve and Ken the pathetic about the outcome over the shot at Dawn issue only confirm the point which I made which was that some people have been so brain washed that will always justify the actions of someone in authority even if they are wrong. The SS was full of such men. I notice that Steve always signs off his emails with the words , I quote : " People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness " I find that difficult to accept given the lack of compassion he has always shown over the Shot at Dawn issue. In defense he claims that the records from the time in question are justification for the executions. It is in fact the lack and unreliability of any such evidence which has led the British government to issue the men who were shot a group pardon. Better late than never. As to Steve and his like minded heartless mates I just feel sorry for them. People with their type of mind set exist everywhere and across all times. For example, it has recently been announced in Germany, that over the past couple of year there has been a 50 % increase in Neo-Nazis activity. These contemporary louts in Germany were not even born when Adolf Hitler was condoning the murder of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2 yet they support his views which led to such atrocities. It has been said that those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of history are forced to repeat them. Ain't that just so true. As to changing history. Well, the group pardon will change history. I see that as a right that has long been needed not as a wrong. Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia. Steve wrote: > Some of us prefer to check the records - Guilty as charged and suffered the consequences. Changing history is wrong. > You can have your opinion but do not ram it down everyone Else's throat. > Your constant posts on this issue have been dealt with in the past. > No doubt you will agree to disagree and then put yet another pointless post on the list. > steve > > patrick holland <lambeth@it.net.au> wrote: > > > > The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always > been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men > who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own > military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the > announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim > such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human > beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. > > For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a > great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the > same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death > of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration > camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some > human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders > no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. > > > Patrick Holland. > > > Perth, Western Australia. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. > > www.ypressalient.co.uk > > People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>From the interesting article about the WWI vet in Florida getting a medal from the Governor (Dubya's brother0: "Bush said Pusey didn't recall getting a victory medal after the war and nobody could find any evidence that he had. So giving it to him for Veterans Day seemed fitting. McPherson tracked one down in a shop in Quantico, Va." Veterans's Affairs didn't issue him one for this event? Esp. as they had no record they had ever done so? Outrageous! They had to go and buy someone elses's medal from a junk shop. Nice for the old fellow to get one, but Governor Bush should be ashamed of himself for not seeing that he got one properly. Obviously, he was just there for the photo op. David

Thanks Janice Peter

Thanks Delilah, an interesting story. As for the Victory Medal, better late than never eh? Peter

On executions of soldiers in WWI, the majority of British soldiers sentenced to death (over 2000?) were reprieved. Joseph O'Neill says that some 38,000 men were tried for desertion, and some men executed in 1917 had been AWOL 12 times ("Ancestors" January 2006, article "To Discourage the Others"). The penalty largely depended on the recommendation of the commanding officer, so the recent pardons by the British Government reflect the arbitrary application of the death penalty. Both France (600) and Italy (500?) executed more soldiers than Britain (306). No figures for Austria-Hungary seem to be available, and the website below says no Russian soldiers were executed which is doubtful. Florence Farmborough, a British nurse on the Russian front heard that a Russian soldier who went AWOL as his wife was dangerously ill was hanged. http://www.shotatdawn.org.uk/index.html Yours, John Wilson

The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. Patrick Holland. Perth, Western Australia.

Carol Its the banks of the Zillebeke Lake/reservoir. It features often in war diaries and descriptions of the area. Hope this helps Mike Shingleton -----Original Message----- From: CAROL WATSON <caroliona@btopenworld.com> Sent Subject: [GREATWAR] Elusive Bund > Hello List > In 10th Northumberland Fusiliers War Diary mention is made of > Zillebeke Bund. I am unable to find the Bund on Trench Maps for > Zillebeke. Whilst in Ypres, earlier this year, I spoke to a lady at > the Flanders Fields Museum who said she had never heard of it. She > advised me to go to the Ypres records centre where another lady told > me she didn't know of a Zillebeke Bund, she said Bund was just a > wall. I had a trip to Zillebeke Lake but couldn't find any wall. I > thought no more about this until I read a reminiscence of an old > soldier who mentioned going up to the Bund with his Battalion. I > would be grateful if someone on the list could tell me where or what the Bund actually is or was. > Thank you > Regards Carol > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Florida's Only Living WWI Vet Honored Associated Press | November 11, 2006 BRADENTON, Fla. - Florida's only living World War I veteran got a long-delayed medal Friday as he smiled at the hubbub and recalled his service on a battleship nearly 90 years ago. Ernest Charles Pusey, 111, wasn't feeling too talkative but seemed to enjoy the attention as Gov. Jeb Bush awarded him a World War I Victory Medal at a gathering in the retired General Motors worker's trailer on the day before Veterans Day. "It looks pretty good, doesn't it?" Bush said, placing the glass-encased medal on the table next to Pusey's recliner. Pusey was in the U.S. Navy from 1917 to 1919 aboard the battleship USS Wyoming, which spent much of the war patrolling the sea lanes around the British Isles. He told Bush he doesn't feel too good some days and has trouble getting around. But he remembers his time on that battleship, especially "stopping at different cities out there." A black-and-white photo of the ship hangs on the wall in his living room near a framed letter of congratulations from President Bush, the governor's brother, that Pusey received this year. According to the federal Department of Veterans Affairs Web site, there are fewer than 25 living U.S. veterans of World War I out of nearly 5 million who served worldwide. Last year, there were four World War I veterans in Florida, but two have died and one moved to Alabama, said Rocky McPherson, executive director of the Florida Department of Veterans' Affairs. Bush said Pusey didn't recall getting a victory medal after the war and nobody could find any evidence that he had. So giving it to him for Veterans Day seemed fitting. McPherson tracked one down in a shop in Quantico, Va. Pusey worked at GM in Flint, Mich., for more than 30 years and moved to Florida in 1960. He has tried nursing homes a few times, but prefers living in his trailer with the help of a caretaker who also takes him to church and out for scallop dinner on Sundays. "The most amazing thing about Ernie is when I see him come home from church, get out of the car and walk in the house by himself," said Jim Johns, who lives across the street. "It tells you something about his soul. The man just glows."

Hello List In 10th Northumberland Fusiliers War Diary mention is made of Zillebeke Bund. I am unable to find the Bund on Trench Maps for Zillebeke. Whilst in Ypres, earlier this year, I spoke to a lady at the Flanders Fields Museum who said she had never heard of it. She advised me to go to the Ypres records centre where another lady told me she didn't know of a Zillebeke Bund, she said Bund was just a wall. I had a trip to Zillebeke Lake but couldn't find any wall. I thought no more about this until I read a reminiscence of an old soldier who mentioned going up to the Bund with his Battalion. I would be grateful if someone on the list could tell me where or what the Bund actually is or was. Thank you Regards Carol

Troll Yawn...... "Next!" -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of patrick holland Sent: 13 November 2006 16:32 To: greatwar@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREATWAR] Shot at Dawn issue The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. Patrick Holland. Perth, Western Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Some of us prefer to check the records - Guilty as charged and suffered the consequences. Changing history is wrong. You can have your opinion but do not ram it down everyone Else's throat. Your constant posts on this issue have been dealt with in the past. No doubt you will agree to disagree and then put yet another pointless post on the list. steve patrick holland <lambeth@it.net.au> wrote: The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. Patrick Holland. Perth, Western Australia. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. www.ypressalient.co.uk People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised

German "Bund" has more than one connotation. It is the German cognate to English "bund," "band," and bank". For example, "Bund" has been adopted into English unchanged and refers to any sort of "bank" or "embankment" in the sense of a wall, a levee or dike along a stream or canal, a raised avenue or promenade, and in German may have been used as a synonym to Tankwall or Tankumwallung, an anti-tank wall. Thus, the Zillebeke Bund might have been an anti-tank wall in or near Zillebeke, Belgium, or perhaps a levee or dike along a watercourse, perhaps along the river that runs through town. The lady in Ypres probably knew just what she was talking about. TO PUT IT IN PERSPECTIVE: If you think politics, "Bund" can mean "band" in the sense of an "alliance" or "brotherhood," leading to its German usage equivalent to English "federal," as in "Bundesrepublik Deutschland," the "Federal Republic of Germany." "Bund" is in most dictionaries, both English and German, hard-copy and online. See: www.leo.org www.dictionary.com www.merriamwebster.com Hope this does not obscure more than it clears. David Crider Bham. AL =========================================================== CAROL WATSON <caroliona@btopenworld.com> wrote: Hello List In 10th Northumberland Fusiliers War Diary mention is made of Zillebeke Bund. I am unable to find the Bund on Trench Maps for Zillebeke. Whilst in Ypres, earlier this year, I spoke to a lady at the Flanders Fields Museum who said she had never heard of it. She advised me to go to the Ypres records centre where another lady told me she didn't know of a Zillebeke Bund, she said Bund was just a wall. I had a trip to Zillebeke Lake but couldn't find any wall. I thought no more about this until I read a reminiscence of an old soldier who mentioned going up to the Bund with his Battalion. I would be grateful if someone on the list could tell me where or what the Bund actually is or was. Thank you Regards Carol --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail.

Hi Peter/Listers, See: http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sco1.htm Janice USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Metcalfe" <Peter-redfern@runbox.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2006 2:47 AM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Desertion > Many thanks to all who replied. I had no idea so many deserters go off > virtually scot-free. Which begs another question - Where did the term > "scot-free" originate? > > Regards > > Peter > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to all who replied. I had no idea so many deserters go off virtually scot-free. Which begs another question - Where did the term "scot-free" originate? Regards Peter

www.1914-1918.net all you ever wanted to know about the Great War and researching a man who served in it. regards Steve RSCarter@aol.com wrote: What site was that you used? Thanks Shirley in Texas ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. www.ypressalient.co.uk People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised

Hi List I am currently researching a great uncle of mine who died of wounds in June 1918 at the 3rd Canadian Stationary Hospital in Gezaincourt, The Somme. I am interested to find out more about the hospital and also wondered if records were kept for the hospital and if so where they would be now and what information they would give me about my ancestor. I am interested to find out about the events leading up to his admittance to the hospital. Family history says he was hit by shrapnel returning from leave. I hope that someone will be able to offer me some help to guide me on my way. I have looked at the websites about the battle of the Somme but they mostly detail the earlier battles, rather than this later one. Thank you in advance. Nicola Butler ILM of PTE W Arthur Brackner - 17th bn Lancashire Fusiliers. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nottinghamshire_genealogy/

Please remember my Grandfather Thomas Alfred Bennett , Royal West Kent Regt. died on duty at Jubalpore, India, July 28th 1917 and his brother George killed at Warlencourt Berque, Somme, November 15th 1916. They will never be forgotten

What site was that you used? Thanks Shirley in Texas

I just wanted to thank everyone with your help in researching WW1 service records. Thanks to Forrest who found him in the London Gazette, and to others who recommended sites. The 1914-1918 site is excellent and very user friendly. Thanks again. Joan _________________________________________________________________ Say hello to the next generation of Search. Live Search – try it now. http://www.live.com/?mkt=en-ca