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    1. [GREATWAR] [GREAT WAR] Request SDGW Frederick Jones
    2. Could someone kindly do a look up? It is for a Frederick Jones , kia 30 March 1918. Royal Engineers , 5th Field Survey Company. Army Number: 244755. Pioneer I need his place of enlistment & where born if possible. Thanks in advance, Glynn

    11/19/2006 11:26:27
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Terminology request
    2. David Parker
    3. HMS Savage was a G Class destroyer. HMS Blenheim was a Destroyer Depot Ship, and HMS Pembroke was the Shore base at Chatham. David ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick Parsons" <derrick.parsons@btinternet.com> To: <GREATWAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 2:48 PM Subject: [GREATWAR] Terminology request > Dear list, > > I wonder if I could call upon your expertise? > > I have a CPO Alfred Bassett who died of a perforated gastric ulcer on > board a hospital ship at Mudros on 22nd October 1916. > > His service record raises a few questions with me. > > For the few years before his death he is listed as serving on: > > Blenheim > Vernon > Drake > Good Hope > Blenheim (Savage) > Victory II > Blenheim (Savage) > Pembroke II (Savage) > Blenheim (Savage) > > I think that some of these (Vernon, Drake) are shore-establishments. Is > this correct? I'm puzzled by the (Savage) appended to Blenheim and > Pembroke II. Can anyone explain this? > > Many thanks, > > Derrick Parsons > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    11/19/2006 10:47:24
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] HMS Partridge 1917
    2. Janice Duke
    3. Hi Derrick/Listers, Here are pictures of the HMS Partridge: http://www.battleships-cruisers.co.uk/moon_class.htm#HMS%20Partridge Janice USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick Parsons" <derrick.parsons@btinternet.com> To: <GREATWAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 2:47 PM Subject: [GREATWAR] HMS Partridge 1917 > Dear list, > > I have an interest in Lieutenant Launcelot John Barrington Walters who was > killed on HMS Partridge on 12th December 1917. On a memorial plaque in > our local church it says that he died "in spite of a gallant attempt to > save him by Sub Lieut Aubrey Egerton Grey". > > Can anyone shed any light on this incident? > > Derrick Parsons > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    11/19/2006 09:03:37
    1. [GREATWAR] Warminster Sutton Temp. Camp
    2. Margery Whitham
    3. I am hoping someone can tell me about the above camp in Wiltshire! Was it a camp for troops in transit to other locations and disbanded after the Great War? The reason I ask is that I have a post card dated Jan.19th (unfortunately no year) and on it the writer says ""it is a miserable spot after all. I am so tired of talking to myself....these nights are awfully chilly, too - colder than Belgium....this morning I had pleasure indeed parting with my equipment for good. In its place I have a kit bag also a red bag to carry...this looks like peace but you can see I do not intend to feel excited yet. Fourteen days will probably be granted to us, it sounds jolly, and when leave is over I understand we are held in readiness to depart...I won't think of embarkation."" Any information at all will be most welcome. Margery

    11/19/2006 05:49:34
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Royal Navy death
    2. Forrest Anderson
    3. On Fri, 17 Nov 2006 07:59:42 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Metcalfe" <Peter-redfern@runbox.com> wrote: >I am trying to find information on a seaman by the name of A Wheeler who died pre July 1915. > >His name is on the local parish church war memorial in Flint, Flintshire as is his father William Edmund Wheeler who was kia on 26th March 1917. War Memorial Committees decided after the war who should be commemorated on local war memorials, and who should not. When researching war memorials, a sight of the proceedings of these committees would help a great deal, but they only seem to have survived in a few cases. Fortunately, Flint seems to be one of the places where some records have survived, and I found the following record on the National Register of Archives database at http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/nra/searches/sidocs.asp?SIR=O52075 ------------------------------------------------------ Reference: GB/NNAF/O52075 Description: County of Flint War Memorial, Flintshire, Clwyd 1 record noted: Scope 1919: personal details card index rel to c10,700 men Repository: Flintshire Record Office Record Reference: D/DM/181 Other reference: see Clwyd RO news summer 1992 -- Flintshire Record Office Contact Details: The Old Rectory Hawarden CH5 3NR Wales Tel: 01244 532364 Email: archives@flintshire.gov.uk Website: http://www.flintshire.gov.uk/archives ------------------------------------------------------ The card index may not give you the answer to your question, but it's crying out to be checked! Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

    11/17/2006 05:47:59
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Royal Navy death
    2. Peter Metcalfe
    3. Hello Peter I take your point but his mother did state she "lost one in the navy" which perhaps doesn't neccessarily mean the Royal or Merchant. I have checked the CWGC again for Army and Civilian and the SDGW but came up with nothing. Thanks anyway Regards Peter

    11/17/2006 05:23:52
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Royal Navy death
    2. Peter Fellowes
    3. Hello Peter, et al, Peter sometimes with this sort of research you might have to think sideways. Don't fall into the trap of reading a couple of statements and coming to a single conclusion. Sometimes its a case of seeing the trees when your in the middle of the wood. >From the information you have provided below [unless you have some other information not shown here] what makes you think he was in the Royal Navy ?. The [in part] newspaper quote you give: "It may be mentioned that the eldest son of Mr and Mrs Wheeler was lost on a vessel which was torpedoed" Does not mention he was in the Royal Navy. The part where his Mother [in Court] states: "..........in court on a charge of stealing where she states she has two sons in the army and had lost one in the navy......." I served for 25 years in the Army and my Mother would always refer to me as "...........son in the Forces" she never once ever said "in the Army". Could then his mother mean more generally 'at sea' rather than 'in the Royal Navy'. Anyway just a couple of my thoughts might or might not help, be interested to see what some more knowledgeable members than I come up with. Regards Peter Fellowes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Peter Metcalfe" <Peter-redfern@runbox.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, November 17, 2006 7:59 AM Subject: [GREATWAR] Royal Navy death >I am trying to find information on a seaman by the name of A Wheeler who >died pre July 1915. > > His name is on the local parish church war memorial in Flint, Flintshire > as is his father William Edmund Wheeler who was kia on 26th March 1917. > > There is no death report of A Wheeler in the local newspaper but on 2nd > July 1915 it was reported that his mother was in court on a charge of > stealing where she states she has two sons in the army and had lost one in > the navy (her husband had not enlisted yet). > > William Edmund's death was reported in the newspaper where it also stated > "It may be mentioned that the eldest son of Mr and Mrs Wheeler was lost on > a vessel which was torpedoed" > > In the 1901 census the eldest son was Augustus W. Wheeler who was born in > Silvertown, Essex in about 1894. > > His name is not on the CWGC website so how can I find out when he died and > his service record. I did a search in the National Archives website but > nothing showed up. > > Why do you suppose the CWGC didn't record his death? > > Regards > > Peter > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    11/17/2006 02:30:49
    1. [GREATWAR] Royal Navy death
    2. Peter Metcalfe
    3. I am trying to find information on a seaman by the name of A Wheeler who died pre July 1915. His name is on the local parish church war memorial in Flint, Flintshire as is his father William Edmund Wheeler who was kia on 26th March 1917. There is no death report of A Wheeler in the local newspaper but on 2nd July 1915 it was reported that his mother was in court on a charge of stealing where she states she has two sons in the army and had lost one in the navy (her husband had not enlisted yet). William Edmund's death was reported in the newspaper where it also stated "It may be mentioned that the eldest son of Mr and Mrs Wheeler was lost on a vessel which was torpedoed" In the 1901 census the eldest son was Augustus W. Wheeler who was born in Silvertown, Essex in about 1894. His name is not on the CWGC website so how can I find out when he died and his service record. I did a search in the National Archives website but nothing showed up. Why do you suppose the CWGC didn't record his death? Regards Peter

    11/17/2006 12:59:42
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 59
    2. Peter Fellowes
    3. Greetings to all, I have not [yet] read Putkowski's book so am unable to comment about the list John recommends. However may I add the list [appendix 2] to Blindfold and Alone by Cathryn Corns and John Hughes-Wilson [Cassell 2005]. It lists all British, and Dominion ranks [including Chinese labourers] executed. The list follows the convention: Name, Rank, Unit, Execution Date, Offence, NA Reference [where applicable], Cemetery were commemorated. Regards Peter Fellowes ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Chapman" <john@purley.demon.co.uk> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, November 16, 2006 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 59 > The best list is in Julian Putkowski's book 'Shot at Dawn' > > Your uncle does not appear on the list. > > Regards > > John > > > > In message <200611161111_MC3-1-D117-C8D@compuserve.com>, Tony Holkham > <Holkham@compuserve.com> writes >>To: Great War List, especially Patrick & Steve >> >>Please, please, people, take more care with your words and oipinions. This >>sort of argument is pointless and destructive to what we are all working >>for, which is enlightenment and enjoyment. And please stay on the list - >>you have to lot to offer the rest of us. We can disagree without bad >>words. >> >>For example, is there a list of names of men who were shot? Would any have >>been executed after Armistice? I have been trying to find out how my great >>uncle (39345 10bn E Yorks regt) William Raymond Botham (b ~1897) died in >>France 19.11.1918 (buried at Longuenesse). He was my grandmother's 'baby' >>brother and the whole family were Quakers but he went went called and he >>told her they had made him a sniper because he was a good shot. She always >>thought he would have refused to kill anyone, and would therefore have >>been >>executed. I very much wanted to find out otherwise before she died, but >>too >>late. Another small tragedy out of a greater. Any ideas? >> >>Best wishes to all >> >>Tony Holkham >>www.tonyholkham/holkham_ancestry.htm >>Researching 19th Manchesters and WW1 Royal Navy generally >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > -- > John Chapman > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    11/16/2006 02:29:48
    1. [GREATWAR] Thank You
    2. CAROL WATSON
    3. Thank you to David Crider and Mike Shingleton for their replies to my posting. Regards Carol

    11/16/2006 12:47:22
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] HALLIDAY (1873-1917) Luckington, Wiltshire
    2. Julie Goucher
    3. >Try contacting this organisation, http://www.britishwargraves.org.uk/ I am >a >photographer for them and there are volunteer photographers all across the >UK. If the picture you want is not already on the data base a volunteer >from the Wiltshire area may be contacted and asked to take the picture for >you. John, Thanks so much for posting this URL. I had come across it before, but your posting jogged my memory of it. I had a look, as always, for the details of my grandfather's first cousin,William James West. Much to mtdelight a photograph is on file on the site, although not currently online. I have requested a copy of the image and sent a donation. William is buried in the British War Cemetary in Ligny-sur-Canche. When he died, he, like so many others was only 20 years old. Thanks once again -- Regards, Julie Goucher anglers.rest@virgin.net www.anglers-rest.net www.C-J.org.uk

    11/16/2006 11:49:23
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 59
    2. M.G.Fergusson
    3. There is no William Botham in the list of men sentenced to death by Courts Martial 1914 -1924. Soldiers Died in the Great War will tell you how he died. From the cemetery in St Omer he was probably a flu victim from one of the many hospitals in St Omer. Aye Malcolm -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Tony Holkham Sent: 16 November 2006 16:11 To: INTERNET:greatwar@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 59 To: Great War List, especially Patrick & Steve Please, please, people, take more care with your words and oipinions. This sort of argument is pointless and destructive to what we are all working for, which is enlightenment and enjoyment. And please stay on the list - you have to lot to offer the rest of us. We can disagree without bad words. For example, is there a list of names of men who were shot? Would any have been executed after Armistice? I have been trying to find out how my great uncle (39345 10bn E Yorks regt) William Raymond Botham (b ~1897) died in France 19.11.1918 (buried at Longuenesse). He was my grandmother's 'baby' brother and the whole family were Quakers but he went went called and he told her they had made him a sniper because he was a good shot. She always thought he would have refused to kill anyone, and would therefore have been executed. I very much wanted to find out otherwise before she died, but too late. Another small tragedy out of a greater. Any ideas? Best wishes to all Tony Holkham www.tonyholkham/holkham_ancestry.htm Researching 19th Manchesters and WW1 Royal Navy generally ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

    11/16/2006 11:21:35
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 59
    2. John Chapman
    3. The best list is in Julian Putkowski's book 'Shot at Dawn' Your uncle does not appear on the list. Regards John In message <200611161111_MC3-1-D117-C8D@compuserve.com>, Tony Holkham <Holkham@compuserve.com> writes >To: Great War List, especially Patrick & Steve > >Please, please, people, take more care with your words and oipinions. This >sort of argument is pointless and destructive to what we are all working >for, which is enlightenment and enjoyment. And please stay on the list - >you have to lot to offer the rest of us. We can disagree without bad words. > >For example, is there a list of names of men who were shot? Would any have >been executed after Armistice? I have been trying to find out how my great >uncle (39345 10bn E Yorks regt) William Raymond Botham (b ~1897) died in >France 19.11.1918 (buried at Longuenesse). He was my grandmother's 'baby' >brother and the whole family were Quakers but he went went called and he >told her they had made him a sniper because he was a good shot. She always >thought he would have refused to kill anyone, and would therefore have been >executed. I very much wanted to find out otherwise before she died, but too >late. Another small tragedy out of a greater. Any ideas? > >Best wishes to all > >Tony Holkham >www.tonyholkham/holkham_ancestry.htm >Researching 19th Manchesters and WW1 Royal Navy generally > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- John Chapman

    11/16/2006 09:58:36
    1. [GREATWAR] GREATWAR Digest, Vol 1, Issue 59
    2. Tony Holkham
    3. To: Great War List, especially Patrick & Steve Please, please, people, take more care with your words and oipinions. This sort of argument is pointless and destructive to what we are all working for, which is enlightenment and enjoyment. And please stay on the list - you have to lot to offer the rest of us. We can disagree without bad words. For example, is there a list of names of men who were shot? Would any have been executed after Armistice? I have been trying to find out how my great uncle (39345 10bn E Yorks regt) William Raymond Botham (b ~1897) died in France 19.11.1918 (buried at Longuenesse). He was my grandmother's 'baby' brother and the whole family were Quakers but he went went called and he told her they had made him a sniper because he was a good shot. She always thought he would have refused to kill anyone, and would therefore have been executed. I very much wanted to find out otherwise before she died, but too late. Another small tragedy out of a greater. Any ideas? Best wishes to all Tony Holkham www.tonyholkham/holkham_ancestry.htm Researching 19th Manchesters and WW1 Royal Navy generally

    11/16/2006 04:11:12
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Hampshire Regiment: 1917
    2. John Milner
    3. Hello Derek The 15th Hants were with the 122nd Brigade part of the 41st Division. The battle of the Menin Road was 20th - 25th Sept 1917, and the division took part in the battle. Regards John Milner ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derrick Parsons" <derrick.parsons@btinternet.com> To: <GREATWAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 14, 2006 5:20 PM Subject: [GREATWAR] Hampshire Regiment: 1917 > Dear list, > > I am interested in: > Private Sydney John Smith > 204545 15th Bn Hampshire Regiment > Killed on 20th September 1917 > Remembered at Tyne Cot Memorial > > Has anyone any information on what action he might have been killed in? > > Many thanks, > > Derrick Parsons > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

    11/14/2006 12:06:44
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Shot at Dawn issue -
    2. patrick holland
    3. Steve, As you know, I thanked you with great sincerity for your act of random kindness for sending me the photo you took for me while you were in Ypres. Your kindness impressed me and I told you so at the time. Now you, irrationally, have decided to punish all the other members of the mailing list over something that does n't concern them because you and I have disagreed on the Shot at Dawn issue. Well mate, that sounds to me to be spiteful in the extreme and completely contradicts the signature on all your emails, to quote : " People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness " As to insults, I only respond to them I never initiate them. If you intend to leave the list, then do so, that 's your choice but don 't blame me for what you chose to do.. As I see it your pronouncement is just a clumsy attempt to save face over the loss of your disagreement with me over the Shot at Dawn issue. Now that you have spat the dummy, it might be wise to cool down before you cut off your nose to spite your face. Your contributions to the list are well recognized and appreciated. You would miss the list as much as it would miss you. The Shot at Dawn issue is now over between us. Keep up your good work. Regards. Patrick. Perth, Western Australia. Steve wrote: > This sore loser is the one who went out of his way to take photos for you at Ypres recently. Thanks to you, no one else will get the chance of having photos taken. > My wife said that I was an idiot to take photos for someone like you but I said it takes all sorts. Being personally insulted though is the last straw. I am not sure what your problem is but I suggest you 'Get a life' > > At least I have a brain to wash. > I will unsub. Anyone expecting photos of men's graves, will get them. My free service of taking photos in Belgium and France will though cease as of now. > At least you all know the moron to blame. Also that of freely giving my time in research for people. > steve > > patrick holland <lambeth@it.net.au> wrote: > > The predictable sore loser replies from Steve and Ken the pathetic about > the outcome over the shot at Dawn issue only confirm the point which I > made which was that some people have been so brain washed that will > always justify the actions of someone in authority even if they are > wrong. The SS was full of such men. > > I notice that Steve always signs off his emails with the words , I quote : > > " People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness " > > > I find that difficult to accept given the lack of compassion he has always shown over the Shot at Dawn issue. In defense he claims that the records from the time in question are justification for the executions. It is in fact the lack and unreliability of any such evidence which has led the British government to issue the men who were shot a group pardon. Better late than never. > > > As to Steve and his like minded heartless mates I just feel sorry for them. People with their type of mind set exist everywhere and across all times. For example, it has recently been announced in Germany, that over the past couple of year there has been a 50 % increase in Neo-Nazis activity. These contemporary louts in Germany were not even born when Adolf Hitler was condoning the murder of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2 yet they support his views which led to such atrocities. It has been said that those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of history are forced to repeat them. Ain't that just so true. > > > As to changing history. Well, the group pardon will change history. I see that as a right that has long been needed not as a wrong. > > > Patrick Holland. > > > Perth Western Australia. > > > > > > Steve wrote: > >> Some of us prefer to check the records - Guilty as charged and suffered the consequences. Changing history is wrong. >> You can have your opinion but do not ram it down everyone Else's throat. >> Your constant posts on this issue have been dealt with in the past. >> No doubt you will agree to disagree and then put yet another pointless post on the list. >> steve >> >> patrick holland wrote: >> >> >> >> The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always >> been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men >> who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own >> military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the >> announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim >> such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human >> beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. >> >> For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a >> great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the >> same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death >> of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration >> camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some >> human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders >> no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. >> >> >> Patrick Holland. >> >> >> Perth, Western Australia. >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. >> >> www.ypressalient.co.uk >> >> People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. > > www.ypressalient.co.uk > > People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

    11/14/2006 11:54:46
    1. [GREATWAR] In Memorium
    2. Peter Metcalfe
    3. 9452 Sergt Frederick William Bowen of the 2nd Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers who was killed in action on 14th November 1914 aged 28.

    11/14/2006 11:14:50
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] "Scot-free"
    2. David Dixon
    3. Thanks Janice & Peter, for the Q & A.through the list. I may not be the wiser, but at least am a little better informed. From Sydney, Oz Dave, Janice Duke wrote: > Hi Peter/Listers, > See: > http://www.worldwidewords.org/qa/qa-sco1.htm > > >

    11/14/2006 11:07:03
    1. [GREATWAR] Hampshire Regiment: 1917
    2. Derrick Parsons
    3. Dear list, I am interested in: Private Sydney John Smith 204545 15th Bn Hampshire Regiment Killed on 20th September 1917 Remembered at Tyne Cot Memorial Has anyone any information on what action he might have been killed in? Many thanks, Derrick Parsons

    11/14/2006 10:20:12
    1. Re: [GREATWAR] Shot at Dawn issue -
    2. Steve
    3. This sore loser is the one who went out of his way to take photos for you at Ypres recently. Thanks to you, no one else will get the chance of having photos taken. My wife said that I was an idiot to take photos for someone like you but I said it takes all sorts. Being personally insulted though is the last straw. I am not sure what your problem is but I suggest you 'Get a life' At least I have a brain to wash. I will unsub. Anyone expecting photos of men's graves, will get them. My free service of taking photos in Belgium and France will though cease as of now. At least you all know the moron to blame. Also that of freely giving my time in research for people. steve patrick holland <lambeth@it.net.au> wrote: The predictable sore loser replies from Steve and Ken the pathetic about the outcome over the shot at Dawn issue only confirm the point which I made which was that some people have been so brain washed that will always justify the actions of someone in authority even if they are wrong. The SS was full of such men. I notice that Steve always signs off his emails with the words , I quote : " People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness " I find that difficult to accept given the lack of compassion he has always shown over the Shot at Dawn issue. In defense he claims that the records from the time in question are justification for the executions. It is in fact the lack and unreliability of any such evidence which has led the British government to issue the men who were shot a group pardon. Better late than never. As to Steve and his like minded heartless mates I just feel sorry for them. People with their type of mind set exist everywhere and across all times. For example, it has recently been announced in Germany, that over the past couple of year there has been a 50 % increase in Neo-Nazis activity. These contemporary louts in Germany were not even born when Adolf Hitler was condoning the murder of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration camps during WW2 yet they support his views which led to such atrocities. It has been said that those who refuse to learn from the mistakes of history are forced to repeat them. Ain't that just so true. As to changing history. Well, the group pardon will change history. I see that as a right that has long been needed not as a wrong. Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia. Steve wrote: > Some of us prefer to check the records - Guilty as charged and suffered the consequences. Changing history is wrong. > You can have your opinion but do not ram it down everyone Else's throat. > Your constant posts on this issue have been dealt with in the past. > No doubt you will agree to disagree and then put yet another pointless post on the list. > steve > > patrick holland wrote: > > > > The disappointed response, from those of our members who have always > been against the proposal that a group pardon being given to those men > who were unjustly executed in WW1 on orders signed by their own > military commanders and supported by the government of the day, at the > announcement that the British government is at last prepared to proclaim > such a pardon, is not unexpected, given the nature of some human > beings to accept uncritically the actions of their leaders. > > For example, I 've met Germans who have told me that Hitler was a > great man. There must be many more in Germany today who still feel the > same way in spite of the evidence that he was responsible for the death > of 6 million Jews and countless other prisoners in Nazis concentration > camps during WW2. Obviously, some people given the nature of some > human beings to blindly accept authority , are loyal to their leaders > no matter what they do. As you see, I ' m not one of those. > > > Patrick Holland. > > > Perth, Western Australia. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. > > www.ypressalient.co.uk > > People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Researching 9th (service) Battalion Sherwood Foresters (Notts & Derbys Regiment) during the Great War. www.ypressalient.co.uk People ask me my religion - my religion is kindness - True enlightenment is nothing but the nature of one's own self being fully realised

    11/14/2006 03:20:40