Hi James/Listers, See: http://collections.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.2472 http://www.firstworldwar.com/atoz/ukconscription.htm Janice USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "james morgan" <jteaguem@yahoo.co.uk> To: <GREATWAR@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 18, 2007 1:13 PM Subject: [GREATWAR] WW1 UK Draft. > Hi Listers. > My name is James Morgan in Bridgend Wales and my question is. > What date did the War DRAFT start and how was it carried out? > Best Regards. > James. > > > --------------------------------- > What kind of emailer are you? Find out today - get a free analysis of your > email personality. Take the quiz at the Yahoo! Mail Championship. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On Tue, 16 Jan 2007 19:48:19 +0000 (UTC), "Peter Metcalfe" <Peter-redfern@runbox.com> wrote: >Would some kind person do a look up for me please in the Soldiers Died in the Second World War CD-ROM. > >Major John Royle who was killed at Arnhem in September 1944. Here you are... Number 66172 Rank Major Name J P Royle (John) Regiment At 1 Sep 1939: No Regiment Recorded Regiment At Death: Glider Pilot Regt Place Of Birth: Sussex Place Of Residence: Wiltshire Died When 20/09/44 Died Where in Western Europe Campaign, 1944/45 The Times carried the following obituary for him in the edition of 23 Jan 1945: ------------- MAJOR J. P. ROYLE His commanding officer writes:— The announcement that John Royle had been killed in action at Arnhem was a bitter blow to his many friends; few of his age could have had so many and such a variety. He had that enviable quality of making friends wherever he went, both young and old, in every walk of life. His impressive appear- ance, charm of manner, and great sense of humour made a lasting and delightful imprint on the memory of all those who had the luck to know him. On the outbreak of war he enlisted at once and had the distinction of filling every rank up to that of Major (at one time acting as regimental-sergeant-major at the training establishment at Loch Ailort). A born soldier, he had the experience and enthusiasm which were so essential for the training of men in a new arm of the service. The success of the regiment in ultimate operations was largely due to his untiring efforts. In everything that he undertook he displayed great dash and energy, which was an inspiration to all con- cerned. It was in this manner, in the face of the enemy, that he met his untimely end. A true sportsman in every sense of the word, he lived to the full every moment of his 29 years; and died, as he would have wished, leading his men in a bold and gallant attack on the enemy. -------------- It's a very nice eulogy, and I suspect that when the author wrote "he lived to the full every moment", he may have been thinking of a certain event that happened before the war started... After being awarded a Cadetship to Sandhurst, Royle was commissioned as a Second Lieutenant in the Highland Light Infantry in 1935, but was dismissed the service by General Court Martial! (London Gazette, 10 Mar 1939 refers) After his career as an officer in the HLI had been cut short, he enlisted as a ranker, and subsequently served in the Scots Guards, the Royal Scots and the Recce Corps before transferring to the Glider Pilot Regiment. Specifically... As a Warrant Officer Class 1 in the Scots Guards, was commissioned into the Royal Scots as a 2Lt with effect from 20 Mar 1941. As a 2Lt in the Royal Scots, transferred to the Recce Corps with effect from 21 Mar 1941 As a Lieutenant in the Recce Corps, transferred to the Glider Pilot Regiment with effect from 17 Aug 1942 To help with the genealogy, here are a few other bits and pieces... John Popplewell Royle was born on 25 Feb 1918, and was son of Major John Bedward Royle of the South Wales Borderers. He entered the King's School, Canterbury through the Junior School in 1922, and his marriage announcement from The Times of 6 Dec 1939 read as follows: --------------- MR J P ROYLE AND MRS C D FORBES The marriage took place recently in London between John Popplewell, only son of the late Major J B Royle and of Mrs Royle, and Christian Dorothy, elder daughter of the late Major A D Forbes-Gordon, of Rayne and Greenknowe, and of Mrs Forbes-Gordon. ---------------- Christian Dorothy Royle was born on 9th May 1910, and she re-married five years after the death of her husband, as per The Times of 19 Sep 1950: -------------- GRATTAN : ROYLE. On Aug 31, 1950, quietly, in Gibraltar, LT CMDR JOHN CHARLES GRATTAN, DSC, RN, younger son of the late Lt Col J Grattan and the late Mrs Grattan, to Mrs CHRISTIAN DOROTHY ROYLE, elder daughter of the late Major A. D Forbes- Gordon, of Rayne and Greenknowe, and Mrs Forbes- Gordon, and widow of Major J P Royle, the Glider Pilot Regiment. --------------- As Major Royle died on 20 Sep 1944 at Arnhem, you may find him mentioned in some of the many books about Arnhem and Operation Market Garden. He certainly crammed a lot into his unfortunately short life... Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

Would some kind person do a look up for me please in the Soldiers Died in the Second World War CD-ROM. Major John Royle who was killed at Arnhem in September 1944. I do intend to purchase the disc eventually to look up the men of my home town but I am not quite ready yet. I realise this is the wrong war for this List but I hope you will all forgive me just this once. Thanks Peter

I would like to link my grandfather Arthur COOK to his service history but have many conflicting details to make a sensible search. He had 7 children in Ipswich between 1905 - 1922. The birth certificates of the first 5 born 1905/6/7, 1913 & 1916 all show Arthur COOK as a Maltster or Working Maltster. It is not until November, 1919 when he is still shown as a Working Maltster with added information of Ex Pvt. 9th Suffolk Regiment. Family knowledge? is conflicting. Some think he never left England while others say he suffered from the effects of gas until his death aged 96! I have downloaded various medal cards but trying to fit him into the detail is proving difficult. Can anyone advise how I can research this chap while keeping my costs at a reasonable level. Heather

Many thanks to those who kindly responded to my query on this topic on 11 Jan. Thank you. Pam Gardner ----- Original Message ----- From: <greatwar-request@rootsweb.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2007 8:25 AM Subject: GREATWAR Digest, Vol 2, Issue 9 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. MM award and LG (Pam Gardner) > 2. Re: Help please (Maureen Avery) > 3. Re: MM award and LG (Mich G) > 4. Re: MM award and LG (Mike Shingleton) > 5. Re: More about Bertie Evans (Mike Shingleton) > 6. Re: More about Bertie Evans (Mike Shingleton) > 7. Re: MM award and LG (Ken Lees) > 8. Re: Help please (Delilah) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >

Hi I have searched the war memorial sites for James NAYLOR, but i just cant seem to find him. I dont have very much information on him. What i do have is the following James Naylor would say he was born around the 1880 mark. He married in 1909 to a Mary Ellen Young/FINNEY she was a widower. They were married in Prescot Merseyside uk. Now i have been told that he died sept 1917 but i guess it cld of been a few months either side. His daughter was born Dec 1917 and we were told that it was 3 months before her birth that he died. There is also a strange family skeleton in this branch as his daughter was given the name Alice BRIGHAM/ BRIDGHAM (2 spellings)NAYLOR the second name is another surname. Why? so maybe it could be another soldier, but i have not found any of this surname either. Would guess it cld be in the lancashire reg but again this is only a guess. Any help would be most grateful. Best wishes Shell

or try "The Great War Society" or http://www.worldwar1.com/tripwire/smtw.htm ----- Original Message ----- From: <LShurtleff@aol.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, January 08, 2007 7:38 PM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Help please | You are most likely to get a plausible response from a World War One website | such as _www.westernfrontassociation.com_ | (http://www.westernfrontassociation.com) . | | Meanwhile understand that several countries as the war advanced released | service men for work in strategic industries. In Great Britain, these included | coal mining. Skilled workers were often exempted from military service | altogether if they continued to work in their specialties. | | LGS | | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message |

Michelle, someone posted this link to the Western Front Association site: http://web.westernfrontassociation.com/ There is a link to "Virtual Battlefields" - many American cemeteries are included - no names given but the number of non US bodies buried in each are shown. Well worth a look in any case. Regards, Dave Mich G wrote: > Hi listers > Can anyone help this lady who sent the following email to the Cheshire list? .. > > I am looking for an ancestor of mine killed at Battle of Somme 1916, Bertie Evans, from London. I believe he is mentioned in an American cemetery where he is buried. I have tried Commonwealth War graves but can't seemed to find him. Is there anywhere else I could search? > > I suggested the SoldiersWho died in the Great War CD, but she doesn't have access to it, so can anyone on this list help? I'm afraid she doesn't have much more info to go on other that a relative says he was definitely buried in France. > Any help welcome. > Thanks. > Best wishes > Michelle > > > > Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Pam, Conventional wisdom generally states 2-3 months as the norm, however there can be very wide variations. I looked at one Gazette recently in which two MM awards were announced to men in the same infantry brigade. One was for an event 3 months earlier, the other 15 months earlier. Regards, Ken -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Pam Gardner Sent: 10 January 2007 08:42 To: greatwar@rootsweb.com Subject: [GREATWAR] MM award and LG Can anyone help with the likely interval of time between a recommendation for the award of the Military Medal and the Gazetted notice? The idea is to attempt to search the appropriate war diary for some indication as to the possible events/action leading to the award? If it helps with comments on this the date I am interested in is November 1916 , guessing that the time lag could be partly dependant on the amount of activity at the time. Many thanks Pam Gardner ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Michelle does she mean this man? http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=1541561 If so the details from SDGW are South Staffordshire Regiment 2nd Battalion EVANS Bert Private 25369 born. Blackheath Staffs enlisted. Warley Essex resident. Blackheath Staffs Died date. 28/04/1917 Died how. Killed in Action Theatre of War. France & Flanders His date of death and battalion would mean he was killed during the third phase of the Battle of Arras. Regards Mike Shingleton -----Original Message----- From: Mich G <mushypin@yahoo.co.uk> Sent Subject: [GREATWAR] More about Bertie Evans > Hi listers > Firstly my thanks to those of you who have already replied to my > request - your help is gratefully received. > I have just heard from the lady researching Bertie Evans that he > was in the South Staffs Regt and is commemorated at Arras. > Does that help at all? > Thanks again > Regards > Michelle > > --------------------------------- > New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. > Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Pam Normally about 2-3 months. I've had good results looking at the war diaries for such entries. Good luck in your research. Mike Shingleton -----Original Message----- From: Pam Gardner <pgassoc@tiscali.co.uk> Sent Subject: [GREATWAR] MM award and LG > Can anyone help with the likely interval of time between a recommendation > for the award of the Military Medal and the Gazetted notice? The idea is to > attempt to search the appropriate war diary for some indication as to the > possible events/action leading to the award? If it helps with comments on > this the date I am interested in is November 1916 , guessing that the time > lag could be partly dependant on the amount of activity at the time. > Many thanks > Pam Gardner > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi In the case of my relative, he earned himself the MM on July 3rd-4th 1916, was officially awarded it in mid-August but received it in December that year when he was back home from the front for a while. Hope that helps. Regards Michelle Pam Gardner <pgassoc@tiscali.co.uk> wrote: Can anyone help with the likely interval of time between a recommendation for the award of the Military Medal and the Gazetted notice? The idea is to attempt to search the appropriate war diary for some indication as to the possible events/action leading to the award? If it helps with comments on this the date I am interested in is November 1916 , guessing that the time lag could be partly dependant on the amount of activity at the time. Many thanks Pam Gardner ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

Thankyou John At least you have given me food for thought. Trouble is I don't think he was in the army before 1914 but as I said before I don't really know. He was 27 in 1914 and according to various baptismal records of his children he was occupied in the smelting industry (gold and silver).Would this be among the reserved occupations? I have understood that it was a hospital at Seaford and to my knowledge he never served in prison. I assume therefore that he suffered in France and his work was deemed important enough to warrant him being discharged. As for regiment I have no idea. I do have a photo of a small group of men in uniform with whom I believe my grandfather is standing but it is not clear what the badge is. Possibly the Royal Fusiliers. Thanks once again for your help Maureen > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Can anyone help with the likely interval of time between a recommendation for the award of the Military Medal and the Gazetted notice? The idea is to attempt to search the appropriate war diary for some indication as to the possible events/action leading to the award? If it helps with comments on this the date I am interested in is November 1916 , guessing that the time lag could be partly dependant on the amount of activity at the time. Many thanks Pam Gardner

Hi listers Firstly my thanks to those of you who have already replied to my request - your help is gratefully received. I have just heard from the lady researching Bertie Evans that he was in the South Staffs Regt and is commemorated at Arras. Does that help at all? Thanks again Regards Michelle --------------------------------- New Yahoo! Mail is the ultimate force in competitive emailing. Find out more at the Yahoo! Mail Championships. Plus: play games and win prizes.

Medal card of Evans, Herbert E Corps: East Lancashire Regiment Regiment No: 1868 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/6 Medal card of Evans, Herbert Corps: Cheshire Regiment Regiment No: 65840 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/6 Medal card of Evans, Herbert Corps: Cheshire Regiment Regiment No: 46877 Rank: Private... 1914-1920 WO 372/6 Medal card of Evans, Herbert Corps: Cheshire Regiment Depot Regiment No: 37791 Rank: Private 1914-1920 WO 372/6 Are the only Cheshire Regiment Evans on the Medal Index. Aye Malcolm

Hi listers Can anyone help this lady who sent the following email to the Cheshire list? .. I am looking for an ancestor of mine killed at Battle of Somme 1916, Bertie Evans, from London. I believe he is mentioned in an American cemetery where he is buried. I have tried Commonwealth War graves but can't seemed to find him. Is there anywhere else I could search? I suggested the SoldiersWho died in the Great War CD, but she doesn't have access to it, so can anyone on this list help? I'm afraid she doesn't have much more info to go on other that a relative says he was definitely buried in France. Any help welcome. Thanks. Best wishes Michelle Send instant messages to your online friends http://uk.messenger.yahoo.com

Maureen It is very difficult to comment without a lot more facts, for example his dob, profession and regiment. The most obvious explanation is that he had been in the army for a considerable time before the war and had done his time with the Colours and was, in Aug 1914, part of the reserves. He would have been recalled and sent to France with the BEF but when his period of engagement was completed he would have been quite free to chose whether to re-enlist of return to being a civilian. The army were actually very strict at observing the terms of engagement and never coerced men to do further service when their obligations had been fulfilled. If he was older than usual his services as a trainer for new recruits would have been in demand and if he had returned from France with an injury his assignment as a trainer to see out his last year or so of obligation would be highly likely. Another reason could have been that he had a particular expertise or had been in one of the reserved occupations so that his civilian employment was seen as more pressing than active service in France. Typical occupations for such men were postman, munitions worker, local government officer, policemen, railwayman - all these were in great demand at home because so many men had volunteered and left for France leaving a huge labour crisis which could not always be filled by women - He could for example have been engaged in processing the call up papers for the millions who were being conscripted in Jan 1916. A further thought is that having been awol several times he had been charged, convicted and put in prison and given a dishonourable discharge. This is of course all supposition There are so many possible explanations regards John In message <001101c73376$9e983080$0200a8c0@acer684c9a655d>, Maureen Avery <maureen.avery@btinternet.com> writes >My grandmother left a notebook which stated that in Aug (1914) war >broke out and that my grandfather went away Aug.5th. He was out in >France until Feb.1915.When he came home he was stationed at Dover. He >appears to have been stationed there until Jan. 1916 when he was then >sent to Seaford from which place he was discharged to return to work. > >I know very little about my grandfather since his marriage broke up and >no one spoke his name. > >There are two or three things which puzzle me. I have taught First >World War and recruitment and understood that the army was very >reluctant to allow soldiers to leave especially in 1916 when they >brought in conscription. So why was he allowed to leave and return to >work. Am I right in thinking he must have had some trauma during the >first few months of the war. I don't think he was badly injured as some >people were but then I don't really know. >Grandmother doesn't mention anything about injuries. In fact she seemed >to think he was making out he was ill. Taking bitterness into account >this was not necessarily so. He went absent from barracks about three >times before he was discharged. > >I simply want to get a more accurate picture of my grandfather. His >records are not at Kew probably destroyed. Surely if he was among the >Old Contemptibles he would have been in the standing army. Where might >he have gone away to on Aug 5th? Why was he discharged at suvch a >crucial time?I'd be grateful for any views on this. > >Maureen > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- John Chapman

Maureen Men could be discharged due to sickness or wounds, or they could be recalled if they were in what was later called (WW2) a reserved occupation. Your grandfather's medal roll entry may give some clue as to what happened. Kind regards Mike Shingleton -----Original Message----- From: Maureen Avery <maureen.avery@btinternet.com> Sent Subject: [GREATWAR] Help please > My grandmother left a notebook which stated that in Aug (1914) war > broke out and that my grandfather went away Aug.5th. He was out in > France until Feb.1915.When he came home he was stationed at Dover. > He appears to have been stationed there until Jan. 1916 when he was > then sent to Seaford from which place he was discharged to return to work. > I know very little about my grandfather since his marriage broke up and no one spoke his name. > There are two or three things which puzzle me. I have taught First > World War and recruitment and understood that the army was very > reluctant to allow soldiers to leave especially in 1916 when they > brought in conscription. So why was he allowed to leave and return > to work. Am I right in thinking he must have had some trauma during > the first few months of the war. I don't think he was badly injured > as some people were but then I don't really know. > Grandmother doesn't mention anything about injuries. In fact she > seemed to think he was making out he was ill. Taking bitterness into > account this was not necessarily so. He went absent from barracks > about three times before he was discharged. > I simply want to get a more accurate picture of my grandfather. His > records are not at Kew probably destroyed. Surely if he was among > the Old Contemptibles he would have been in the standing army. Where > might he have gone away to on Aug 5th? Why was he discharged at > suvch a crucial time?I'd be grateful for any views on this. > Maureen > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My grandmother left a notebook which stated that in Aug (1914) war broke out and that my grandfather went away Aug.5th. He was out in France until Feb.1915.When he came home he was stationed at Dover. He appears to have been stationed there until Jan. 1916 when he was then sent to Seaford from which place he was discharged to return to work. I know very little about my grandfather since his marriage broke up and no one spoke his name. There are two or three things which puzzle me. I have taught First World War and recruitment and understood that the army was very reluctant to allow soldiers to leave especially in 1916 when they brought in conscription. So why was he allowed to leave and return to work. Am I right in thinking he must have had some trauma during the first few months of the war. I don't think he was badly injured as some people were but then I don't really know. Grandmother doesn't mention anything about injuries. In fact she seemed to think he was making out he was ill. Taking bitterness into account this was not necessarily so. He went absent from barracks about three times before he was discharged. I simply want to get a more accurate picture of my grandfather. His records are not at Kew probably destroyed. Surely if he was among the Old Contemptibles he would have been in the standing army. Where might he have gone away to on Aug 5th? Why was he discharged at suvch a crucial time?I'd be grateful for any views on this. Maureen