Steve, In the First War the "dog=tags" had the regiment and the regimental number. At some time in the 1930s all soldiers were given an army number and the regimental numbers were discontinued. The RN went through the same process, up to then each man had a ship's book number which he acquired on joining a ship. For admin purposes the RN ship continued to use the Ship's book number as well as the service number. My guess looking at the number, is that your grandfather was a regular soldier and was serving at the time of the conversion. The most useful bit of info would be the name of the regiment he served with. Regards Jim -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of David Dixon Sent: 18 April 2007 05:03 To: greatwar@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Meaning of WW I Dog Tag Issue Steve, may not be much help, but the "c e" was most likely his religious denomination. The number: either army number or regimental number. As there was no blood type information, I would guess a WW1 tag. As far as I know the "Black & Tans" were supporting the British side - I don't think they were regulars. Regards, Dave Steve Hillier wrote: > Dear List Help needed? > My Grandfather was in both First and Second then live till he was 86. I have > always been meaning to track down his war records, but really haven't a clue > how to go about it, British Army both times and then in the Irish upraising > Black & Tans so my father says. Was also stationed overseas in India my > Grandmother & Aunt was also with him Aunt said she was two so it would have > been 1922 -23 I don't know. > > I have access to a dog tag with numbers 1041352 c e on the second line > bottom line Hillier W > > What and how do I get something from this info. > > Cheers > > Steve > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many thanks to those who explained the system in place during 1916, it helps to understand the rules in place at that time. Kate

Thank you John, my grandfather was 30 and married so that answers a bit. The attestation was at his local town - EPSOM, surrey I have his attestation from the Surrey Recruitment register - and it shows my grandfather/mother's address. So I think that bit is right. On the medal cards he was the only one with his surname with correct Christian name + the second initial. Category 38 was stated on recruitment register. Kate

On Tue, 17 Apr 2007 11:39:24 +1000, "Kate" <kburns2@bigpond.com> wrote: >I have the Attestation record of my Grandfather which gives a Regiment >as Royal Engineers in 1916. I understand that part. I had found two >possible medal cards for him but > >The first gave an Enlistment date of 1917 and with the Royal West >Kent Regiment > >and the second no enlistment date at all, although the Royal West Kent >Regiment is stated. It rather sounds as though you have three different men - soldier A from the Royal Engineers, soldier B from the Royal West Kents who was enlisted in 1917, and soldier C who was also from the Royal West Kents. In your grandfather's "attestation record", is his regimental number given? If so, you can do a search for that in the Medal Index Card database, and you may find that he is recorded under a different variation of his name, eg Harry Smith instead of Henry G Smith. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

Hello I am sorry to have to ask a question that may seem silly. However, here goes: I have the Attestation record of my Grandfather which gives a Regiment as Royal Engineers in 1916. I understand that part. I had found two possible medal cards for him but The first gave an Enlistment date of 1917 and with the Royal West Kent Regiment and the second no enlistment date at all, although the Royal West Kent Regiment is stated. Would the two events be separate? I know (from WWII) that what men joined up was not ultimately where they served i.e. my father joined the army as a driver, and served/died as a gunner on a ship. Could this be a similar situation? Obviously I would like to get records (if available) for my grandfather but realise many do not exist now. I accept I shall have to record Served with .... but want to get it right. Sorry to be so long winded. Kate

Attestation is when the man swears allegiance to King and country etc - in nomal times this was done when the man enlisted. However under the terms of the Derby Act all single men of a certain age had to register at their local town hall between 28th October and 31st December 1915 and thereafter when they reached the age of 18. When they registered they were either classed as a foreigner, medically unfit or dead (yes that's true) or required to attest and given four choices - join up immediately, go to the B Reserve and await call up, or promise to do these two things. If you chose the first two you were offered a choice of regiment (or navy). They began the call up in March 1916 but they do not seem to have taken much notice of choice as the numbers completely overwhelmed the bureaucracy. I can only assume from what you have written that he reached 18 in 1916 or was married (and was required to register after May 1916). and then was called up in 1917 - it usually took at least 3 months between registration (and attestation) and call up (ie enlistment) It is possible that he did his attestation at an RE depot. The other possibility is of course that if you have obtained copies of records from the National Archives you have got two different men. Regards John In message <004101c78091$419fe680$b4518690@KATE>, Kate <kburns2@bigpond.com> writes >Hello I am sorry to have to ask a question that may seem silly. >However, here goes: > >I have the Attestation record of my Grandfather which gives a Regiment >as Royal Engineers in 1916. I understand that part. I had found two >possible medal cards for him but > >The first gave an Enlistment date of 1917 and with the Royal West >Kent Regiment > >and the second no enlistment date at all, although the Royal West Kent >Regiment is stated. > >Would the two events be separate? > >I know (from WWII) that what men joined up was not ultimately where >they served i.e. my father joined the army as a driver, and >served/died as a gunner on a ship. Could this be a similar situation? > >Obviously I would like to get records (if available) for my >grandfather but realise many do not exist now. I accept I shall have >to record Served with .... >but want to get it right. > >Sorry to be so long winded. > >Kate > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- John Chapman

This is a fabulous effort, and I know others overseas are envious that these records are freely available. The new specific search for name records is particularly good, as it helps filter out common words that might appear as surnames - I have had fun trying to do a general archives record search on my wife's ancestors the Royals ! * while you filter the results, I still find it quicker to do a general record search, where you can specify given names at the same time. This normally also picks up the other various files (court martial records, pay files, gratuity files, war bride records etc) at the same time if these exist. This may not suit everyone of course * you have to be very careful with names and possibilities (as in all genealogy). People often did not enlist in their full name; (e.g. Jack Smith instead of John Alexander Smith); it appears to have been particularly common in some countries at the time to refer to someone by the reverse order of their given names (e.g. Alexander Claude Smith might actually refer to himself as Claude Alexander Smith). I use whatever clues I have in the search - places of birth; likely next of kin. Of course there are cases where the person uses a false name (deliberately) or an incorrect name (innocently - yes I have one !) which are really hard to find. * for new searchers, it should be remembered that the Australian Forces in WW1 were regarded as part of the British Army by recruits - thus there would be many "Australians" who would have enlisted in non-Australian units, because they happened to be in New Zealand, Britain, South Africa etc at the time. * all the Commonwealth Boer (South African) War records are also digitized - note that this is only the soldiers who enlisted in the Commonwealth period, and not those that enlisted earlier during the state period. * some later records have also been digitized, although this is patchy - occasionally some army/air force WW2 records have been digitized, and what seems to be some navy records. You just have to see what comes up. Cheers Peter Gibson Queanbeyan NSW -----Original Message----- From: greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:greatwar-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of greatwar-request@rootsweb.com Sent: Thursday, 12 April 2007 5:22 PM To: greatwar@rootsweb.com Subject: GREATWAR Digest, Vol 2, Issue 66 Today's Topics: 1. A Gift to the Nation - Australian War Records for WW1 (patrick holland) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2007 22:54:51 +0800 From: patrick holland <lambeth@it.net.au> Subject: [GREATWAR] A Gift to the Nation - Australian War Records for WW1 To: GREATWAR@rootsweb.com Message-ID: <461CF6BB.5070205@it.net.au> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Good evening, The National Archives of Australia has just announced a , Gift to the Nation project. The service records of 376,000 Australians who fought in WW1 have been digitized and are now available online. http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/gift-to-the-nation.html Enjoy. Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia. ------------------------------ To contact the GREATWAR list administrator, send an email to GREATWAR-admin@rootsweb.com. To post a message to the GREATWAR mailing list, send an email to GREATWAR@rootsweb.com. __________________________________________________________ To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the email with no additional text. End of GREATWAR Digest, Vol 2, Issue 66 ***************************************

Hi could someone please do a lookup for Robert Mclaughlin corporal 43440 21st,Bn,West Yorkshire Regt.Prince of Wales Own. Died 23rd July 1917 aged 25. thanks very much Janette

Ypres - French Ieper - Flemish Ypern - German Wipers - Tommy on 14/4/07 5:42 PM, John Drewell at johndrewell@telus.net wrote: > could YPERN be the Flemish spelling of YPRES? > > John Drewell in Vancouver BC > ==================== > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Delilah" <diamond6468@mindspring.com> > To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:15 AM > Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] WW1 Signboard > > >> don't know if I can be of any help, but would like a photo fo the sign - >> end >> to my e-mail - I got some old books on WW1, I can check them but can I >> have >> a photo of it, just for me to have >> delilah >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Earl Chapman" <earl.chapman@sympatico.ca> >> To: "Great War MailList" <Greatwar-L@rootsweb.com> >> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:37 AM >> Subject: [GREATWAR] WW1 Signboard >> >> >> | We have a WW1 trench sign on display in the Officers' Mess of the Black >> Watch of Canada in Montreal. It consists of two boards mounted to a post. >> The top board is rectangular with the engraved name "PASSCHENDAELE", while >> the lower board is shaped like an arrow with the engraved name "YPERN 12.5 >> Km". It would therefore appear that the sign was located at or near >> Passchendaele with the lower arm pointing in the general direction of >> Ypres. >> It was always thought that the sign was taken as a war souvenir from >> either >> a British or Canadian trench following the Battle of Passchendaele (3rd >> Ypres), but the use of the term "YPERN" is strange. As far as I can tell, >> "Ypern" is the term (exonym) used by the Germans for "Ypres". This would >> suggest that the sign was originally erected by the Germans. Also, the >> use >> of kilometers also suggests German origin, as British, Canadian or >> Australian troops would have miles. >> | >> | I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to shed some light >> on >> this sign. >> | >> | Regards, >> | Earl Chapman >> | Montreal, Canada >> | >> | ------------------------------- >> | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> | >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

You may be interested to know that all the names on the refurbished Vimy Memorial can be viewed at http://www.vac-acc.gc.ca/remembers/sub.cfm?source=memorials/cbmr/wall_stone_display# It will take a bit of practice to find a name but it can be done. The names are in alphabetical order, but within each letter they are ranked: thus Majors come before Captains who come before Sergeants, with the lowly Privates last, of course. Is any other Memorial available for viewing in this way? Peter

could YPERN be the Flemish spelling of YPRES? John Drewell in Vancouver BC ==================== ----- Original Message ----- From: "Delilah" <diamond6468@mindspring.com> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] WW1 Signboard > don't know if I can be of any help, but would like a photo fo the sign - > end > to my e-mail - I got some old books on WW1, I can check them but can I > have > a photo of it, just for me to have > delilah > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Earl Chapman" <earl.chapman@sympatico.ca> > To: "Great War MailList" <Greatwar-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:37 AM > Subject: [GREATWAR] WW1 Signboard > > > | We have a WW1 trench sign on display in the Officers' Mess of the Black > Watch of Canada in Montreal. It consists of two boards mounted to a post. > The top board is rectangular with the engraved name "PASSCHENDAELE", while > the lower board is shaped like an arrow with the engraved name "YPERN 12.5 > Km". It would therefore appear that the sign was located at or near > Passchendaele with the lower arm pointing in the general direction of > Ypres. > It was always thought that the sign was taken as a war souvenir from > either > a British or Canadian trench following the Battle of Passchendaele (3rd > Ypres), but the use of the term "YPERN" is strange. As far as I can tell, > "Ypern" is the term (exonym) used by the Germans for "Ypres". This would > suggest that the sign was originally erected by the Germans. Also, the > use > of kilometers also suggests German origin, as British, Canadian or > Australian troops would have miles. > | > | I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to shed some light > on > this sign. > | > | Regards, > | Earl Chapman > | Montreal, Canada > | > | ------------------------------- > | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > | > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

don't know if I can be of any help, but would like a photo fo the sign - end to my e-mail - I got some old books on WW1, I can check them but can I have a photo of it, just for me to have delilah ----- Original Message ----- From: "Earl Chapman" <earl.chapman@sympatico.ca> To: "Great War MailList" <Greatwar-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2007 9:37 AM Subject: [GREATWAR] WW1 Signboard | We have a WW1 trench sign on display in the Officers' Mess of the Black Watch of Canada in Montreal. It consists of two boards mounted to a post. The top board is rectangular with the engraved name "PASSCHENDAELE", while the lower board is shaped like an arrow with the engraved name "YPERN 12.5 Km". It would therefore appear that the sign was located at or near Passchendaele with the lower arm pointing in the general direction of Ypres. It was always thought that the sign was taken as a war souvenir from either a British or Canadian trench following the Battle of Passchendaele (3rd Ypres), but the use of the term "YPERN" is strange. As far as I can tell, "Ypern" is the term (exonym) used by the Germans for "Ypres". This would suggest that the sign was originally erected by the Germans. Also, the use of kilometers also suggests German origin, as British, Canadian or Australian troops would have miles. | | I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to shed some light on this sign. | | Regards, | Earl Chapman | Montreal, Canada | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message |

We have a WW1 trench sign on display in the Officers' Mess of the Black Watch of Canada in Montreal. It consists of two boards mounted to a post. The top board is rectangular with the engraved name "PASSCHENDAELE", while the lower board is shaped like an arrow with the engraved name "YPERN 12.5 Km". It would therefore appear that the sign was located at or near Passchendaele with the lower arm pointing in the general direction of Ypres. It was always thought that the sign was taken as a war souvenir from either a British or Canadian trench following the Battle of Passchendaele (3rd Ypres), but the use of the term "YPERN" is strange. As far as I can tell, "Ypern" is the term (exonym) used by the Germans for "Ypres". This would suggest that the sign was originally erected by the Germans. Also, the use of kilometers also suggests German origin, as British, Canadian or Australian troops would have miles. I'd appreciate hearing from anyone who might be able to shed some light on this sign. Regards, Earl Chapman Montreal, Canada

On Fri, 13 Apr 2007 11:13:56 +0100, "Laffey" <laffey@blueyonder.co.uk> wrote: >I know that in Pozières there is a memorial to the missing who died on the Somme from 21 March to 7 August 1918 > >Does anyone know if there is a memorial to the missing for the period AFTER 7th August 1918? > >I am specifically interested in the missing from the area around Peronne and St Quentin during late August and September 1918 I believe that the Vis-en-Artois Memorial is the one you want: ---------- http://www.cwgc.org/search/cemetery_details.aspx?cemetery=79200&mode=1 Cemetery: VIS-EN-ARTOIS MEMORIAL Country: France Location Information: Vis-en-Artois and Haucourt are villages on the straight main road from Arras to Cambrai about 10 kilometres south-east of Arras. Within the grounds of Vis-en-Artois British Cemetery, which is west of Haucourt on the north side of the main road, will be found the Vis-en-Artois Memorial. Historical Information: This Memorial bears the names of over 9,000 men who fell in the period from 8 August 1918 to the date of the Armistice in the Advance to Victory in Picardy and Artois, between the Somme and Loos, and who have no known grave. They belonged to the forces of Great Britain and Ireland and South Africa; the Canadian, Australian and New Zealand forces being commemorated on other memorials to the missing. The Memorial consists of a screen wall in three parts. The middle part of the screen wall is concave and carries stone panels on which names are carved. It is 26 feet high flanked by pylons 70 feet high. The Stone of Remembrance stands exactly between the pylons and behind it, in the middle of the screen, is a group in relief representing St George and the Dragon. The flanking parts of the screen wall are also curved and carry stone panels carved with names. Each of them forms the back of a roofed colonnade; and at the far end of each is a small building. ----------- Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

Hello all I know that in Pozières there is a memorial to the missing who died on the Somme from 21 March to 7 August 1918 Does anyone know if there is a memorial to the missing for the period AFTER 7th August 1918? I am specifically interested in the missing from the area around Peronne and St Quentin during late August and September 1918 Thanks Sue Laffey

Good evening, The National Archives of Australia has just announced a , Gift to the Nation project. The service records of 376,000 Australians who fought in WW1 have been digitized and are now available online. http://www.naa.gov.au/the_collection/gift-to-the-nation.html Enjoy. Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia.

For your information my grandfather and my great-uncles were all volunteers in WW1 and all saw active service for the duration - 1914 to 1918. My grandfather fought in the trenches in France and Belgium, including the battles of the Somme and Ypres. He was blown up and gassed but was lucky enough not to be badly hurt; he lived to the age of 82. He never spoke of the horror of it all - the majority didn't. I never said that the men who fought shouldn't be honoured and I think that there should be a far better way of honouring the men who fought than to give a state funeral to just one survivor who may not have even seen active service. I doubt my grandfather would feel very honoured by that. Diane

Lest We Forget. http://www.cabarfeidh.com/infquotes.html Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia

Diane and List, before I hit the delete key on this message, I just had to write a note and put in my feelings, too- you sound so bitter, Diane - and I don't know why, but I hope you were just having a bad day - or perhaps this subject hits a nerve with you due to something related to it in your family,etc. I hope you realize that the way your email sounded, it hurt a lot of us with grandfathers and other family who fought in that [and every] war. I know of men who were in battle only weeks, before having to be hospitalized - but that doesn't mean they also shouldn't be honored. Some of those in the military came home alive, but they were forever changed. Putting on a uniform and vowing to head into the unknowns of wartime is not something anyone can imagine unless they were there. It does no good to continue the strife - please reconsider the feelings of many others who are proud of their ancestors who have been blessed with a long life. And in the U.S.A., we do honor those who died in the battle - that is what our Veterans Day is for: the 11th hour of the 11th day of the 11th month - and we hold all our veterans in honor on Memorial Day. God bless them all, Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: Diane wynne To: greatwar@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, April 07, 2007 6:05 PM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] Surviving WWI Veterans - are they alive? I couldn't care less how many so called veterans are still alive. Any of these are unlikely to have fought in any of the really dreadful battles where millions of young men lost their lives. These veterans should count themselves lucky. As to giving the last survivor a state funeral, I find this really sick. Again what about the millions who died fighting; they are the ones who should be honoured. Diane

I couldn't care less how many so called veterans are still alive. Any of these are unlikely to have fought in any of the really dreadful battles where millions of young men lost their lives. These veterans should count themselves lucky. As to giving the last survivor a state funeral, I find this really sick. Again what about the millions who died fighting; they are the ones who should be honoured. Diane