LEST WE FORGET. Harry Patch who is 109 to-day. An ex Tommy from WW1, Harry, gives a rare, vivid and honest eye witness account of what it was really like to fight in the trenches in the so called GREAT war. http://www.bbc.co.uk/history/worldwars/wwone/last_tommy_gallery_03.shtml Patrick Holland. Perth Western Australia

Geoff - the return of AWOL men to France was the norm; normally escorted by the MP to the point of embarkation and then handed over to Draft Conducting Officers. As I understand it such men were escorted direct to their unit and not sent via Base Depots. Various clauses of King's Regulations 1912 are relevant, but particularly 503 (notification in Regimental Orders), 514 & 515 (reports to Civil Police), 536 (escorts / removal orders), 1504 (embarkation returns) ... etc. It was the Civil Police who normally made enquiries about an AWOL man and then carried out an arrest if he was found - then handing him over to the Military. I regularly see Police reports in AWOL men's service records - often making not entirely relevant comments about things like local gossip about his wife or the woman he had been living with ! - A common theme - but if they couldn't just report that they'd caught the man I suppose they felt obliged to say something. The vast majority of men who went AWOL did so in the UK, mainly (probably) because it seems to have been relatively difficult to get back here from France without the necessary paperwork ............... not impossible though - for example 4/9170 George Hunter of the 2nd DLI managed it, though subsequently caught and returned to his unit, he was executed 2/7/16. regards - Tom Tulloch-Marshall WW1 Military Research website > http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/index.html

Two queries in one day! Does anyone know of a case where a deserter in the UK was returned to the Western Front? Regards Geoff Foster _www.thinblueline.org.uk_ (http://www.thinblueline.org.uk) (still being rebuilt)

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated Regards, Joe Hiya Joe, If you look at http://memorabilia.homestead.com/CW_ARSTALL.html which leads you to his service record http://memorabilia.homestead.com/CW_Arstall2.html which shows the scenario that you may have with your man. Charles enlisted into the 'Manchester Regiment (Territorial Force)' 10th December 1915, age 20 years and 5 months. On 24th January 1916 he was mobilized for service, posted Private 4587 to 1st/6th Battalion. 15th October 1916 posted Private 41502 Kings (Liverpool) Regiment, 8th November 1916 embarked from Devonport to Salonika. On 4th December 1916 disembarked at Salonika to Infantry depot, where on 18th December 1916 posted to 14th Battalion. 31st October until 11th November 1917 he was admitted into 68th Field Ambulance R.A.M.C. with scabies. 21st April to mid May 1918 admitted to Convelescence Unit Number 63 General Hospital suffering Malaria. 24th July 1918 posted Private 79724 to 'B' Company, 11th Battalion, The Welsh Regiment. Wounded in the attack on Pip Ridge 23rd September 1918, admitted to 31st Casualty Clearing Station, where at age 23 years old he died of wounds on 23rd September 1918. Charlie was initially buried at Janes Military Cemetery a few miles north of Sarigol. In February 1921, 560 graves were moved and re-interred at Sarigol Military Cemetery, Kriston, Greece. He remains buried there today and his grave can be found in, Row 'B', Grave 306. You will notice he was in three different regiments before being KIA even the papers reporting his death thought he was still in the first regiment he served in. Hope this explains by comparison for you. Alan ... Alan T... {East Midlands UK} Please visit our family genealogy site:- http://www.forefathers.homestead.com/

Geoff - CWGC have a very good picture at > http://www.cwgc.org/CWGCImgs/Helles%20Memorial.JPG If you look at the "T's & C's" (terms and conditions) page on their website you will see that they are pretty relaxed about use of material which is their direct copyright - an e-mail to them asking permission and explaining your purpose might solve your problem. regards - Tom Tulloch-Marshall WW1 Military Research website > http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/index.html

Hello list I have found the following details for someone I'm researching on the CWGC site: V. Sharkey died 05/04/1920 / buried Bradford Cemetery Private / Royal Welch Fusiliers 4th Bn. / service no 57294 Secondary Regiment: Labour Corps / service no 581327 (and death registered in Bradford confirms first name is Vincent) I also have the info from his medal card on the National Archives site: Vincent Sharkey Notts & Derby Regiment / Pte / service no 6183 Labour Corps / Pte / service no 581327 With the same Labour Corps service no. for both records, they must surely be for the same man. So I'm confused. What was his previous regiment? Or did he serve in all three? I'm wondering if any of the experts on this list, with experience of the reliability of the different sources, might care to speculate on the more likely scenario. Information from the family says that having previously served in the Boer War, Vincent landed at Rouen on 09/08/1914 with the British Army. This seems to indicate the Royal Welch; but it was their 2nd Battalion which landed in Rouen in August 1914 (not the 4th as given by CWGC, which were formed later - info from 'The Long, Long Trail' site). More confusion! Would men have been transferred from one battalion to another within a regiment? Any ideas would be greatly appreciated Regards, Joe

WWI 'grave' revives forgotten battlehttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6735365.stmhttp://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6734385.stm By Phil Mackie BBC News Archaeologists say there is "compelling" evidence they have found the mass burial site of British and Australian troops who were killed during World War I. They believe the bodies of up to 400 soldiers remain in unmarked graves in northern France near the site of the Battle of Fromelles. It is the largest discovery of its kind and the Australian, British, French and German authorities must now decide whether to proceed with a mass exhumation of the soldiers' remains. The Battle of Fromelles was an unmitigated disaster. It was conceived as a ruse to divert German attention away from the campaign on the Somme in July 1916. _________________________________________________________________ Hotmail to go? Get your Hotmail, news, sports and much more! Check out the New MSN Mobile! http://mobile.msn.com

Does any kind soul have their own private photograph of the Helles Memorial which they would be prepared to let me use on my website? Regards Geoff Foster _www.thinblueline.org.uk_ (http://www.thinblueline.org.uk) (slowly being rebuilt)

Hi JK, My knowledge is in matters of WWII, my uncle was in the 1st Battalion, The Cameronians (Scottish Rifles) and when not wearing their capbadge they wore the 'black' hackle with blacked webbing and black chevrons for the NCO's and he tells me they were often mistaken for The Black Watch, they never wore the their capbadge & hackle together, unlike my other uncle who was in the Lancashire Fusiliers whom wore both capbadge & hackle at the same time. The Black Watch wore a 'red' hackle and of course their tartan would be different. I do not know about the Camerons, so is it possible they had 'blacked' equipment thus again being mistaken for the Black Watch by the uninitiated in matters of Scottish Military? I can only assume that WWI would be similar between the above three Scottish Regiments mentioned. All the best, Alan ... Alan T... {East Midlands UK} Please visit our family genealogy site:- http://www.forefathers.homestead.com/ Would anyone happen to know what Scottish Regiments were stationed at Warminster at the end of the war? Or how to find out? I am researching a soldier who was reputed to have been in the Black Watch, though I can't find his name in the medal rolls for that regiment, only Cameron Highlanders. He married my great aunt in Warminster 1921. Many thanks

Ref Forrest's suggestion of the Army Veterinary Corps for the man in photo #1, could the piece if kit hanging down on the man's left hip be some kind of hobble belt ? (horse, hobbling, for the use of). Maybe somebody with a knowledge of matters equestrian could help ? With the man in photo #2 the shoulder flash at first seems to end in "C", but then looking at the shape of his cap badge, and his other kit generally ..................... could it in fact be "G" ? - And if the letter before it was a "D", which I think is quite possible, how about he's serving with the 5th (Princess Charlotte of Wales's) Dragoon Guards (the badge is the correct shape for the 1902-22 pattern). regards - Tom Tulloch-Marshall WW1 Military Research website > http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/index.html

Would anyone happen to know what Scottish Regiments were stationed at Warminster at the end of the war? Or how to find out? I am researching a soldier who was reputed to have been in the Black Watch, though I can't find his name in the medal rolls for that regiment, only Cameron Highlanders. He married my great aunt in Warminster 1921. Many thanks _________________________________________________________________ The next generation of Hotmail is here! http://www.newhotmail.co.uk

HI Janice et al, Thanks for this. I'll check out the site. JIM On Friday 15 June 2007 02:51, Janice Duke wrote: > Hi Jim/Listers, > > Here is the an email I received today from the U. S. Library of Congress > re: WW I POWs > > Janice > USA > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <hssref@loc.gov> > To: <mshx@optonline.net> > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 2:16 PM > Subject: Library Question - Answer [Question #2551249] > > > Hello janice duke > > > > > > > > > > Hello, > > > > I am unaware of a published list of American prisoners of war from World > > War One. The National Archives may have original lists of prisoners in > > its collections. > > > > The National Archives > > <http://www.archives.gov> You may also call the National Archives at > > (301)713-7250, or toll free at (866)272-6272 or email at > > inquire@archives.gov > > > > Record Group 120, Records of the American Expeditionary Forces, contains > > information on prisoners in these sections: > > Section 120.4.1 Records of the Adjutant General > > Section 120.7.4 Records of the General Staff > > Section 120.14.6 Records of the American Section of the Permanent > > International Armistice Commission (PIAC) > > You can access the finding aid for Record Group 120 here: > > <http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/120.html> > > > > Thank you. > > > > W. Elsbury > > Reference Specialist > > Main Reading Room > > Humanities and Social Sciences Division > > Library of Congress > > 101 Independence Ave. SE > > Washington, DC 20540-4660 > > 202-707-3399 > > > > ----------------------- > > > > Question History: > > > > Patron: I am looking for a list of American prisoners of war from World > > War One. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Librarian 1: Hello, > > > > I am unaware of a published list of American prisoners of war from World > > War One. The National Archives may have original lists of prisoners in > > its collections. > > > > The National Archives > > <http://www.archives.gov> You may also call the National Archives at > > (301)713-7250, or toll free at (866)272-6272 or email at > > inquire@archives.gov > > > > Record Group 120, Records of the American Expeditionary Forces, contains > > information on prisoners in these sections: > > Section 120.4.1 Records of the Adjutant General > > Section 120.7.4 Records of the General Staff > > Section 120.14.6 Records of the American Section of the Permanent > > International Armistice Commission (PIAC) > > You can access the finding aid for Record Group 120 here: > > <http://www.archives.gov/research/guide-fed-records/groups/120.html> > > > > Thank you. > > > > W. Elsbury > > Reference Specialist > > Main Reading Room > > Humanities and Social Sciences Division > > Library of Congress > > 101 Independence Ave. SE > > Washington, DC 20540-4660 > > 202-707-3399 > > > > > > > > > > > > To check the status or the history of your library question(s), go to: > > http://www.questionpoint.org/crs/servlet/org.oclc.ask.PatronDirect?&langu > >age=1&email=mshx@optonline.net&qid=2551249 > > > > Please take a moment to fill out a survey at: > > http://www.questionpoint.org/crs/servlet/org.oclc.ask.PatronSurveyForm?&l > >anguage=1&type=ask&qid=2551249 > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for consulting with the Library of Congress Main Reading > > Room/Microform Reading Room. > > > > If you wish to send another question to the Main Reading Room/Microform > > Reading Room please go to our question form at < > > http://www.loc.gov/rr/askalib//ask-main.html >. > > > > For questions not related to humanities or social sciences or the > > microform format, please go to our online help desk at < > > http://www.loc.gov/rr/askalib > and pick a category. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Jim Hatridge Linux User #88484 Ebay ID: WartHogBulletin ------------------------------------------------------ WartHog Bulletin Info about new German Stamps http://www.WartHogBulletin.de Many Enemies -- Much Honor! Anti-US Propaganda stamp collection http://www.manyenemies-muchhonor.info An American in Bavaria http://www.gaubodengalerie.de

On Thu, 14 Jun 2007 17:10:07 +0100, Michael A Lonsdale <mail@michaellonsdale.co.uk> wrote: >One of my Brother-in-laws uncles was awarded the DCM and it was reported >in the London Gazette 3rd October 1918, unfortunately he was killed in >action 2 weeks later. > >57929 Cpl Thomas BALDWIN (machine gun corps) of Burscough, Lancashire >who won the DCM had two brothers and we have 3 photos of 3 different >soldiers but no names on any of them. > >I have put a link to all three photos on >www.mylancashireroots.co.uk/baldwin_text.htm > >Can anybody tell us from the uniforms or the cap badge which one is in >the machine gun corps. Thank you for posting the higher-resolution scans. I agree with others that the cap badge in photo No 3 is that of the Machine Gun Corps. See the photo at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=270132354219 for comparison, and note that the vertical bar that runs down the back of the badge secures the badge to the cap, and is invisible when worn. The other two badges are more difficult, as their shape is much less distinctive. However I suggest that the badge in Photo No 1 is that of the Army Veterinary Corps. The badge for this corps was a laurel wreath, surmounted by a crown, with the initials AVC intertwined within the centre of the wreath. The photo at http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110139056167 nicely illustrates the badge, and I reckon it matches the one in your photo very well, with the exception of the top of the "A". However badges can get bent, which changes the way they reflect the light, or bits can be broken off, so I'm not particularly concerned about this small discrepancy. Forrest -- Forrest Anderson, Edinburgh, Scotland. E-mail: forrest@military-researcher.com Website: www.military-researcher.com Forrestdale Research - Military Genealogical Researcher

Hi Michael, As I mentioned in my last post and I think will all now agree that picture 3 is the Machine Gun Corps. Thanks for the enlarged pictures. This is where my well known trait of 'Jumping In' comes to the fore............again. Picture 2 is NOT that of Royal Artillery [RHA or RFA] as I at first offered. It is very tempting to take a peek at the shoulder title and like to think 'is that last letter a G' ? if so what is the first or preceding letters ?. Picture 1 is also tempting, though I think the belt might be a 'Studio Prop'. I have had my head in my copy of Cox's 'Military Badges of The British Empire 1914-18' and freely admit that with every turn of a page I could find at least a couple of likely offerings for both Picture 1 and 2. So apart from to say with utmost certainty that picture 3 is the MGC picture 1 and 2 remain, for the moment, a mystery. Regards Peter Fellowes ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael A Lonsdale" <mail@michaellonsdale.co.uk> To: <greatwar@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 7:14 PM Subject: Re: [GREATWAR] 3 photos of soldiers > My Thanks to everybody who replied to my posting. I'll get round to > thank you all personally later. > > More or less everybody has asked for a higher resolution scan. > > I scanned the originals at 1200 dpi and that is what I put on line > although I did resize them from 941x1543 to 297x480. > > As requested I rescanned the badge area and the highest I could do it > was 12800dpi but they come out blurred. I'm obviously doing something > wrong. > > I've re scanned them at 4800dpi and all picture are online in their > original size. The cap bage is also in its original size and a reduced > size of approx 1024 x 581 > > Tried the buttons and they were worse than the badges. > > www.mylancashireroots.co.uk/baldwin_text.htm > > Many thanks again > Michael > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Jim/Listers, I received this email from military licon re: WW I POWs today. Janice USA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Military Licon" <military.licon@nara.gov> To: "Janice Duke" <mshx@optonline.net> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 10:34 AM Subject: Re: Records created by the United States military > Are you looking for a name or the entire list? It is not accessible via > the Internet or by any other electronic means, but we can provide an > electrostatic copy at $.50 per page. The list is in excess of 500 > pages > > TKNenninger > Chief, Modern Military Records > >>>> Janice Duke <mshx@optonline.net> 6/14/2007 9:00 PM >>> > Thanks for your response. How would I be able to obtain access to this > > information?? > > Janice > mshx@optonline.net > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Military Licon" <military.licon@nara.gov> > To: "janice duke" <mshx@optonline.net> > Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 10:14 AM > Subject: Re: Records created by the United States military > > >> Yes >> >> TKNenninger >> Chief, Modern Military Records >> >>>>> janice duke <mshx@optonline.net> 6/12/2007 6:12 PM >>> >> >> This question was submitted via the Main Inquire Form >> by a user of the National Archives web site. >> >> >> DATE SUBMITTED: >> Tuesday, 6/12/2007 at 6:12 pm EST >> >> QUESTION TOPIC: >> Records created by the United States military >> >> QUESTION TEXT: >> Is there a list of American prisoner's of war from World War One??? >> Thanks, >> Janice >> mshx@optonline.net >> >> CUSTOMER'S NAME: >> janice duke >> >> CUSTOMER'S EMAIL ADDRESS: >> mshx@optonline.net >> >> CUSTOMER'S MAILING ADDRESS: >> 31 maple place >> - >> hicksville, NY >> 11801 >> United States >> >> PHONE: 516-937-1222 >> FAX: 516-937-1222 >> >> >

Hi Michael, As Tom says, the clincher is indeed the cap badge and with the enhanced resolution, there is no doubt that picture no 3 is of a man in the Machine Gun Corps..... Regards H. Daniel Secretary, OVLH&HS www.ovlhs.co.uk huw@ovlhs.co.uk Michael A Lonsdale wrote: > My Thanks to everybody who replied to my posting. I'll get round to > thank you all personally later. > > More or less everybody has asked for a higher resolution scan. > > I scanned the originals at 1200 dpi and that is what I put on line > although I did resize them from 941x1543 to 297x480. > > As requested I rescanned the badge area and the highest I could do it > was 12800dpi but they come out blurred. I'm obviously doing something wrong. > > I've re scanned them at 4800dpi and all picture are online in their > original size. The cap bage is also in its original size and a reduced > size of approx 1024 x 581 > > Tried the buttons and they were worse than the badges. > > www.mylancashireroots.co.uk/baldwin_text.htm > > Many thanks again > Michael > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

My Thanks to everybody who replied to my posting. I'll get round to thank you all personally later. More or less everybody has asked for a higher resolution scan. I scanned the originals at 1200 dpi and that is what I put on line although I did resize them from 941x1543 to 297x480. As requested I rescanned the badge area and the highest I could do it was 12800dpi but they come out blurred. I'm obviously doing something wrong. I've re scanned them at 4800dpi and all picture are online in their original size. The cap bage is also in its original size and a reduced size of approx 1024 x 581 Tried the buttons and they were worse than the badges. www.mylancashireroots.co.uk/baldwin_text.htm Many thanks again Michael

On 15/06/07, George Smith <airforce@localdial.com> wrote: > I don't think any are of the Machine Gun Corps as they all appear to be > wearing Spurs which would indicate to me the are all from different > regiments of cavalry. My grandfather enlisted in the Dorsetshire yeomanry. However, he ended up in the infantry as I believe cavalry/yeomanry units were not viable throughout WW1 So your relatives could also have started in such units and been transferred. I have a similar picture of my grandfather, taken when he first volunteered in similar uniform (especially the puttees) but none taken later during the war. Diane

".................>> wearing Spurs which would indicate to me the are all from different regiments of cavalry." > In the context of a WW1 photograph of a British Soldier the idea that because he is wearing spurs means that he "must" have been in the Cavalry / Yeomanry etc holds about as much water as (with the man in photo two for example) - he has an Army walking cane so he "must" have been an officer (if only I had a pound for every time I've heard that !). You have to remember that you are talking of an era when the horse was still a primary form of transport and locomotion in the army. Remember also that photographers used "props". The cap badges are the key - so lets see the cap badges ! regards - Tom Tulloch-Marshall WW1 Military Research website > http://www.btinternet.com/~prosearch/index.html

I don't think any are of the Machine Gun Corps as they all appear to be wearing Spurs which would indicate to me the are all from different regiments of cavalry. My father was in the MGC in WWI. The badge of the Corps was crossed Machine Guns surmounted by a crown. None of your pics seem to have that badge At 17:10 6/14/2007 +0100, you wrote: >One of my Brother-in-laws uncles was awarded the DCM and it was reported >in the London Gazette 3rd October 1918, unfortunately he was killed in >action 2 weeks later. > >57929 Cpl Thomas BALDWIN (machine gun corps) of Burscough, Lancashire >who won the DCM had two brothers and we have 3 photos of 3 different >soldiers but no names on any of them. > >I have put a link to all three photos on >www.mylancashireroots.co.uk/baldwin_text.htm > >Can anybody tell us from the uniforms or the cap badge which one is in >the machine gun corps. > >Many thanks > >Michael > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GREATWAR-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > Regards George. George Smith <airforce@localdial.com> Home Page: http://web.localdial.com/users/airforce LRFHS Page: http://www.lrfhs.org.uk Jersey Island Page: http://www.jerseyvirtual.net Jersey Insight http://www.jerseyinsight.com Jersey Centenary Battle of Flowers: http://www.localdial.com/users/airforce/battle.html