[Sorry if this is a bit long, but I thought I needed to explain a bit more were I am up to]. Hi Elaine, Tom and List, Thanks to both of you for your reply. For 12 years now I have been trying to identify which John GRAINGER married Isabella BOWIE. The only definite information I have on my 2 x Great Grandfather John GRAINGER / GRANGER is that he married Isabella BOWIE on 22 Jan 1850 in St Cuthbert's Church, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland. According to the IGI John GRAINGER was born 30 Jul 1826 in Cupar, Fife, Scotland. For many year the IGI did not show a place of birth but recently Cupar has been added (I assume from the 1881 Census that shows he was born in Cupar). This information comes from the LDS with the follow note: - "LDS Church membership record of a deceased person. The original records cannot be sent to family history centres. The records of members who died before 1988 can be viewed at the Family History Library. These records cannot be photocopied. Information for members who died after 1988 is available only on the Internet version of the IGI. Married women may be indexed under their maiden or married surnames. Early LDS Church ward or branch records. The entry may be hard to find because the source does not have a page number index and because the names, dates, and places may be different on the film than in the IGI entry." The IGI for the British Isles show 45 John GRAINGER / GRANGER born / christened between 1824 and 1828 any of who could be "My" John. If anyone one the list can identify any of these as being connected to their Line I would appreciate it if you could let me know as it will help me to eliminate some of the 45 John GRAINGER / GRANGER that are shown. I have had 2 professional researcher have a look for a John GRAINGER / GRANGER 30 Jul 1826. One researcher had a look in Cupar and the other in Edinburgh and both reported their is no birth or christening of a John GRAINGER / GRANGER on 30 Jul 1826. There is a John GRAINGER recorded as being in the Fife Militia and DURHAM's Defencibles (the DURHAM Defencibles regiment was named for Col. James DURHAM and was disbanded in 1799) so he might that the father of "my" John. It is possible that the John who was in the Fife Militia and DURHAM's Defencibles was born in Scotland, somewhere in England or Ireland as the Defencibles were in many places during their short history. The Old Parochial Registers at the General Register Office for Scotland show the following for the christening of John's 2nd child (1st daughter): - 18th February 1852 John GRAINGER Ship Porter residing at No. 1 Cumberland Street Lane and Isabella BOWIE his Spouse had a Daughter Born there on the Eight day of January last _ Named Mary Davidina Brown GRAINGER Baptized on the Sabbath Twenty Second February current in St Bernard's Church by the Rev. David BROWN, late minister of the Scottish Church in Liverpool. Page 583. It would seem that Mary was named after the Rev. David BROWN and because the Rev. BROWN was "late minister of the Scottish Church in Liverpool" maybe there is a connection of "my" GRAINGER / GRANGER back to Liverpool or some other place in England or Ireland where the Fife Militia and DURHAM's Defencibles were. The help of Elaine, Tom or anyone else on the Lists who can help me to identify my 2 x Great Grandfather John GRAINGER / GRANGER would be very much appreciated. Talk to you later. Best regards, Ian Butterworth. Reservoir Victoria Australia ----- Original Message ----- Sent: Sunday, August 01, 2004 1:26 PM Subject: Re: [GRAINGER] Hugh GRANGER / GRAINGER and Agnes BROWN of Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland Hi List, On the Family Search IGI there is a John GRANGER who was born (I think this may have been a baptism) 25 Jun 1824 at Saint Cuthbert's, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland. His parents are shown as Hugh GRANGER and Agnes BROWN the details are "extracted". The FreeCEN 1841 census shows the family: - Piece: SCT1841/685/2 Place: Edinb.St Andrew-Midlothian Enumeration District: 88 Civil Parish: St Cuthbert's Ecclesiastical Parish, Village or Island: St Cuthbert's Folio: 88 Page: 2 Address: Castle Bank ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Surname First name(s) Sex Age Occupation Where Born Remarks GRAINGER Hugh M 40 Carter Outside Census County (1841) GRAINGER Agnes F 40 Midlothian GRAINGER John M 15 Midlothian GRAINGER Elisabeth F 10 Midlothian GRAINGER Margret F 8 Midlothian GRAINGER Agnes F 12 Midlothian GRAINGER Jenet F 6 Midlothian BROWN James M 35 Carter Midlothian You will also notice that there is a James BROWN living with the family (may be a brother of Agnes?). For 10 year I have been trying to ID my 2 x Great Grandfather John GRAINGER who married Isabella BOWIE on 22 Jan 1850 in Saint Cuthbert's, Edinburgh, Midlothian, Scotland. I think I may finally found "my" 2 x Great Grandfather John GRAINGER with the help of FreeCEN. Now the 2 child (first daughter) was baptised Mary Davidina Brown GRAINGER by the Rev. David BROWN (late minister of the Scottish Church in Liverpool. Is there anyone on the List who is connected to Hugh GRANGER and Agnes BROWN or any of there descendants? If there is I would sure love to hear from you. Talk to you later. Best regards, Ian Butterworth Reservoir Victoria Australia --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.732 / Virus Database: 486 - Release Date: 7/29/2004