Dear Christopher If you are trying to distinguish between possibilities like this, then either autosomal DNA or Y-Chromosome DNA will probably resolve them, depending on how many sibling lines are around and how prepared you are to trace such lines forwards and then to recruit and persuade such folk to take a DNA test. For the British, you may well have to decide that you will pay for the testing, but a 50:50 split during discussions can quite often be successful. As long as you do not regard such testing as cheating! Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 25 March 2016 20:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] A brick-wall shouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Good evening, For the past couple of decades I have been frustrated in not being able to trace one of my maternal lines back. My great-grandmother was a Jane FENN (1880-1970) - one of twenty children to John Fenn (1854-1940) and Jane Hewitt (1858-1920) - married 4 Jul 1875. I have John for sure in the English census images from 1871 to 1911, it being the 1911 census that states that John and Jane had twenty children of which seven had died. I have the baptisms, BMD and census for most of the children - they are not the problem. It is John's parents that are killing me. The 1871 census gives his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth FENN. In 1861, I think I have John living with his Aunt and Uncle - Christmas and Mary Anne Loveday. 1861: RG09/1242 f108 p04 1871: RG10/0654 f706 p38 1881: RG11/0654 f050 p07 1891: RG12/0427 f011 p15 1901: RG13/0445 f070 p43 1911: RG14/2251 RD26 ED01 SN40 John's birth is recorded variously as Leeds (1861), Sheffield (1881, 1891, 1901, 1911) or just Yorkshire (1871) - so the odds are in favour of Sheffield. In his marriage records, John's father is Thomas FENN (labourer). The 1871 census shows his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth (Ancestry shows the surname as Fein - and I can see why - as there is a . above what looks like the i). My main problem is that, other than 1871, I can't find Thomas (b 1831, Yorkshire) and Elizabeth (b 1829, Huntingdonshire). Someone (Ancestry family tree) has found a possible marriage with Elizabeth Andrews (York 23 667, Jun 1846). The mists are because of another Thomas FENN married to an Elizabeth - this one being born in Staffordshire. Any advice and guidance would be VERY welcomed. It is one of the few personal lines I've not been able to drive back into the 18th Century. [By the way - I see John was in the railways - as were most of his brothers.] Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good morning Brian Many thanks for your advice. Maybe autosomal DNA or Y-Chromosome DNA would resolve it. But I cannot afford to pay for DNA tests of any sort. [I have been saving for years for mine - but something else outside of this hobby always seems to need the money.] Maybe if one of the many hundreds of other FENNs from Norfolk is interested in their genealogy, then they may be prepared to pay for a DNA test - and pay for mine. Otherwise I will need to rely on the old-fashioned way. My next step is to repeat my search for any other births of a John FENN in and around Sheffield in Yorkshire around 1854 (all spellings, etc). Maybe more data has appeared since I last looked. Then I will look at the cost-effectiveness of acquiring birth certificates. I have been looking at this for a couple of decades, maybe I will resolve this in the next decade or two, maybe I won't and so leave it to my family to resolve if they choose to try. Many thanks again Regards Chris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Swann via Sent: 26 March 2016 15:55 To: 'Christopher Gray'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] A brick-wall shrouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Dear Christopher If you are trying to distinguish between possibilities like this, then either autosomal DNA or Y-Chromosome DNA will probably resolve them, depending on how many sibling lines are around and how prepared you are to trace such lines forwards and then to recruit and persuade such folk to take a DNA test. For the British, you may well have to decide that you will pay for the testing, but a 50:50 split during discussions can quite often be successful. As long as you do not regard such testing as cheating! Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 25 March 2016 20:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] A brick-wall shouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Good evening, For the past couple of decades I have been frustrated in not being able to trace one of my maternal lines back. My great-grandmother was a Jane FENN (1880-1970) - one of twenty children to John Fenn (1854-1940) and Jane Hewitt (1858-1920) - married 4 Jul 1875. I have John for sure in the English census images from 1871 to 1911, it being the 1911 census that states that John and Jane had twenty children of which seven had died. I have the baptisms, BMD and census for most of the children - they are not the problem. It is John's parents that are killing me. The 1871 census gives his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth FENN. In 1861, I think I have John living with his Aunt and Uncle - Christmas and Mary Anne Loveday. 1861: RG09/1242 f108 p04 1871: RG10/0654 f706 p38 1881: RG11/0654 f050 p07 1891: RG12/0427 f011 p15 1901: RG13/0445 f070 p43 1911: RG14/2251 RD26 ED01 SN40 John's birth is recorded variously as Leeds (1861), Sheffield (1881, 1891, 1901, 1911) or just Yorkshire (1871) - so the odds are in favour of Sheffield. In his marriage records, John's father is Thomas FENN (labourer). The 1871 census shows his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth (Ancestry shows the surname as Fein - and I can see why - as there is a . above what looks like the i). My main problem is that, other than 1871, I can't find Thomas (b 1831, Yorkshire) and Elizabeth (b 1829, Huntingdonshire). Someone (Ancestry family tree) has found a possible marriage with Elizabeth Andrews (York 23 667, Jun 1846). The mists are because of another Thomas FENN married to an Elizabeth - this one being born in Staffordshire. Any advice and guidance would be VERY welcomed. It is one of the few personal lines I've not been able to drive back into the 18th Century. [By the way - I see John was in the railways - as were most of his brothers.] Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message