I'd like some help translating Spanish to English. Background -- in December 1835, the town of San Antonio in the U.S. state of Texas was held by Mexican general Cos and was besieged by people unhappy with the abrogation of the Mexican constitution of 1824 by General Santa Ana. I'm questioning the translation I find for a part of the terms of surrender, specifically article 18. This can be seen with Spanish and English side-by-side here (page 3): http://siegeofbexar.org/capitulation#cap3 Here is the Spanish transcription of article 18 and the English translation I find for it: The Spanish transcription: "Los prisioneros de guerra hechos por los dos exercitos hasta hoy, se pondran en libertad – Habiendo precidido la manifestacion y Canges de las credensiales con que se presentaron los Comisionados para el arreglo de la antecedente Capitulacion nombrado por parte del Sor Comte Gral Ynspector Don Martin Perfto de Cos, El Ayudante Ynsp’or Don Jose, Juan Sanchez, Don Ramon Musquez, y el tente Dn Francisco Rada, Interprete Don Miguel Arsiniega: y por la del Sor Gral Don Edwardo Burlison; El Sor Coronel Don F. W. Johnson, Mayor. R. C. Morris, Capitan James G. Swisher, Interprete Don Juan Cameron y despues de una delatada y seria Cos los diez y ocho articulos que preceden, a propuesta de los del Sor Gral Burlison y a reserva de ser ratificados y aprovados por ambos Generales; En cuya virtud, la firman en la Ciudad de Bexar a los dos de la manana del dia 11 del mes de Deciembre de 1835" The supplied English translation: "The prisoners of both armies, up to this day, shall be put at liberty." "The commissioners, Jose Juan Sanchez, adjutant inspector; Don Ramon Musquiz, and lieutenant Francisco Rada, and interpreter, Don Miguel Arciniega; appointed by the commandant and inspector, general Martin Perfecto de Cos, in connection with colonel F. W. Johnson, major R. C. Morris, and captain J. G. Swisher, and interpreter John Cameron; appointed on the part of general Edward Burleson: after a long and serious discussion, adopted the eighteen preceding articles, reserving their ratification by the generals of both armies." "In virtue of which, we have signed this instrument in the city of Bejar, on the 11th of December, 1835" I don't read Spanish well, but the phrase "Habiendo precidido la manifestacion y Canges de las credensiales con que se presentaron" seems to have been omitted from the translation. thanks, Tom

I don't know if this will help but I put it through the translation on word and it came up with this: Prisoners of war made by the two exercitos until today, are posted in freedom - having precept manifestation and Canges of the credensiales that were presented the Commissioners for the settlement of the antecedent capitulation appointed by the Sor Comte Gral Ynspector Don Martin Perfto of Cos, the Assistant Ynsp'or Don José, Juan Sanchez, Don Ramon Musquez, and the tente Dn Francisco Rada Interpret Don Miguel Arsiniega: and by the of the Sor Gral Don Edwardo Burlison; The Sor Colonel Don F. W. Johnson, more. R. C. Morris, Captain James G. Swisher, interpret Don Juan Cameron and after a serious and delatada Cos the eighteen articles preceding, on the proposal of the of the Sor Gral Burlison and subject to be ratified and approved by both generals; Whereby 11 of the month of December of 1835 sign in Bexar city with the two on the morning of the day Regards Rose Norton Bierton 6008 -----Original Message----- From: tcloud via Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2016 10:11 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [G] help with Spanish translation, please I'd like some help translating Spanish to English. Background -- in December 1835, the town of San Antonio in the U.S. state of Texas was held by Mexican general Cos and was besieged by people unhappy with the abrogation of the Mexican constitution of 1824 by General Santa Ana. I'm questioning the translation I find for a part of the terms of surrender, specifically article 18. This can be seen with Spanish and English side-by-side here (page 3): http://siegeofbexar.org/capitulation#cap3 Here is the Spanish transcription of article 18 and the English translation I find for it: The Spanish transcription: "Los prisioneros de guerra hechos por los dos exercitos hasta hoy, se pondran en libertad – Habiendo precidido la manifestacion y Canges de las credensiales con que se presentaron los Comisionados para el arreglo de la antecedente Capitulacion nombrado por parte del Sor Comte Gral Ynspector Don Martin Perfto de Cos, El Ayudante Ynsp’or Don Jose, Juan Sanchez, Don Ramon Musquez, y el tente Dn Francisco Rada, Interprete Don Miguel Arsiniega: y por la del Sor Gral Don Edwardo Burlison; El Sor Coronel Don F. W. Johnson, Mayor. R. C. Morris, Capitan James G. Swisher, Interprete Don Juan Cameron y despues de una delatada y seria Cos los diez y ocho articulos que preceden, a propuesta de los del Sor Gral Burlison y a reserva de ser ratificados y aprovados por ambos Generales; En cuya virtud, la firman en la Ciudad de Bexar a los dos de la manana del dia 11 del mes de Deciembre de 1835" The supplied English translation: "The prisoners of both armies, up to this day, shall be put at liberty." "The commissioners, Jose Juan Sanchez, adjutant inspector; Don Ramon Musquiz, and lieutenant Francisco Rada, and interpreter, Don Miguel Arciniega; appointed by the commandant and inspector, general Martin Perfecto de Cos, in connection with colonel F. W. Johnson, major R. C. Morris, and captain J. G. Swisher, and interpreter John Cameron; appointed on the part of general Edward Burleson: after a long and serious discussion, adopted the eighteen preceding articles, reserving their ratification by the generals of both armies." "In virtue of which, we have signed this instrument in the city of Bejar, on the 11th of December, 1835" I don't read Spanish well, but the phrase "Habiendo precidido la manifestacion y Canges de las credensiales con que se presentaron" seems to have been omitted from the translation. thanks, Tom _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to Phil Lobley, Veronica Rahorn and Rose Norton of this list. You have been most helpful. If anyone else responded, I missed your email. I now need to convince the Texas State Archives ro review the composite translation below and see if they will modify what they now have. Surely they have access to someone who is skilled at translating these old documents. Here is what I've come up with based primarily on what Phil sent and augmented by Veronica's version -- line breaks added to show the changes from the current translation. Question -- the translations seem to skip over the word "Cos" in the part that reads "y despues de una delatada y seria Cos". I think that should have been written (in Spanish) "con Cos" and then translated "with Cos". I have this in parenthesis below. The composite translation -- additional comments solicited: "The prisoners of war of both armies, up to this day, shall be put at liberty. "Having proceeded with the disclosure and exchange of credentials with which the Commissioners tasked with arranging the preceding Surrender introduced themselves; they, the commissioners appointed by the commandant and inspector general Martin Perfecto de Cos: Jose Juan Sanchez, adjutant inspector; Don Ramon Musquez, and lieutenant Francisco Rada, and interpreter, Don Miguel Arciniega; and those appointed by general Edward Burleson: colonel F. W. Johnson, major R.C. Morris, and captain J. G. Swisher, and interpreter John Cameron - after a long and serious discussion (with Cos ?), adopted the eighteen preceding articles, reserving their ratification by the generals of both armies. "In virtue of which, we have signed this instrument in the city of Bejar, at 2 o'clock a.m. this day the 11th of December, 1835. Again, this can be seen here on my web site: http://siegeofbexar.org/capitulation And the Texas State Archives site: https://www.tsl.texas.gov/treasures/republic/bexar/cos3.html thanks again, Tom On 4/16/2016 4:04 AM, Rose Norton wrote: > I don't know if this will help but I put it through the translation on > word and it came up with this: > > Prisoners of war made by the two exercitos until today, are posted in > freedom - having precept manifestation and Canges of the credensiales > that were presented the Commissioners for the settlement of the > antecedent capitulation appointed by the Sor Comte Gral Ynspector Don > Martin Perfto of Cos, the Assistant Ynsp'or Don José, Juan Sanchez, > Don Ramon Musquez, and the tente Dn Francisco Rada Interpret Don > Miguel Arsiniega: and by the of the Sor Gral Don Edwardo Burlison; The > Sor Colonel Don F. W. Johnson, more. R. C. Morris, Captain James G. > Swisher, interpret Don Juan Cameron and after a serious and delatada > Cos the eighteen articles preceding, on the proposal of the of the Sor > Gral Burlison and subject to be ratified and approved by both > generals; Whereby 11 of the month of December of 1835 sign in Bexar > city with the two on the morning of the day > > Regards > Rose Norton > Bierton 6008