Susan, Hezekiah - according to the Hebrew Bible, the son of Ahaz and the 13th king of Judah - is possible. Dai Bevan Gilbourne ONS On 10/02/2015 16:45, Susan Cater via wrote: > I am transcribing baptisms from Find My Past for my Stearmans and Tonothys. > I am currently going through "STEERMAN" and have come across an odd first > name. It is the father's name and he resided in Ovington, Norfolk. His name > is variously transcribed as 'Heshibiah' 'Heshelbah' and 'Heshetrak'. I'm > assuming its a Biblical name but Google can't help. Can anyone tell me what > the name might be? > > Many thanks, > > Susan Cater > 4437 > Stearman and Tononthy One-Name Studies >

Hi Susan I think it is probably Hezekiah, 13th king of Judah in the Old Testament. June Willing Guild of One-Name Studies member no 2117 Willing/Willings One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/Willing/ Willing/Willings DNA Project http://www.familytreedna.com/public/Willing/ Dominicus One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/dominicus/ On 10 Feb 2015, at 16:45, Susan Cater via wrote: > I am transcribing baptisms from Find My Past for my Stearmans and > Tonothys. > I am currently going through "STEERMAN" and have come across an odd > first > name. It is the father's name and he resided in Ovington, Norfolk. > His name > is variously transcribed as 'Heshibiah' 'Heshelbah' and 'Heshetrak'. > I'm > assuming its a Biblical name but Google can't help. Can anyone tell > me what > the name might be? > > Many thanks, > > Susan Cater > 4437 > Stearman and Tononthy One-Name Studies > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GOONS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message

I am transcribing baptisms from Find My Past for my Stearmans and Tonothys. I am currently going through "STEERMAN" and have come across an odd first name. It is the father's name and he resided in Ovington, Norfolk. His name is variously transcribed as 'Heshibiah' 'Heshelbah' and 'Heshetrak'. I'm assuming its a Biblical name but Google can't help. Can anyone tell me what the name might be? Many thanks, Susan Cater 4437 Stearman and Tononthy One-Name Studies

Also possibly a version of Hashabiah, "whom God regards". Ann Hyde ONS On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 12:02 PM, Dai & Angela Bevan via <goons@rootsweb.com > wrote: > Susan, > Hezekiah - according to the Hebrew Bible, the son of Ahaz and the 13th > king of Judah - is possible. > > Dai Bevan > Gilbourne ONS > > On 10/02/2015 16:45, Susan Cater via wrote: > > I am transcribing baptisms from Find My Past for my Stearmans and > Tonothys. > > I am currently going through "STEERMAN" and have come across an odd first > > name. It is the father's name and he resided in Ovington, Norfolk. His > name > > is variously transcribed as 'Heshibiah' 'Heshelbah' and 'Heshetrak'. I'm > > assuming its a Biblical name but Google can't help. Can anyone tell me > what > > the name might be? > > > > Many thanks, > > > > Susan Cater > > 4437 > > Stearman and Tononthy One-Name Studies > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

It is might be Hephzibah, but it is a female name. It used on two occasions in the bible. The wife of King Hezekiah and as a symbolic name for Zion. Jim On Tue, Feb 10, 2015 at 11:45 AM, Susan Cater via <goons@rootsweb.com> wrote: > I am transcribing baptisms from Find My Past for my Stearmans and Tonothys. > I am currently going through "STEERMAN" and have come across an odd first > name. It is the father's name and he resided in Ovington, Norfolk. His name > is variously transcribed as 'Heshibiah' 'Heshelbah' and 'Heshetrak'. I'm > assuming its a Biblical name but Google can't help. Can anyone tell me what > the name might be? > > Many thanks, > > Susan Cater > 4437 > Stearman and Tononthy One-Name Studies > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Jim James M. Owston, EdD Owston One-Name Study #5647 owston@one-name.org http://www.one-name.org/cgi-bin/search.cgi?find=5647

Actually Debbie, we do have a national rep. for Ireland - me! Fiona Tipple — 5538 - (Duignan & variants) and RR - Ireland > On 9 Feb 2015, at 22:20, Debbie Kennett via <goons@rootsweb.com> wrote: > > Jennie > > New Zealand only has one rep to cover the whole country unlike Australia > which has regional reps to cover all the different states. I understood that > the reps in Australia didn't want a national rep. The reps in Australia > already do a fantastic job. We don't have national reps for England, > Scotland, Wales and Ireland either. It seems to me that we probably have too > many regional reps and I'm sure the system could be streamlined to reduce > the workload. > > Debbie > > -----Original Message----- > From: goons-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:goons-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Jennie Fairs via > Sent: 09 February 2015 21:50 > To: goons@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [G] Chairmans News Flash > > Interesting that a National Rep for NZ is advertised when one for Australia > was deemed not needed. > > Jennie Fairs > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Interesting that a National Rep for NZ is advertised when one for Australia was deemed not needed. Jennie Fairs -----Original Message----- From: Debbie Kennett [mailto:debbiekennett@gmail.com] Sent: Tuesday, 10 February 2015 2:16 AM To: 'mingay'; goons@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [G] Chairmans News Flash Tony I've just discovered that the minutes of the last Committee meeting are up on the website: http://www.one-name.org/members/minutes.html There is a list of situations vacant here: http://www.one-name.org/cgi-bin/members/sitsvac.cgi The minutes do not seem to reveal the names of the people who are standing down from Committee at the AGM or the names of the people who have indicated that they are willing to stand for Committee in 2015. I have a feeling it's something to do with the Constitution and they're not allowed to reveal the names, which is yet another reason to get the Constitution updated as soon as possible. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: goons-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:goons-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mingay via Sent: 05 February 2015 23:40 To: GOONS Forum Subject: [G] Chairmans News Flash Hi All, Is there anywhere where there is a list of prospective committee members or at least who is still 'standing/willing' to stand. As indicated by the recent News Flash that several of the 'old' committee are no longer able/willing to serve next year. I have tried the Minutes of the 31 Jan 2015 meeting but as of yet they are not available, even in draft form. Regards Tony Anthony John MINGAY, now in NZ once of Kent & Suffolk, England but still researching Worldwide the surname MINGAY & its variants. http://www.mingayhistory.co.uk.

The reason no announcement has been made re who the new Committee Members are is that the Constitution says the announcement will be made at the AGM. We are proposing a change but the Committee and Officers must abide but what is currently in place. If you come to my session at this years Conference more will be revealed. Peter Hagger Manager Constitutional Review Manager

Jennie New Zealand only has one rep to cover the whole country unlike Australia which has regional reps to cover all the different states. I understood that the reps in Australia didn't want a national rep. The reps in Australia already do a fantastic job. We don't have national reps for England, Scotland, Wales and Ireland either. It seems to me that we probably have too many regional reps and I'm sure the system could be streamlined to reduce the workload. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: goons-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:goons-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jennie Fairs via Sent: 09 February 2015 21:50 To: goons@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [G] Chairmans News Flash Interesting that a National Rep for NZ is advertised when one for Australia was deemed not needed. Jennie Fairs

I would suggest it might have been a Michael Graham LAWS. Assuming marriage would have been between 1880 and 1887 gives just 1 for a LAWS to an Edith, a Michael Graham LAWS in Hackney district in 1885. Good timing for a 1886 birth and the match on Graham as a middle name suggests to me Ernyst could well be the son of this couple (the other 2 on the page were Philip OVER and Emma CARD; looking for all Philip OVERs in the 1891 census, Ancestry index, shows only one old enough - and his wife was Emma, stepson Francis Card, so I think we can be pretty sure Michael and Edith married). There was a Michael Graham LAWS born Clerkenwell district 1851, and I'd suggest this was Edith's husband. 1861 census shows his father was Michael G LAWS, aged 39. MGL seniors death would appear to be Croydon district, 1889, aged 67 - i.e. age matches census. Croydon is as you will know where Ernyst and his brothers were born. Of course Edith could have married MGL senior, and the 'Married' in the census an error. Otherwise married the younger and they had separated. A MGL married in Croydon in 1887 - a latish marriage of senior, or a marriage of junior after divorce (or bigamous after separation?) Unfortunately the probate calendar entry for MGL senior gives no clue, relict not named as executrix. Teresa On 08/02/2015 16:58, John P Laws via wrote: > Hi One-Namers Everywhere, > > Today's search has been for the father of Ernyst Graham LAWS born 1886 > Croydon SRY (Science Teacher, BSc Oxford MA 1st Hon BA Oxford) Died 1974 > Oxford. > > I find him on the 1901 census with his mother Edith LAWS (Married > Schoolteacher)she was born 1863 Bristol, but can't find them in 1891 census. > I did consider that she may have been unmarried but doubted that a single > mother in that time would have been able to put a son through Oxford. > > So who and what was the father? Any Ideas you sleuths. > > John P Laws > > Registrar > Laws Family Register > Putting Flesh on the Bones of History > > wwww.lawsfamilyregisterr.tribalpages.com > > www.lawsandlawes.blogspot.com > > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- ------------------------ Teresa Goatham Sign the petition to open historic BMD registers - http://epetitions.direct.gov.uk/petitions/62779 (UK residents / British citizens only)

Tony I've just discovered that the minutes of the last Committee meeting are up on the website: http://www.one-name.org/members/minutes.html There is a list of situations vacant here: http://www.one-name.org/cgi-bin/members/sitsvac.cgi The minutes do not seem to reveal the names of the people who are standing down from Committee at the AGM or the names of the people who have indicated that they are willing to stand for Committee in 2015. I have a feeling it's something to do with the Constitution and they're not allowed to reveal the names, which is yet another reason to get the Constitution updated as soon as possible. Debbie -----Original Message----- From: goons-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:goons-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of mingay via Sent: 05 February 2015 23:40 To: GOONS Forum Subject: [G] Chairmans News Flash Hi All, Is there anywhere where there is a list of prospective committee members or at least who is still 'standing/willing' to stand. As indicated by the recent News Flash that several of the 'old' committee are no longer able/willing to serve next year. I have tried the Minutes of the 31 Jan 2015 meeting but as of yet they are not available, even in draft form. Regards Tony Anthony John MINGAY, now in NZ once of Kent & Suffolk, England but still researching Worldwide the surname MINGAY & its variants. http://www.mingayhistory.co.uk.

Marie My great great grandmother was born in Kassel and I did some successful research there about 14 years ago, though concerning a later date than you need (late 18th and 19th centuries). The difficulty is that the Allies dropped incendiary bombs on Kassel on the night of 22/23 October 1943, totally destroying the medieval city centre and killing about 10,000 people. One of the bombs scored a direct hit on the city archive. As a result, the registers of all the city parishes for the period from about 1740 to about 1840 are lost - precise dates vary for different parishes. Earlier church registers were and still are in the Hessische Staatsarchiv in Marburg, and survived. Fortunately, the lost registers can be largely reconstructed from a local newspaper, the "Casselische Policey- und Commercien-Zeitung", which from 1731 onwards published weekly lists of baptisms marriages and deaths, taken from the registers. These are thought to be pretty comprehensive, except for illegitimate births, which tend to be recorded anonymously. These lists have been transcribed in 13 large manuscript volumes, entitled "Einwohner und Familien der Stadt Kassel 1731-1839", edited by Helmut Thiele for the Gesellschaft für Familienkunde in Kurhessen und Waldeck e.V.. Copies are available in various libraries in Kassel, but they do not appear to be available on line. If you can find someone in Kassel to do it for you, it would be a straightforward task to extract any Peplers from these volumes - the entries are arranged by initial letter of surname and then by year, separately for each of baptisms, marriages and deaths. The information is less than the register would have given, but still useful. For baptisms, at least in the late 18th and early 19th century, it records the names of the child and the name and occupation of the father. For marriages it records the names of the parties. For burials, name, age and occupation. The week in which the baptism marriage or burial occurred is recorded but not the precise date. We have lost the additional details, especially for marriages, which would have appeared in the original, but what is left is no worse than we would get in an English parish register. For towns and villages around Kassel, microfilms of the church registers are in the Landeskirchliches Archiv in Kassel - I do not know how many have been indexed or can be found online, for instance on FamilySearch. If you can make sense of old German handwriting, there is a project to put images of German Evangelical Church registers, including some from Hessen, online in the near future - see http://www.kirchenbuchportal.de/blog/ (in German). Sadly it looks as if there will be some sort of fee for access. Chris Pitt Lewis On 08/02/2015 20:59, Marie Byatt via wrote: > I too, have a difficult person in my study. I've been working on him for about 6 years now - > his descendents considerably longer. > > He is Jan Hendrick ( Johann Heinrich) Pepler born 1741 in or around Kassel, Hessen, Germany. > There is an IGI batch record that is probably him with a birth in 1739 but neither exact date > or parents are given. In 1759, he went to South Africa where he prospered, married and is > the ancestor of nearly every Pepler in South Africa today. From 1759 onwards, he is very well > documented and revered. > > What we need are his parents. I have DNA results from one of Jan's descendents and they are > a very close match to another German lineage. We are now trying to find a link but without > his parents....... > > I've just finished processing about 1000 Pepler/Peppler/Bepler/Beppler and similar records > from Hessen with no luck. SO any clue is appreciated at this point > > Marie (GOONS 5318) > > > Bringing the world together one surname at a time. > 'A Pepler Name' http://pepler.tribalpages.com > 'Hedgerow - the Ancestors' http://cranberry.tribalpages.com > Pepler DNA Study http://www.familytreedna.com/public/pepler-ow/ > 'Scroops, Scropes and Scroopes' http://dentonlk.tribalpages.com > > > ________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. http://www.avast.com

Hi Bob A very big thank you from Richard and myself for the two CD's. Your help is really appreciated. HATHAWAY/HADAWAY and WHITCHER/WITTIER -----Original Message----- From: Robert Young [mailto:rangerons@gmail.com] Sent: 04 November 2014 02:12 To: GOONS Subject: [G] Marriage Challenge - Essex County, Massachusetts - 1621-1850 Essex County contains many of the initial townships and shires to compose the Massachusetts Bay Colony. This M/C is different from those offered in UK. Please read carefully. You need only submit your registered surname (do not forget to include variants). There is no need to provide a listing of names and/or locations. In the order that I receive them, I will search the available VR's of Essex County for the surnames. All occurrences will be reported - to include births and deaths as well as marriages. Reports will consist of scanned images of pages from the published VR's. NOTE #1: If you are not sure which towns are included in this M/C, you may check at <http://magenweb.org/Essex/towns.htm> NOTE #2: About 90% of the towns have published VR's. I am presently not able to search other towns which have not published. NOTE #3: If you have submitted surnames with previous Massachusetts M/C's, please do not repeat as the records have not changed. This M/C will remain open until 01 March 2015. -- Robert Young Danbury, CT, USA Ranger ONS (2940)

No conflict of occupation there John. A horologist is a watchmaker/clockmaker, and jewellers frequently fixed watches or clocks, so a jewellers assistant could well end up calling themselves a horologist if that is what they specialised in. Corinne Curtis (a jeweller by trade) #5579 On Mon, Feb 9, 2015 at 12:54 AM, John P Laws via <goons@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Thank you Derek and Graham for your help I am a subscriber to both FMP and > Ancestry but even with the data supplied I can't find this record which I > should like to see so as to construct a citation, and comply with some sort > of genealogical proof standard & now finding the father creates more > problems than it solves as I already have a candidate in my database, in > the > data supplied Michael G LAWS gives his occupation as jewellers assistant, > mine Michael Graeme LAWS born same time is a Horologist they both have a > son > Arthur S LAWS both born same year and place, so you see my dilemma. Oh yes > and my guy is married to someone else just cap it all. > > > > > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi John This actually seems straightforward and thanks to L Harris. I had a little trouble with my computer but my hour produced (please double check entries done from memory & spellcheck ignored) Question I what is the difference between a dustman and a cleansing operative, likewise what is the difference between a watchmaker(finisher) jewellery assistant and horologist (studier of clocks /time ) Michael Graham Laws b 1822 married Clare Broom Lucas 1849 Kent (among others son Michael Graham Laws b1852)died 1885 Croydon. MGL (1822) married Sarah Jane Older or Elphick 1889 in Croydon and died in 1891 in Croydon Sarah Jane is traceable in Surrey to at least age 71 MGL (1852) married Edith Sage( b1863 Bristol ) in 1885 in Croydon .MGL appears to have died in Hull in 1931 and Edith in Newcastle under Lyme in 1948. Edith is the daughter of a Baptist minister & spent early years at school & training college in London. -----Original Message----- From: goons-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:goons-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John P Laws via Sent: 09 February 2015 00:55 To: goons@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [G] Today's search Thank you Derek and Graham for your help I am a subscriber to both FMP and Ancestry but even with the data supplied I can't find this record which I should like to see so as to construct a citation, and comply with some sort of genealogical proof standard & now finding the father creates more problems than it solves as I already have a candidate in my database, in the data supplied Michael G LAWS gives his occupation as jewellers assistant, mine Michael Graeme LAWS born same time is a Horologist they both have a son Arthur S LAWS both born same year and place, so you see my dilemma. Oh yes and my guy is married to someone else just cap it all. _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Further to Maria's remark, it can be well worth repeatedly using the "Previous Year" link when on the "Wills and Probate 1996 to present" tab to take you back before 1996 as it will also bring up details of those who died before 1996 but where Probate was much later. I found 3 deaths in 1989, 1989 & 1994 where probate was respectively 2003, 2005 & 1999 that were not found in a search using the 1858-1996 tab. Brian On 08/02/2015 20:00, Maria Robinson via wrote: > Thanks John > > I see that they have now fixed the problem concerning the inability to > locate a will for someone who died in 1995, but did not have probate granted > until 1996, which was the major problem when this first came out in > December. > > Maria > 6393 Belcher, Los and Youle > > -----Original Message----- > From: goons-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:goons-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of John P Laws via > Sent: 07 February 2015 23:11 > To: goons@rootsweb.com > Subject: [G] A New Site for wills > > Hi One-Namers Everywhere > > The Government have made wills available online. The Index is FREE but the > wills themselves are £10 which you can order online but may take up to 4 > weeks to arrive. > The site is at https://probatesearch.service.gov.uk though I found it via a > Google search of Gov.UK/Probate-Wills https://www.gov.uk/search-will-probate > > Regards > John P Laws > > Registrar > Laws Family Register > Putting Flesh on the Bones of History > > wwww.lawsfamilyregisterr.tribalpages.com > > www.lawsandlawes.blogspot.com > > > > > >

1891 census Michael G. Laws Jewellers Assistant born London EC 39 years Edith Laws wife 28 years born Croydon, Surrey Ernest G. Laws 4 years born Croydon, Surrey Robert D Laws 3 years birthplace ditto Arthur S. Laws 2 years birthplace ditto Lodgers at 17 Kingsley Place Heaton, Newcastle-on-Tyne

Hi One-Namers Everywhere It would appear that my problems pale into insignificance when compare to Marie's German problems

Marie, My experience of family history in South Africa is mainly from 1819! Googling Germans to South Africa suggests a website giving some names including your Pepler/Bebler but no further info as to source and I would expect you have already contacted such websites on German immigrants to South Africa. Have you managed to trace descendants of all his children, especially any female lines to see if they retain a family bible. Was there a Death Notice when he died to give his parents names, although I've found on those I have obtained for 1850's that such information was left blank, i.e. the person giving the information did not know. Do you know where he was buried just in case there was a useful gravestone? Do you know why he emigrated, could he have been an orphan and been sent there through an organization along with other young men. Was the place given in his records where he was born or where he left from - some people in America take the place of embarkation as being their ancestor's birthplace :>) Alternatively did he come from a well-off trading family sending their children to other parts of the world to expand their business. Would his religion give any clues as to where papers or letters would have been lodged, either in Germany or South Africa. Have you repeatedly tried Universities/Libraries in case they have found references to him amongst other families business/correspondence to suggest a relationship. Good Luck! From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: merryl.wells@one-name.org GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marie Byatt via" <goons@rootsweb.com> To: <goons@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 08, 2015 8:59 PM Subject: [G] While you're helping John.... >I too, have a difficult person in my study. I've been working on him for >about 6 years now - his descendents considerably longer. > > He is Jan Hendrick ( Johann Heinrich) Pepler born 1741 in or around > Kassel, Hessen, Germany . There is an IGI batch record that is probably > him with a birth in 1739 but neither exact date or parents are given. In > 1759, he went to South Africa where he prospered, married and is the > ancestor of nearly every Pepler in South Africa today. From 1759 onwards, > he is very well documented and revered. > > What we need are his parents. I have DNA results from one of Jan's > descendents and they are a very close match to another German lineage. > We are now trying to find a link but without his parents....... > > I've just finished processing about 1000 Pepler/Peppler/Bepler/Beppler and > similar records from Hessen with no luck. SO any clue is appreciated at > this point > > Marie (GOONS 5318) > > > Bringing the world together one surname at a time. > 'A Pepler Name' http://pepler.tribalpages.com > 'Hedgerow - the Ancestors' http://cranberry.tribalpages.com > Pepler DNA Study http://www.familytreedna.com/public/pepler-ow/ > 'Scroops, Scropes and Scroopes' http://dentonlk.tribalpages.com > > > ________________________________ > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GOONS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Derek and Graham for your help I am a subscriber to both FMP and Ancestry but even with the data supplied I can't find this record which I should like to see so as to construct a citation, and comply with some sort of genealogical proof standard & now finding the father creates more problems than it solves as I already have a candidate in my database, in the data supplied Michael G LAWS gives his occupation as jewellers assistant, mine Michael Graeme LAWS born same time is a Horologist they both have a son Arthur S LAWS both born same year and place, so you see my dilemma. Oh yes and my guy is married to someone else just cap it all.