Absolutely top job, Anne. Well deserving of a gold star to go on your deerstalker hat! Would never have thought of looking at the original page - I had thought that usually on FreeBMD if there's a late registration the cross-reference between the two quarters is noted, but not in this case. Could you tell me where you saw that public tree, please? I don't see it at Ancestry though I do see a Dorothy M B Flowers dying in Q1 1987 in Norwich. I do see a tree containing Albertina and have written to the owner. Paul On Sun, Mar 27, 2016 at 5:04 PM, anne higham <[email protected]> wrote: > > > Hi ~ just to add to this intriguing thread... > > The CRICK child was with it's family in the 1911 census so seems to be ruled > out. > > However there is a birth registration 1908/2 of a Dorothy M B FLOWERS @ > Faversham(sic) registration district. This is handwritten at the foot of > the page & references a late birth registration in 1946(!!)... > > JQ 1946: Dorothy M B FLOWERS Fakenham R.D. (MMN Woods) > > Perhaps the following is a red herring but....the following year a Philip > FLOWERS married a Mary WOODS/DUFFEY. However I can't see how any of this > would help you pinpoint George (?Gordon) HOWES!! > > As an aside - Dorothy was living with her grandmother Albertina in 1931 per > electoral regs. > > In 1911 census I see there were two children with grandmother Albertina > FLOWERS - the other child (Barbara May FLOWERS) was baptised in Heigham, > Norwich; a daughter of Lily FLOWERS. But I can't see any trace of a baptism > for Dorothy. > > Barbara May FLOWERS married and had a child (per public family tree) so > maybe descendants might know something of the circumstances regarding > Dorothy & thus lead to George HOWES. > > What an unusual problem! > > best > Anne H. > 1020 Lyford > > > > > >> -------- Forwarded Message -------- >> Subject: Re: [G] Military help, please >> Date: Thu, 24 Mar 2016 21:31:03 -0400 >> From: Paul Howes <[email protected]> >> Reply-To: Paul Howes <[email protected]>, [email protected] >> To: [email protected] >> >> Post script to enquiry earlier this week. The will I ordered arrived >> just after I left Florida two days ago and I've only had time to look >> at it tonight. Intriguing. >> >> If he died OSB and if it means "without issue", then someone didn't >> tell the paymaster about his will. It's very clear and reads: >> "In the event of my Death I leave the whole of my property and effects >> to Dorothy May Flowers, Lenwade, nr Norwich, Norfolk." >> He signed the will but honestly, I cannot read the initial/first name, >> or rank? It has either been corrected or someone has written on it. >> The surname looks like it might be Hawes but it's Howes elsewhere in >> the document. And it appears to be followed by the letter, G both at >> the top and bottom of the document. >> >> So, even after getting the will, I still cannot figure out who George >> was! If anyone is interested in this problem, I will post the >> original of the will in the WebForum with a restatement of the issues. >> >> I said "intriguing" particularly, because there was a Dorothy May >> Flowers in Lenwade (also known as Great Witchingham) in the 1911 >> census. She's living with a grandmother, age 2, born in Fakenham. >> Her birth registration appears to have been under the surname of >> Crick, in Q2 1908, which would fit a birth of 1.61908 and not 1.6.1918 >> as stated in the Register of Soldiers' effects. There's no >> Flowers/Crick marriage and no death of a female Flowers or Crick of >> child-bearing age in Norfolk in the period from 1908 to 1917. If I >> look at the grandmother, I can see her (albeit with a wide tolerance >> on her year of birth) through several censuses and eight of her nine >> children. Looks like one of the girls was Dorothy's mother. I can >> also now see that Dorothy lived to a ripe old age, dying in 1987 but >> did not marry and her date of birth was . . . .(drum roll, for what >> it's worth) . . . 1 Jun 1908! >> >> I feel like I've just gone back a generation and doubled the number of >> uncertainties without going back a generation! Maybe I'll save some >> pennies and buy the Death Cert for George unless anyone has a better >> idea. >> Thanks again for all the ideas so far >> Paul >> >> www.howesfamilies.com >> Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide >> >> >> >> >> >> > -- Paul Howes Chairman, Guild of One-Name Studies www.one-name.org www.howesfamilies.com Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide

My husband's maternal grandfather is listed, sadly though a closed record until 2021, unless I apply under a FOI request. In the case this chap, a search of 1939 Register has not been successful as yet. Regards, Julie Goucher Sent from my iPad  > On 27 Mar 2016, at 15:01, Adrian Abbott via <[email protected]> wrote: > > Thanks to the Lost Cousins monthly newsletter I found today that the > Home Guard Records for County Durham are searchable on line at the > National Archives: > > http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/durham-home-guard-records-1939-1945/ > > Currently these are apparently the only county to be covered. You can > see the name and date of birth on the index; to see the actual record > by download costs £3.45 each. I found 8 possible ONS entries and > downloaded two of particular interest, because they were people I > hadn't found in the 1939 Register. As a result I now have found > another two Households in the 1939 Register which had been either > mistranscribed, or in one case it seems a complete page escaped being > transcribed. > > The download gives you: Name, Date of Birth, Birthplace (but not > always because the pro-forma changed), are you a British subject?, > Nationality of Parents at birth, Name and address of next of kin, > boxes to tick on understanding what you are committed to, service and > discharge dates and there is a space for things like special merit. I > would think it is only worth the download if you are particularly > interested in next of kin, which is what gave me the clues to find > entries in 1939. > > Adrian > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks to the Lost Cousins monthly newsletter I found today that the Home Guard Records for County Durham are searchable on line at the National Archives: http://nationalarchives.gov.uk/help-with-your-research/research-guides/durham-home-guard-records-1939-1945/ Currently these are apparently the only county to be covered. You can see the name and date of birth on the index; to see the actual record by download costs £3.45 each. I found 8 possible ONS entries and downloaded two of particular interest, because they were people I hadn't found in the 1939 Register. As a result I now have found another two Households in the 1939 Register which had been either mistranscribed, or in one case it seems a complete page escaped being transcribed. The download gives you: Name, Date of Birth, Birthplace (but not always because the pro-forma changed), are you a British subject?, Nationality of Parents at birth, Name and address of next of kin, boxes to tick on understanding what you are committed to, service and discharge dates and there is a space for things like special merit. I would think it is only worth the download if you are particularly interested in next of kin, which is what gave me the clues to find entries in 1939. Adrian

Good morning Brian Many thanks for your advice. Maybe autosomal DNA or Y-Chromosome DNA would resolve it. But I cannot afford to pay for DNA tests of any sort. [I have been saving for years for mine - but something else outside of this hobby always seems to need the money.] Maybe if one of the many hundreds of other FENNs from Norfolk is interested in their genealogy, then they may be prepared to pay for a DNA test - and pay for mine. Otherwise I will need to rely on the old-fashioned way. My next step is to repeat my search for any other births of a John FENN in and around Sheffield in Yorkshire around 1854 (all spellings, etc). Maybe more data has appeared since I last looked. Then I will look at the cost-effectiveness of acquiring birth certificates. I have been looking at this for a couple of decades, maybe I will resolve this in the next decade or two, maybe I won't and so leave it to my family to resolve if they choose to try. Many thanks again Regards Chris -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Swann via Sent: 26 March 2016 15:55 To: 'Christopher Gray'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] A brick-wall shrouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Dear Christopher If you are trying to distinguish between possibilities like this, then either autosomal DNA or Y-Chromosome DNA will probably resolve them, depending on how many sibling lines are around and how prepared you are to trace such lines forwards and then to recruit and persuade such folk to take a DNA test. For the British, you may well have to decide that you will pay for the testing, but a 50:50 split during discussions can quite often be successful. As long as you do not regard such testing as cheating! Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 25 March 2016 20:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] A brick-wall shouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Good evening, For the past couple of decades I have been frustrated in not being able to trace one of my maternal lines back. My great-grandmother was a Jane FENN (1880-1970) - one of twenty children to John Fenn (1854-1940) and Jane Hewitt (1858-1920) - married 4 Jul 1875. I have John for sure in the English census images from 1871 to 1911, it being the 1911 census that states that John and Jane had twenty children of which seven had died. I have the baptisms, BMD and census for most of the children - they are not the problem. It is John's parents that are killing me. The 1871 census gives his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth FENN. In 1861, I think I have John living with his Aunt and Uncle - Christmas and Mary Anne Loveday. 1861: RG09/1242 f108 p04 1871: RG10/0654 f706 p38 1881: RG11/0654 f050 p07 1891: RG12/0427 f011 p15 1901: RG13/0445 f070 p43 1911: RG14/2251 RD26 ED01 SN40 John's birth is recorded variously as Leeds (1861), Sheffield (1881, 1891, 1901, 1911) or just Yorkshire (1871) - so the odds are in favour of Sheffield. In his marriage records, John's father is Thomas FENN (labourer). The 1871 census shows his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth (Ancestry shows the surname as Fein - and I can see why - as there is a . above what looks like the i). My main problem is that, other than 1871, I can't find Thomas (b 1831, Yorkshire) and Elizabeth (b 1829, Huntingdonshire). Someone (Ancestry family tree) has found a possible marriage with Elizabeth Andrews (York 23 667, Jun 1846). The mists are because of another Thomas FENN married to an Elizabeth - this one being born in Staffordshire. Any advice and guidance would be VERY welcomed. It is one of the few personal lines I've not been able to drive back into the 18th Century. [By the way - I see John was in the railways - as were most of his brothers.] Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Merryl I just file all my wills in the way that they were originally, by court in which they were proved, date, and name of testator. I do this for both digital and paper copies. The court is the paper or digital folder so that the file is date, name. Of course if you were dealing with SMITH wills things might have to be a little different, but for my ONS this has always worked from the time I first started collecting them (in the late 1970s). I then cross reference the fact that there is a will from both the person record (in my case still a card index); on the tree (which is digital) and also against their deaths on my file of GRO/SGRO or other Excel list of deaths for other countries. I also have in the digital list of wills (again in Excel) details of other names and places mentioned in the will, so that when searching for say any references to a Samuel, I can find them as Executors or benificiaries etc. These are also noted on their person card. I have since they have been online, printed out the relevant pages from the National Probate Calendar, although I have long had them in manuscript form, copies from the books/microfiche and latterly computers in a Probate Registry. When I acquire extracts or copies of these wills I file them behind these pages, as I always filed them behind my notes. Oh for the days of the Literary Pass in Somerset House which allowed me to examine many of my wills! Kind regards Polly ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merryl Wells via" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Saturday, March 26, 2016 10:57 PM Subject: [G] How to store your ONS Wills? Hi, When I first obtained some wills for my Bawtree ONS I just popped them into a card envelope file but as I acquired more thought it would be better to put them behind the family to which they belonged in my main file. Now I have decided I have more Samuel Bawtrees on my database/Family Tree Maker than actually existed, that quite a number had been widowed and remarried and I've been spending time having to go through all the families that I believe include a Samuel Bawtree to work out which children belong to each one according to their wills - and getting diverted, having just spent over half an hour reading the extensive will of an only daughter/child who didn't seem to have any close living relatives. Think I should remove these wills so they are easier to find on the rare occasions I wish to recheck the information contained within them. So how do other members retain their 'original' copies? If kept in a separate file, how are they arranged, to be quickly found? From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: [email protected] GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst.

Hi Leslie – > I think your John Fenn is from a Norfolk family, and the Yorkshire birth is a bit of a red herring. I am coming around to agreeing with you. Thomas was a recorded as a labourer with no mention of the Army - though he could have worked on the railways. MANY thanks for the work you have done. I shall follow that through. I think I will need a big piece of blank paper to sketch it all out. There is certainly a limit when you only have a screen of 17" and it doesn't allow scribbling at all angles, rubbing-out, etc. Much better on a large piece of backing paper (I have a roll I kept back from decorating). MANY thanks again, Chris From: Leslie Darbyshire [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 26 March 2016 20:48 To: Christopher Gray; goons Subject: Re: [G] A brick-wall shouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Dear Christopher I think your John Fenn is from a Norfolk family, and the Yorkshire birth is a bit of a red herring. You have John living with his uncle and aunt in 1861. These are Christmas Loveday and Mary Ann nee Fenn who married in East Dereham, NFK, 28 Jul 1858. On the marriage cert her father is John Fenn. For them to be uncle and aunt to John Fenn jnr, Mary Ann must be the sister of John jnr's father Thomas. In 1851 Mary Ann Fenn was in service in Norfolk (HO107/1810/f8/p8), she is age 19 and her birth place is given as Hoe, NFK In 1841 she is in Hoe, NFK (HO107/778/bk14/f7/p8) with her family, including brother Thomas age 15 and parents John and Mary In 1851 Thomas is still in Hoe (HO107/1825/f8a/p11) age 27, with his mother (Mary Ann) age 57 shown as wife but no husband recorded there. Checking the births on Family Search, I found the baptisms of Thomas 26 May 1822 and Mary Ann 12 Jun 1831, both in Hoe NFK and both with parents John Fenn and Mary Trollop Thomas must have moved to Yorkshire after 1851 but before 1854 if son John was born there then. Have you details of John's birth - a certificate for instance? There is a marriage 26 Jun 1853 of a Thomas Fenn (father John Fenn) to Martha Ringwood in Calverley, YKS (very near Leeds) - are they John's parents? I wonder why Thomas moved to Yorkshire. Was he in the army at the time - there is a barracks in the area. Or had he got a job on the railway there? I think your 1871 census finding must be another John Fenn as the parents do not tie up at all - maybe the name really is Fein, as written. Hope this helps! Regards Leslie Darbyshire GOONS 3599 researching Brockwell/Brookwell On 25 March 2016 at 20:03 Christopher Gray via <[email protected]> wrote: Good evening, For the past couple of decades I have been frustrated in not being able to trace one of my maternal lines back. My great-grandmother was a Jane FENN (1880-1970) - one of twenty children to John Fenn (1854-1940) and Jane Hewitt (1858-1920) - married 4Jul1875. I have John for sure in the English census images from 1871 to 1911, it being the 1911 census that states that John and Jane had twenty children of which seven had died. I have the baptisms, BMD and census for most of the children - they are not the problem. It is John's parents that are killing me. The 1871 census gives his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth FENN. In 1861, I think I have John living with his Aunt and Uncle - Christmas and Mary Anne Loveday. 1861: RG09/1242 f108 p04 1871: RG10/0654 f706 p38 1881: RG11/0654 f050 p07 1891: RG12/0427 f011 p15 1901: RG13/0445 f070 p43 1911: RG14/2251 RD26 ED01 SN40 John's birth is recorded variously as Leeds (1861), Sheffield (1881, 1891, 1901, 1911) or just Yorkshire (1871) - so the odds are in favour of Sheffield. In his marriage records, John's father is Thomas FENN (labourer). The 1871 census shows his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth (Ancestry shows the surname as Fein - and I can see why - as there is a . above what looks like the i). My main problem is that, other than 1871, I can't find Thomas (b 1831, Yorkshire) and Elizabeth (b 1829, Huntingdonshire). Someone (Ancestry family tree) has found a possible marriage with Elizabeth Andrews (York 23 667, Jun 1846). The mists are because of another Thomas FENN married to an Elizabeth - this one being born in Staffordshire. Any advice and guidance would be VERY welcomed. It is one of the few personal lines I've not been able to drive back into the 18th Century. [By the way - I see John was in the railways - as were most of his brothers.] Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Merryl, I simply file my Wills & Admons by year proved. I have a separate index of testators and people mentioned, plus any property/addresses. Ken On 26 March 2016 at 22:25, Scott Shenton via <[email protected]> wrote: > I do the same as I do about all my sources: convert them to digital files, give them a unique reference number, then key that reference number back to my person or persons. Where you store the physical sources (wills or whatever) is immaterial, but ideally just filed sequentially by the reference number. So you can link either way: if you look at a person’s file and see a source called W037, you can go right to Will #037 (either the digital or the physical copy in folder/envelope #037); if you pull up a specific will (reference W038) you can search for all persons linked to that source. In my home software (Reunion, for Mac computers) every source shows every person linked to that source, making that part quite easy.. > > Scott Shenton (GOONS 5292) > Indialantic, Florida, USA > Shenton one name study http://shenton.tribalpages.com > > > > >> On Mar 26, 2016, at 5:57 PM, Merryl Wells via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi, When I first obtained some wills for my Bawtree ONS I just popped them >> into a card envelope file but as I acquired more thought it would be >> better to put them behind the family to which they belonged in my main file. >> Now I have decided I have more Samuel Bawtrees on my database/Family Tree >> Maker than actually existed, that quite a number had been widowed and >> remarried and I've been spending time having to go through all the families >> that I believe include a Samuel Bawtree to work out which children belong to >> each >> one according to their wills - and getting diverted, having just spent over >> half an hour reading the extensive will of an only daughter/child who didn't >> seem to >> have any close living relatives. >> >> Think I should remove these wills so they are easier to find on the rare >> occasions I wish to recheck the information contained within them. >> >> So how do other members retain their 'original' copies? If kept in a >> separate file, how are they arranged, to be quickly found? >> >> From >> Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. >> E-Mail: [email protected] >> GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, When I first obtained some wills for my Bawtree ONS I just popped them into a card envelope file but as I acquired more thought it would be better to put them behind the family to which they belonged in my main file. Now I have decided I have more Samuel Bawtrees on my database/Family Tree Maker than actually existed, that quite a number had been widowed and remarried and I've been spending time having to go through all the families that I believe include a Samuel Bawtree to work out which children belong to each one according to their wills - and getting diverted, having just spent over half an hour reading the extensive will of an only daughter/child who didn't seem to have any close living relatives. Think I should remove these wills so they are easier to find on the rare occasions I wish to recheck the information contained within them. So how do other members retain their 'original' copies? If kept in a separate file, how are they arranged, to be quickly found? From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: [email protected] GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst.

Hi Paul To expand on my vague statement on the Flowers coincidents Dorothy May Flowers born 1/6/1908 The 1901 cenus has Flowers looking quite similar to Howes as doesGordon's 1901 enlistment form In 1891 if you look under Albertina Flowers you find a Gordon b 1882 with sisters Lily ( who appears to be Dorothy's mother) Bertha,Kate who goes to live in Leeds with more family. There would seem to be a connection to Basford,Notts. Gordon enlisted in the Norfolk Regiment but did he reenlist in 1914 ? Regards Richard

Hi Paul Yesterday I tried for my own interest of trying new sites to work the names through. It produced a number of coincidents In the Flowers family Regards Richard -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Paul Howes via Sent: 25 March 2016 20:17 To: Evelyn O'Connor <[email protected]> Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] Military help, please Very kind of you, Evelyn, as were earlier thoughts from John Hanson and Brian Swann. Thank you Paul On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Evelyn O'Connor <[email protected]> wrote: > Paul, > Your query intrigued me! > > On "The Forces War Records" site, he is listed as Gordon Howes with > the Service No:14301. This is taken from "Soldiers Died in the Great > War 1914-1919" it contains no more information than what has already > been mentioned by you. > > However, "The Genealogist" site , holds records of the Daily Casualty List. > G. Howes Service No 14301 is listed as wounded on 21 October 1916. > The War Office Casualty List announces his death in the the edition of > 19 February 1918. > There is also a link to the CWGC site and the burial of Gordon Howes in Norwich. > > I have looked in vain for the birth of a Gordon Howes c.1888 (also > census returns) as I expect you & many others have. Plenty of > George's. > > I am sorry to have perhaps only added to the confusion. Nevertheless! > > Good hunting & do let us know if you finally resolve this conundrum. > > Kind Wishes. > > Evelyn (Roope/Rope ONS) > > On 25 March 2016 at 02:31, Paul Howes via <[email protected]> wrote: >> Post script to enquiry earlier this week. The will I ordered arrived >> just after I left Florida two days ago and I've only had time to look >> at it tonight. Intriguing. >> >> If he died OSB and if it means "without issue", then someone didn't >> tell the paymaster about his will. It's very clear and reads: >> "In the event of my Death I leave the whole of my property and >> effects to Dorothy May Flowers, Lenwade, nr Norwich, Norfolk." >> He signed the will but honestly, I cannot read the initial/first >> name, or rank? It has either been corrected or someone has written on it. >> The surname looks like it might be Hawes but it's Howes elsewhere in >> the document. And it appears to be followed by the letter, G both at >> the top and bottom of the document. >> >> So, even after getting the will, I still cannot figure out who George >> was! If anyone is interested in this problem, I will post the >> original of the will in the WebForum with a restatement of the issues. >> >> I said "intriguing" particularly, because there was a Dorothy May >> Flowers in Lenwade (also known as Great Witchingham) in the 1911 >> census. She's living with a grandmother, age 2, born in Fakenham. >> Her birth registration appears to have been under the surname of >> Crick, in Q2 1908, which would fit a birth of 1.61908 and not >> 1.6.1918 as stated in the Register of Soldiers' effects. There's no >> Flowers/Crick marriage and no death of a female Flowers or Crick of >> child-bearing age in Norfolk in the period from 1908 to 1917. If I >> look at the grandmother, I can see her (albeit with a wide tolerance >> on her year of birth) through several censuses and eight of her nine >> children. Looks like one of the girls was Dorothy's mother. I can >> also now see that Dorothy lived to a ripe old age, dying in 1987 but >> did not marry and her date of birth was . . . .(drum roll, for what >> it's worth) . . . 1 Jun 1908! >> >> I feel like I've just gone back a generation and doubled the number >> of uncertainties without going back a generation! Maybe I'll save >> some pennies and buy the Death Cert for George unless anyone has a >> better idea. >> Thanks again for all the ideas so far Paul >> >> www.howesfamilies.com >> Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Paul Howes Chairman, Guild of One-Name Studies www.one-name.org www.howesfamilies.com Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I do the same as I do about all my sources: convert them to digital files, give them a unique reference number, then key that reference number back to my person or persons. Where you store the physical sources (wills or whatever) is immaterial, but ideally just filed sequentially by the reference number. So you can link either way: if you look at a person’s file and see a source called W037, you can go right to Will #037 (either the digital or the physical copy in folder/envelope #037); if you pull up a specific will (reference W038) you can search for all persons linked to that source. In my home software (Reunion, for Mac computers) every source shows every person linked to that source, making that part quite easy.. Scott Shenton (GOONS 5292) Indialantic, Florida, USA Shenton one name study http://shenton.tribalpages.com > On Mar 26, 2016, at 5:57 PM, Merryl Wells via <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi, When I first obtained some wills for my Bawtree ONS I just popped them > into a card envelope file but as I acquired more thought it would be > better to put them behind the family to which they belonged in my main file. > Now I have decided I have more Samuel Bawtrees on my database/Family Tree > Maker than actually existed, that quite a number had been widowed and > remarried and I've been spending time having to go through all the families > that I believe include a Samuel Bawtree to work out which children belong to > each > one according to their wills - and getting diverted, having just spent over > half an hour reading the extensive will of an only daughter/child who didn't > seem to > have any close living relatives. > > Think I should remove these wills so they are easier to find on the rare > occasions I wish to recheck the information contained within them. > > So how do other members retain their 'original' copies? If kept in a > separate file, how are they arranged, to be quickly found? > > From > Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. > E-Mail: [email protected] > GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Christopher If you are trying to distinguish between possibilities like this, then either autosomal DNA or Y-Chromosome DNA will probably resolve them, depending on how many sibling lines are around and how prepared you are to trace such lines forwards and then to recruit and persuade such folk to take a DNA test. For the British, you may well have to decide that you will pay for the testing, but a 50:50 split during discussions can quite often be successful. As long as you do not regard such testing as cheating! Brian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 25 March 2016 20:04 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] A brick-wall shouded in heavy mist - the FENNs Good evening, For the past couple of decades I have been frustrated in not being able to trace one of my maternal lines back. My great-grandmother was a Jane FENN (1880-1970) - one of twenty children to John Fenn (1854-1940) and Jane Hewitt (1858-1920) - married 4 Jul 1875. I have John for sure in the English census images from 1871 to 1911, it being the 1911 census that states that John and Jane had twenty children of which seven had died. I have the baptisms, BMD and census for most of the children - they are not the problem. It is John's parents that are killing me. The 1871 census gives his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth FENN. In 1861, I think I have John living with his Aunt and Uncle - Christmas and Mary Anne Loveday. 1861: RG09/1242 f108 p04 1871: RG10/0654 f706 p38 1881: RG11/0654 f050 p07 1891: RG12/0427 f011 p15 1901: RG13/0445 f070 p43 1911: RG14/2251 RD26 ED01 SN40 John's birth is recorded variously as Leeds (1861), Sheffield (1881, 1891, 1901, 1911) or just Yorkshire (1871) - so the odds are in favour of Sheffield. In his marriage records, John's father is Thomas FENN (labourer). The 1871 census shows his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth (Ancestry shows the surname as Fein - and I can see why - as there is a . above what looks like the i). My main problem is that, other than 1871, I can't find Thomas (b 1831, Yorkshire) and Elizabeth (b 1829, Huntingdonshire). Someone (Ancestry family tree) has found a possible marriage with Elizabeth Andrews (York 23 667, Jun 1846). The mists are because of another Thomas FENN married to an Elizabeth - this one being born in Staffordshire. Any advice and guidance would be VERY welcomed. It is one of the few personal lines I've not been able to drive back into the 18th Century. [By the way - I see John was in the railways - as were most of his brothers.] Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I would like to thank those who made suggestions/comments about my Excel problem. Trying to regenerate the information this morning it became apparent that Excel was doing strange things in several respects. Investigation showed there hadn't been any Windows 10 Updates recently so I assumed the Excel program had become corrupted and re-installed it. I then found that the computer had actually stored a copy of the original file before it went crazy - for anyone with the same problem I found it by looking at the File - Properties - Previous Versions. So I've got the correct worksheet back and Excel is back to normal - but I learned a few useful things in the process. Adrian

I've always been doubtful of my ability with Excel so, before performing a Sort operation, I make a copy and never touch the original file. John A Bogie -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian Abbott via Sent: 2016 March 25 13:38 To: GOONS Subject: [G] Disastrous Excel Behaviour I have used Excel 2007 happily for many years, and often Sort spreadsheets. The method is to click on a cell, then Sort, at which point all the columns containing data change colour and one can select what criteria you want. Since having transferred to Windows 10, the only sheet that I have added to my ONS database is my data from the 1939 Register. I have 15 columns of data and about 190 rows. Eventually I decided to Search (I think the first time was to separate the sexes) and noticed that only the first 11 rows changed colour, and eventually found that I had to manually select all the Rows before the search, which had never done before. The earlier Sheets in the same Workbook were not affected and continued to behave as before, but coming back to the files today I find that the 1939 register sheet is now behaving normally, but in the process columns 1 to 11 give rows that are correct, but columns 12 to 15 give rows that are in random order - so for instance a family that appear in correct order in the first columns are all at different addresses. In other words I have now got two part-databases that don't match each other and despite trying to replicate various Searches on the two halves I can't get them to go back to the original. It may be that I did a Search without noticing that all of the sheet hadn't been selected, but I didn't notice that. Fixing this will be a nightmare, but nothing compared to the problem if some of my other sheets with nearly 2000 rows do the same. Searching the Net indicates that others may have had somewhat similar problems. Prevention must be to "Save As" the file every time it is closed, using the date for instance so that, while the day's work may be corrupted one could still go back to a recent version - of course, I had never done that and my most recent computer back-up was before the 1939 sheet was added. (I'm a bit baffled that Windows 10 contains a file back-up facility and my computer has a conventional hard-drive and a solid state drive but Windows refuses to use one to back-up the other). Has anybody else had this problem and could suggest whether it is peculiar to Windows 10, has my Excel become corrupted, or is there a mutual incompatability? Adrian _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Paul, Your query intrigued me! On "The Forces War Records" site, he is listed as Gordon Howes with the Service No:14301. This is taken from "Soldiers Died in the Great War 1914-1919" it contains no more information than what has already been mentioned by you. However, "The Genealogist" site , holds records of the Daily Casualty List. G. Howes Service No 14301 is listed as wounded on 21 October 1916. The War Office Casualty List announces his death in the the edition of 19 February 1918. There is also a link to the CWGC site and the burial of Gordon Howes in Norwich. I have looked in vain for the birth of a Gordon Howes c.1888 (also census returns) as I expect you & many others have. Plenty of George's. I am sorry to have perhaps only added to the confusion. Nevertheless! Good hunting & do let us know if you finally resolve this conundrum. Kind Wishes. Evelyn (Roope/Rope ONS) On 25 March 2016 at 02:31, Paul Howes via <[email protected]> wrote: > Post script to enquiry earlier this week. The will I ordered arrived > just after I left Florida two days ago and I've only had time to look > at it tonight. Intriguing. > > If he died OSB and if it means "without issue", then someone didn't > tell the paymaster about his will. It's very clear and reads: > "In the event of my Death I leave the whole of my property and effects > to Dorothy May Flowers, Lenwade, nr Norwich, Norfolk." > He signed the will but honestly, I cannot read the initial/first name, > or rank? It has either been corrected or someone has written on it. > The surname looks like it might be Hawes but it's Howes elsewhere in > the document. And it appears to be followed by the letter, G both at > the top and bottom of the document. > > So, even after getting the will, I still cannot figure out who George > was! If anyone is interested in this problem, I will post the > original of the will in the WebForum with a restatement of the issues. > > I said "intriguing" particularly, because there was a Dorothy May > Flowers in Lenwade (also known as Great Witchingham) in the 1911 > census. She's living with a grandmother, age 2, born in Fakenham. > Her birth registration appears to have been under the surname of > Crick, in Q2 1908, which would fit a birth of 1.61908 and not 1.6.1918 > as stated in the Register of Soldiers' effects. There's no > Flowers/Crick marriage and no death of a female Flowers or Crick of > child-bearing age in Norfolk in the period from 1908 to 1917. If I > look at the grandmother, I can see her (albeit with a wide tolerance > on her year of birth) through several censuses and eight of her nine > children. Looks like one of the girls was Dorothy's mother. I can > also now see that Dorothy lived to a ripe old age, dying in 1987 but > did not marry and her date of birth was . . . .(drum roll, for what > it's worth) . . . 1 Jun 1908! > > I feel like I've just gone back a generation and doubled the number of > uncertainties without going back a generation! Maybe I'll save some > pennies and buy the Death Cert for George unless anyone has a better > idea. > Thanks again for all the ideas so far > Paul > > www.howesfamilies.com > Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Good evening, For the past couple of decades I have been frustrated in not being able to trace one of my maternal lines back. My great-grandmother was a Jane FENN (1880-1970) - one of twenty children to John Fenn (1854-1940) and Jane Hewitt (1858-1920) - married 4Jul1875. I have John for sure in the English census images from 1871 to 1911, it being the 1911 census that states that John and Jane had twenty children of which seven had died. I have the baptisms, BMD and census for most of the children - they are not the problem. It is John's parents that are killing me. The 1871 census gives his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth FENN. In 1861, I think I have John living with his Aunt and Uncle - Christmas and Mary Anne Loveday. 1861: RG09/1242 f108 p04 1871: RG10/0654 f706 p38 1881: RG11/0654 f050 p07 1891: RG12/0427 f011 p15 1901: RG13/0445 f070 p43 1911: RG14/2251 RD26 ED01 SN40 John's birth is recorded variously as Leeds (1861), Sheffield (1881, 1891, 1901, 1911) or just Yorkshire (1871) - so the odds are in favour of Sheffield. In his marriage records, John's father is Thomas FENN (labourer). The 1871 census shows his parents as Thomas and Elizabeth (Ancestry shows the surname as Fein - and I can see why - as there is a . above what looks like the i). My main problem is that, other than 1871, I can't find Thomas (b 1831, Yorkshire) and Elizabeth (b 1829, Huntingdonshire). Someone (Ancestry family tree) has found a possible marriage with Elizabeth Andrews (York 23 667, Jun 1846). The mists are because of another Thomas FENN married to an Elizabeth - this one being born in Staffordshire. Any advice and guidance would be VERY welcomed. It is one of the few personal lines I've not been able to drive back into the 18th Century. [By the way - I see John was in the railways - as were most of his brothers.] Regards Chris

I had problems as well, somehow my computer had defaulted to an American date set-up and not UK English, once I put that right things got better. Jennifer -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Adrian Abbott via Sent: 25 March 2016 13:38 To: GOONS Subject: [G] Disastrous Excel Behaviour I have used Excel 2007 happily for many years, and often Sort spreadsheets. The method is to click on a cell, then Sort, at which point all the columns containing data change colour and one can select what criteria you want. Since having transferred to Windows 10, the only sheet that I have added to my ONS database is my data from the 1939 Register. I have 15 columns of data and about 190 rows. Eventually I decided to Search (I think the first time was to separate the sexes) and noticed that only the first 11 rows changed colour, and eventually found that I had to manually select all the Rows before the search, which had never done before. The earlier Sheets in the same Workbook were not affected and continued to behave as before, but coming back to the files today I find that the 1939 register sheet is now behaving normally, but in the process columns 1 to 11 give rows that are correct, but columns 12 to 15 give rows that are in random order - so for instance a family that appear in correct order in the first columns are all at different addresses. In other words I have now got two part-databases that don't match each other and despite trying to replicate various Searches on the two halves I can't get them to go back to the original. It may be that I did a Search without noticing that all of the sheet hadn't been selected, but I didn't notice that. Fixing this will be a nightmare, but nothing compared to the problem if some of my other sheets with nearly 2000 rows do the same. Searching the Net indicates that others may have had somewhat similar problems. Prevention must be to "Save As" the file every time it is closed, using the date for instance so that, while the day's work may be corrupted one could still go back to a recent version - of course, I had never done that and my most recent computer back-up was before the 1939 sheet was added. (I'm a bit baffled that Windows 10 contains a file back-up facility and my computer has a conventional hard-drive and a solid state drive but Windows refuses to use one to back-up the other). Has anybody else had this problem and could suggest whether it is peculiar to Windows 10, has my Excel become corrupted, or is there a mutual incompatability? Adrian _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Very kind of you, Evelyn, as were earlier thoughts from John Hanson and Brian Swann. Thank you Paul On Fri, Mar 25, 2016 at 3:56 PM, Evelyn O'Connor <[email protected]> wrote: > Paul, > Your query intrigued me! > > On "The Forces War Records" site, he is listed as Gordon Howes with > the Service No:14301. This is taken from "Soldiers Died in the Great > War 1914-1919" it contains no more information than what has already > been mentioned by you. > > However, "The Genealogist" site , holds records of the Daily Casualty List. > G. Howes Service No 14301 is listed as wounded on 21 October 1916. > The War Office Casualty List announces his death in the the edition of > 19 February 1918. > There is also a link to the CWGC site and the burial of Gordon Howes in Norwich. > > I have looked in vain for the birth of a Gordon Howes c.1888 (also > census returns) as I expect you & many others have. Plenty of > George's. > > I am sorry to have perhaps only added to the confusion. Nevertheless! > > Good hunting & do let us know if you finally resolve this conundrum. > > Kind Wishes. > > Evelyn (Roope/Rope ONS) > > On 25 March 2016 at 02:31, Paul Howes via <[email protected]> wrote: >> Post script to enquiry earlier this week. The will I ordered arrived >> just after I left Florida two days ago and I've only had time to look >> at it tonight. Intriguing. >> >> If he died OSB and if it means "without issue", then someone didn't >> tell the paymaster about his will. It's very clear and reads: >> "In the event of my Death I leave the whole of my property and effects >> to Dorothy May Flowers, Lenwade, nr Norwich, Norfolk." >> He signed the will but honestly, I cannot read the initial/first name, >> or rank? It has either been corrected or someone has written on it. >> The surname looks like it might be Hawes but it's Howes elsewhere in >> the document. And it appears to be followed by the letter, G both at >> the top and bottom of the document. >> >> So, even after getting the will, I still cannot figure out who George >> was! If anyone is interested in this problem, I will post the >> original of the will in the WebForum with a restatement of the issues. >> >> I said "intriguing" particularly, because there was a Dorothy May >> Flowers in Lenwade (also known as Great Witchingham) in the 1911 >> census. She's living with a grandmother, age 2, born in Fakenham. >> Her birth registration appears to have been under the surname of >> Crick, in Q2 1908, which would fit a birth of 1.61908 and not 1.6.1918 >> as stated in the Register of Soldiers' effects. There's no >> Flowers/Crick marriage and no death of a female Flowers or Crick of >> child-bearing age in Norfolk in the period from 1908 to 1917. If I >> look at the grandmother, I can see her (albeit with a wide tolerance >> on her year of birth) through several censuses and eight of her nine >> children. Looks like one of the girls was Dorothy's mother. I can >> also now see that Dorothy lived to a ripe old age, dying in 1987 but >> did not marry and her date of birth was . . . .(drum roll, for what >> it's worth) . . . 1 Jun 1908! >> >> I feel like I've just gone back a generation and doubled the number of >> uncertainties without going back a generation! Maybe I'll save some >> pennies and buy the Death Cert for George unless anyone has a better >> idea. >> Thanks again for all the ideas so far >> Paul >> >> www.howesfamilies.com >> Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Paul Howes Chairman, Guild of One-Name Studies www.one-name.org www.howesfamilies.com Researching House, Howes, Hows, Howse & Howze worldwide

Adrian I had problems with Excel when I upgraded to Windows 7. I am now on Windows 8.1. I found the problems went away when I saved the files to the latest version of Excel, ie changing the file extension from .xls to .xlsx. When you transfer the files they retain the old format and some of the features become unstable. You need to Save As and select Save as Type: Excel Workbook (*.xlsx). Hope that helps. Regards David Burgess On 25/3/16 13:37, Adrian Abbott via wrote: > I have used Excel 2007 happily for many years, and often Sort > spreadsheets. The method is to click on a cell, then Sort, at which > point all the columns containing data change colour and one can select > what criteria you want. > > Since having transferred to Windows 10, the only sheet that I have > added to my ONS database is my data from the 1939 Register. I have 15 > columns of data and about 190 rows. Eventually I decided to Search (I > think the first time was to separate the sexes) and noticed that only > the first 11 rows changed colour, and eventually found that I had to > manually select all the Rows before the search, which had never done > before. > > The earlier Sheets in the same Workbook were not affected and > continued to behave as before, but coming back to the files today I > find that the 1939 register sheet is now behaving normally, but in the > process columns 1 to 11 give rows that are correct, but columns 12 to > 15 give rows that are in random order - so for instance a family that > appear in correct order in the first columns are all at different > addresses. In other words I have now got two part-databases that don't > match each other and despite trying to replicate various Searches on > the two halves I can't get them to go back to the original. It may be > that I did a Search without noticing that all of the sheet hadn't been > selected, but I didn't notice that. > > Fixing this will be a nightmare, but nothing compared to the problem > if some of my other sheets with nearly 2000 rows do the same. > Searching the Net indicates that others may have had somewhat similar > problems. > > Prevention must be to "Save As" the file every time it is closed, > using the date for instance so that, while the day's work may be > corrupted one could still go back to a recent version - of course, I > had never done that and my most recent computer back-up was before the > 1939 sheet was added. (I'm a bit baffled that Windows 10 contains a > file back-up facility and my computer has a conventional hard-drive > and a solid state drive but Windows refuses to use one to back-up the > other). > > Has anybody else had this problem and could suggest whether it is > peculiar to Windows 10, has my Excel become corrupted, or is there a > mutual incompatability? > > Adrian > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- David Burgess

I have used Excel 2007 happily for many years, and often Sort spreadsheets. The method is to click on a cell, then Sort, at which point all the columns containing data change colour and one can select what criteria you want. Since having transferred to Windows 10, the only sheet that I have added to my ONS database is my data from the 1939 Register. I have 15 columns of data and about 190 rows. Eventually I decided to Search (I think the first time was to separate the sexes) and noticed that only the first 11 rows changed colour, and eventually found that I had to manually select all the Rows before the search, which had never done before. The earlier Sheets in the same Workbook were not affected and continued to behave as before, but coming back to the files today I find that the 1939 register sheet is now behaving normally, but in the process columns 1 to 11 give rows that are correct, but columns 12 to 15 give rows that are in random order - so for instance a family that appear in correct order in the first columns are all at different addresses. In other words I have now got two part-databases that don't match each other and despite trying to replicate various Searches on the two halves I can't get them to go back to the original. It may be that I did a Search without noticing that all of the sheet hadn't been selected, but I didn't notice that. Fixing this will be a nightmare, but nothing compared to the problem if some of my other sheets with nearly 2000 rows do the same. Searching the Net indicates that others may have had somewhat similar problems. Prevention must be to "Save As" the file every time it is closed, using the date for instance so that, while the day's work may be corrupted one could still go back to a recent version - of course, I had never done that and my most recent computer back-up was before the 1939 sheet was added. (I'm a bit baffled that Windows 10 contains a file back-up facility and my computer has a conventional hard-drive and a solid state drive but Windows refuses to use one to back-up the other). Has anybody else had this problem and could suggest whether it is peculiar to Windows 10, has my Excel become corrupted, or is there a mutual incompatability? Adrian