Adrian I have quite a few, known as KCs. Kissing Cousins. One married twice in the same name; spinster then widow, fortunately out of study. Fowler ONS ________________________________ From: Adrian Abbott via <[email protected]> To: GOONS <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 28 April 2016, 16:41 Subject: [G] Marriage partner coincidences Having just got a birth certificate to determine which of two similarly surnamed women was the mother of one of my ONS people (THUBRON), I decided to check how many marriage partners in my ONS had matching surnames, and was somewhat surprised. This is a fairly rare name and I like to think I have collected all the THUBRON marriages from the GRO Register, which amounts to about 750 from 1837 to 2005. Out of these 750 marriages there were many multiple occurrences of the same surname. The most common are: Thompson - 10 Brown - 10 Bell - 8 Harrison - 8 Hutchinson - 8 Smith - 6 Mills - 5 Many of them are possibly siblings/cousins marrying into the same family, and the majority of the marriages were in the Northeast of England. But I never considered Bell and Mills to be very common names. Adrian _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have six siblings (four brothers, two sisters) and both the yDNA and mtDNA lines will go extinct (unless one of my daughters has a daughter). My father was the only grandson of my great grandfather Blake carrying this Blake yDNA and so it goes back another generation. My yDNA Pincombe (mother's line) went extinct when my uncle died without issue. I do have a lot of 3rd male cousins though who carry this signature. The Blake yDNA though is interesting as it has survived from at least the early 1400s and there was one incidence of three only children in the 1700s one after the other thus reducing the number of descendants of the earlier group quite drastically. They, other than a few exceptions, tended towards smaller families anyway. There are, however, a number of 5th cousins Blake of mine who still live in the Andover area (my Blake grandfather was born at Upper Clatford but just three generations back from him this Blake line was at Andover and before that Knights Enham). Elizabeth (Blake) Kipp BA PLCGS Website: http://www.kipp-blake-families.ca/elizabethmain.htm Blog: http://kippeeb.blogspot.ca/ Guild of One Name Studies #4600 (Blake, Pincombe) The Surname Society #1004 (Bedard, Dumoulin, Gregoire, Prevost, Blake, Pincombe, Knight, Rawlings, Cheatle, Butt, Buller, Taylor, Gray, Farmer, Lywood, Rew, Routledge, Welch, Coleman, Lambden, Arnold, Peck, Rowcliffe, Siderfin, Cobb, Beard) On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Derek Bandy via <[email protected]> wrote: Don't forget over extended periods of time many DNA lines simply die out, people with no children, no male children (y-dna). It doesn't have to be natural disasters or massacres. There was a study on it some time ago but I have lost the details.

I thought my direct line was fairly healthy until I thought about it, half brother (different father), who has two daughters and one son, so only has three daughter's, girls obviously different surnames, but one had four daughters anyway and the other only one son. Male cousin who has no children, uncle with only one girl! So, this family line is now dead! best wishes, from another girl of the only girl! Liz On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Derek Bandy via <[email protected]> wrote: > Don't forget over extended periods of time many DNA lines simply die out, > people with no children, no male children (y-dna). It doesn't have to be > natural disasters or massacres. There was a study on it some time ago but > I > have lost the details. > > with kind regards > Derek Bandy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of JANETHESKI via > Sent: 27 April 2016 12:00 > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? > > And the Black Death... > > And the plague of 1665... > > Janet [2281] > > > > In a message dated 27/04/2016 11:58:02 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Christopher Gray via > Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? > > A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's > "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's > European > men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. > Leaving > aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of > other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass > genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on > the > DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a > few million people. > > The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. > Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa > killing off all the others? > > Chris > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and > the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in > the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message >

You are not alone Liz. I was adopted by a wonderful man, who married my Mom in 1967. There are three of us girls and we are all adopted. He had one brother, who died last year with no children and a sister, who died at age 16. I would venture to say that line is "dead" as well. His Dad had a brother and two sisters. The brother had a son, who only has daughters, so the entire male line from my Grandfather (adopted) will not go on. As well, my Grandfather had only one brother and two sisters. His brother had a son, who only has daughters, so that line will also be "dead" from the male side. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Liz Phillips via Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:25 AM To: Derek Bandy <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? I thought my direct line was fairly healthy until I thought about it, half brother (different father), who has two daughters and one son, so only has three daughter's, girls obviously different surnames, but one had four daughters anyway and the other only one son. Male cousin who has no children, uncle with only one girl! So, this family line is now dead! best wishes, from another girl of the only girl! Liz On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Derek Bandy via <[email protected]> wrote: > Don't forget over extended periods of time many DNA lines simply die > out, people with no children, no male children (y-dna). It doesn't > have to be natural disasters or massacres. There was a study on it > some time ago but I have lost the details. > > with kind regards > Derek Bandy > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of JANETHESKI via > Sent: 27 April 2016 12:00 > To: [email protected] > Cc: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? > > And the Black Death... > > And the plague of 1665... > > Janet [2281] > > > > In a message dated 27/04/2016 11:58:02 GMT Daylight Time, > [email protected] writes: > Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via > Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? > > A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's > "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's > European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 > years ago. > Leaving > aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands > of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close > relations (mass > genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based > on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the > study was of a few million people. > > The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. > Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around > Africa killing off all the others? > > Chris > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is how lines get "daughtered out", and why apparently all living men can trace their DNA back to one single ancestor "Y-Adam". On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:57 AM, Barbara Bush via <[email protected]> wrote: > You are not alone Liz. I was adopted by a wonderful man, who married my Mom > in 1967. There are three of us girls and we are all adopted. > He had one brother, who died last year with no children and a sister, who > died at age 16. I would venture to say that line is "dead" as well. His > Dad had a brother and two sisters. The brother had a son, who only has > daughters, so the entire male line from my Grandfather (adopted) will not go > on. As well, my Grandfather had only one brother and two sisters. His > brother had a son, who only has daughters, so that line will also be "dead" > from the male side. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Liz Phillips via > Sent: Thursday, April 28, 2016 3:25 AM > To: Derek Bandy <[email protected]>; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? > > I thought my direct line was fairly healthy until I thought about it, half > brother (different father), who has two daughters and one son, so only has > three daughter's, girls obviously different surnames, but one had four > daughters anyway and the other only one son. Male cousin who has no > children, uncle with only one girl! So, this family line is now dead! > > best wishes, from another girl of the only girl! > Liz > > On Wed, Apr 27, 2016 at 12:17 PM, Derek Bandy via <[email protected]> > wrote: > >> Don't forget over extended periods of time many DNA lines simply die >> out, people with no children, no male children (y-dna). It doesn't >> have to be natural disasters or massacres. There was a study on it >> some time ago but I have lost the details. >> >> with kind regards >> Derek Bandy >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of JANETHESKI via >> Sent: 27 April 2016 12:00 >> To: [email protected] >> Cc: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? >> >> And the Black Death... >> >> And the plague of 1665... >> >> Janet [2281] >> >> >> >> In a message dated 27/04/2016 11:58:02 GMT Daylight Time, >> [email protected] writes: >> Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via >> Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? >> >> A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's >> "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's >> European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 >> years ago. >> Leaving >> aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands >> of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close >> relations (mass >> genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based >> on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the >> study was of a few million people. >> >> The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended > from. >> Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around >> Africa killing off all the others? >> >> Chris >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> --- >> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Having now read the original article I now see that I was wrong, and they really are claiming direct descent via the Y chromosome. So back to the drawing board for me! Brian Yare #5831 Yare

The story in the Daily Telegraph was somewhat creative with the truth. The official press release from the Sanger Institute makes much more sense: http://www.sanger.ac.uk/news/view/modern-dna-reveals-ancient-male-population -explosions-linked-migration-and-technology In case the above long link breaks here is a short URL: http://tinyurl.com/hzuvtam The scientific study on which the article is based can be found here: http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/vaop/ncurrent/full/ng.3559.html The paper itself is behind a paywall but most of the meat from the research is in this massive 119-page supplementary note which is freely available and includes the new Y-tree: http://www.nature.com/ng/journal/vaop/ncurrent/extref/ng.3559-S1.pdf This research essentially confirms what we already know - that the Y-chromosomes of all living men share a common ancestor about 200,000+ years ago who probably lived in Africa. We can divide the branches of the Y-tree into haplogroups. Some of these haplogroups are now found at very high frequency today. Haplogroup R1b, for example, is found in about 70% of British men. The frequency of the haplogroups today has no bearing on the frequency of the haplogroups in the past as these haplogroups only represent the lineages that have survived to the present-day. Haplogroup R1b is very rare in the ancient Y-DNA samples that have turned up so far. The booklet that looked at the extinction of surnames is "The Inheritance of English Surnames" by Christopher Sturges and Brian Haggett. This is now out of print but you can find some information on the subject here: http://www.surnamestudies.org.uk/statistics/macro.htm This subject is covered in Professor Mark Thomas's lecture given last year at Who Do You Think You Are? Live which you can watch online here and is highly recommended: https://youtu.be/8Sr31Ke66tU It is indeed true that all Europeans are descended from Charlemagne (though not on our Y-DNA and mtDNA lines) and that we all share a recent common ancestor in a surprisingly recent timeframe as a result of the effects of pedigree collapse. You can find lots of further reading on this subject here: http://www.isogg.org/wiki/Pedigree_collapse Best wishes Debbie Kennett http://cruwys.blogspot.com http://one-name.org/name_profile/cruwys http://www.familytreedna.com/public/CruwysDNA

Hi Chris Eve first. There were lots of women alive at the time, but only one whose female line descendants are still alive today (mother’s mother’s mother’s mother, etc). Many of the others probably have descendants, but at some point daughters only had sons, so that female line died out. The man from whom half of today’s European men are descended is probably, as someone else has pointed out, from the R1b halpogroup. This is by far the most common haplogroup in Western Europe. So, in reality, the sample is much much larger than 1,200. The point is that male line descents die out all the time. You must have found this in your research. 4,000 years is time for thousands of generations, so plenty of opportunities for a man to have no sons but to have some daughters, whose descendants may still be around. This is probably a very inadequate summary of the argument, but frankly it would take more time than I have to spare to explain it in more detail. Whole books have been written on the subject. See the Guild wiki for some suggestions. June Willing Guild of One-Name Studies member no 2117 Willing/Willings One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/Willing/ Willing/Willings DNA Project https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/willing Dominicus One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/dominicus/ > On 27 Apr 2016, at 08:19, Christopher Gray via <[email protected]> wrote: > > A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's > "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European > men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving > aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of > other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass > genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the > DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a > few million people. > > The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. > Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa > killing off all the others? > > Chris > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is a good job that surnames were not around 4,000 years ago as, if they were, then - according to this research - half the population of Europe would have the same surname. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Mark Bunch via Sent: 27 April 2016 12:32 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? Oops, sorry for the duplicate reply, Chris -- I meant to post this to the list the first time... __________________ Hi Chris, Good questions!  I haven't read the Telegraph article, so I'm only shooting from the hip here.  I assume that the claim is made in light of the fact/inference that y-chromosome SNP mutations must occur first in a single individual, to be passed on to that individual's descendants.  I would suppose the claim is made in regard to what was formerly called the R1b haplogroup.  As to the point of making the claim on the basis of only 1,200 samples -- well, that's statistics for you.  Far more that 1,200 people have (since?) had their y-chromosome DNA tested, and although strange "new" (aka, "previously undiscovered") haplogroups are occasionally found, and although subgroups of "old" established groups are CONSTANTLY being discovered as commercially available tests become more comprehensive, the main result still stands -- again, that's statistics for you. On the question of what happened to the descendants of all the other men alive at the time, I believe the answer lies in the notion of the "random walk" (also known as the drunkard's walk); Wikipedia has a pretty good article on this.  To put it briefly, all lineages tend to die out over time except the ones that don't (this is only a half-facetious summarization).  This has interesting implications not only in terms of carriers of DNA mutations, but also in terms of surname bearers (and, consequently, our individual one-name studies).  The Plant brothers (of GOONS fame) have written a number of interesting JOONS articles with the idea of the random walk as an implicit subtext. -Mark Bunch (GOONS #6223) ---------------------------------------- > To: [email protected] > Date: Wed, 27 Apr 2016 08:19:12 +0100 > Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? > From: [email protected] > > A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's > "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's > European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 > years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from > the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this > man's close relations (mass > genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based > on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the > study was of a few million people. > > The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. > Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around > Africa killing off all the others? > > Chris > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Don't forget over extended periods of time many DNA lines simply die out, people with no children, no male children (y-dna). It doesn't have to be natural disasters or massacres. There was a study on it some time ago but I have lost the details. with kind regards Derek Bandy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JANETHESKI via Sent: 27 April 2016 12:00 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? And the Black Death... And the plague of 1665... Janet [2281] In a message dated 27/04/2016 11:58:02 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a few million people. The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa killing off all the others? Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a few million people. The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa killing off all the others? Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

I seem to remember reading somewhere (?) that we are all descended from Charlemagne and Genghis Khan! Or is that more hyperbole? Rose Norton Bierton 6008 -----Original Message----- From: Christopher Gray via Sent: Wednesday, April 27, 2016 8:19 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a few million people. The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa killing off all the others? Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks for the links, Debbie. Gene Prescott Greenville, NC Guild of One-Name Studies: http://one-name.org/name_profile/prescott/ C. Eugene Prescott, CPA web/blogsite: http://taxtechcpa.blogspot.com/

I do not think that we are talking here about the direct male line all the way. I am probably descended from some 2^120 males over 4000 years, before subtracting duplicates. That ismuch more than the entire population of the world since the start of the human race! Brian Yare Yare #5831

A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a few million people. The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa killing off all the others? Chris

I agree, I'm also submitting all the errors I find but how to report the numerous instances where the household contains the wrong people because someone from the household below or above has been included? As an example, I have just added a correction where person 1 of the household is omitted but person 1 of the next household is included. At present I am dealing with this by correcting the surnames included in the household then adding a comment about who should be in or out but I have no idea if FMP will read this and correct as a result. Grateful for any suggestions. Sian -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Robin Border via Sent: 26 April 2016 14:31 To: Peter Armstrong; [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] 1939 Register occupations Submitting dozens - its the only way we will get it right Robin Border

I have just completed 1939 census look-ups of some 1500 individuals (about 700 families) for my ONS. My guess is that the error rate on the transcripts was around 25 % to 50% and it proved absolutely essential to look at the images in every case to obtain more accuracy. What I found annoying was that many of the transcription errors were inexcusable as the image was clear and unambiguous. Even looking at the image does not work every time because the redaction of individuals has in some cases been badly done causing adjacent un-redacted lines to be obscured or partially obscured. Some transcribed surnames were incorrect so unfortunately the search function does not find all the names you are looking for and gives some you dont want. I have no idea how you can overcome that problem and I expect that I have missed several relevant entries. Overall the exercise was useful and I was able to add useful information to my ONS database. Coldwell 2172 On 26 April 2016 at 19:32, John Hanson via <[email protected]> wrote: > Penny > The transcription of the 1939 Register was handled in the UK and was carried > out a single column at a time. The columns were then "stitched" together to > make the page up, goes some way to explain some of the errors that we see. > > If you haven't done already have a look at 1939register.info - put together > by Peter Calver of Lost Cousins fame. If his newsletter is the one I always > recommend these days. > > But just because the transcription looks wrong don't make assumptions, check > the originals and then please make the corrections. I always do in the hope > that someone will have corrected the ones that I am looking for. > > Also remember that it is easier to read something when you know what you are > looking at rather than something strange. > > Regards > John Hanson > Researcher, The Halsted Trust > Website - www.halstedresearch.org.uk > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On > Behalf Of Penny Jones via > Sent: 26 April 2016 17:00 > To: John P Laws; [email protected] > Subject: Re: [G] 1939 Register occupations > > Couldn't agree more. Think FMP have excelled themselves in their lack of > vigilance. Makes me wonder just who they employed to transcribe and how much > they were paid. > > Sent from my iPad > >> On 26 Apr 2016, at 15:06, John P Laws via <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> Hi One-Namers Everywhere >> >> It is my view that Ancestry & FMP or whosoever undertook the >> transcription of our national records, paid their transcribers by >> quantity not by quality and that any vigilation was kept to a minimum. >> >> >> John P Laws >> >> Registrar >> Laws Family Register >> Putting Flesh on the Bones of History >> >> www.lawsandlawes.blogspot.co.uk >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Robin Border via >> Sent: 26 April, 2016 2:31 PM >> To: Peter Armstrong; [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [G] 1939 Register occupations >> >> Submitting dozens - its the only way we will get it right Robin Border >>> On 26 Apr 2016, at 13:56, Peter Armstrong via <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> I had one similarly transcribed as "???" which I could clearly read >>> as "Wholesale Merchant Dealing in Druggists Sundries Medicines >>> Smallware etc" - possibly the longest occupation description I have >>> seen and written in tiny handwriting! A correction was submitted and >>> accepted by FMP. I trust other folks are submitting their corrections >>> to the 1939 >> Register. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Peter Armstrong >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- >>> From: "Adrian Abbott via" <[email protected]> >>> To: "Celia Dodd" <[email protected]>; "GOONS" >>> <[email protected]> >>> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2016 1:32 PM >>> Subject: Re: [G] 1939 Register occupations >>> >>> >>>> Maybe we should have some sympathy for the transcribers, but one of >>>> mine where the original said quite clearly "Sulphate of Ammonia >>>> Worker in Bye-Product Works" was transcribed as "???" >>>> >>>> Adrian >>> >>> _____________________________________________ >>> >>> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >>> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message > > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Prof John K Coldwell Aiming to build a worldwide history of Coldwell people. Please join in! Facebook: Coldwell Genealogy Group Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org/profiles/coldwell.html Coldwell & Couldwell surname information: www.coldwell.info

The reason I started Family History was because I had no HESKINS male cousins... Janet [2281] In a message dated 27/04/2016 12:20:43 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Don't forget over extended periods of time many DNA lines simply die out, people with no children, no male children (y-dna). It doesn't have to be natural disasters or massacres. There was a study on it some time ago but I have lost the details. with kind regards Derek Bandy -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of JANETHESKI via Sent: 27 April 2016 12:00 To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [G] DNA conclusions? And the Black Death... And the plague of 1665... Janet [2281] In a message dated 27/04/2016 11:58:02 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a few million people. The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa killing off all the others? Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

And the Black Death... And the plague of 1665... Janet [2281] In a message dated 27/04/2016 11:58:02 GMT Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: Well, the last ice age would have killed many but even so ... -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher Gray via Sent: 2016 April 27 08:19 To: [email protected] Subject: [G] DNA conclusions? A recent claim in the UK's Daily Telegraph - as pointed to by today's "Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter" - was that half of today's European men are descended from a single man who lived some 4,000 years ago. Leaving aside what happened to all the boys descended from the many thousands of other men alive at that time - let alone this man's close relations (mass genocide?) - how can people make such sweeping generalisations based on the DNA of just 1,200 people? I could better understand if the study was of a few million people. The same goes for this "Eve" person we are all meant to be descended from. Was she the only female alive at the time? Did she wonder around Africa killing off all the others? Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --- This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I have a question concerning Haplogroups the questions is; Based on tests done to-date the results show two different Haplogoups as such, would I be correct in interpreting these results as showing two different ancestral lines and more than likely two different origins even though the known origin in both cases is Northern Ireland based on research done to date? The Haplogroups are; I2a2 R1b1a1a2 Regards, David J Grimshaw (or is it Grimason?) Genealogical Researcher of the "Grimason" surname and variations of the "Grimason" surname World Wide. A One Name study registered with the Guild of One Name Studies (GOONS): 6138 formerly 2962 The "Sherlock Holmes" of this family according to some.