Hi Merryl This looks like an error which was made when the original index was converted from the handwritten version to the typewritten version. Looking at the page, the clues are in the entries which are out of alphabetical order. These are the ones which have been wrongly copied. So BOWLER is obviously out of sequence, and should probably be BAWLER, I would think. This is a simple typo. Then there are several Baurn entries, Clara, Ellen Emily, Henry, Lilian Louisa, Henry Christopher. Henry Christopher is out of sequence, so it looks like the typist accidentally omitted another surname. Bawtree comes between Baurn and Bax, so fits exactly. I found a similar example a few years ago in the births for WILLINGS in 1864 September quarter, where there were seven entries. This is very high for Willings, so I was suspicious, then I noticed there were two sequences of forenames. I wrote to Southport querying this and they replied to confirm that the second sequence of names should have been WILLINGTON. They corrected their indexes but naturally all the online indexes are incorrect. So, I think that only one of the Baurn entries should be Bawtree. You could query it directly with the GRO but whether it would help anyone else would be doubtful, or you could try Corinne’s suggestion. I agree with the suggestion of reading Michael Foster’s book. It explains a lot. June Willing Guild of One-Name Studies member no 2117 Willing/Willings One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/Willing/ Willing/Willings DNA Project https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/willing Dominicus One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/dominicus/ > On 19 May 2016, at 06:58, Merryl Wells via <[email protected]> wrote: > > I've recently sent three emails to the List that have not seemed to arrive > so am resending this one with fingers crossed > From > Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. > E-Mail: [email protected] > GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Merryl Wells" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:37 PM > Subject: Error in GRO Index? > > >> I came across Henry Christopher Bawtree's birth on 3 Nov 1863 Camberwell >> not having an entry on FreeBMD which I thought was odd, so went hunting. >> Searching for any Henry C. B* born 1861 to 1865 I found Henry Christopher >> Baurn Dec. 1863 Camberwell R.D. which must be him, but surname unclear, so >> checked the original scan. >> >> Initially I thought there were no Baurn entries but on looking around, >> before BAX I found five Baurn entries with the previous entry being one >> Bowler, and before that Bawden which was in the right sequence. There are >> also no Bawtree entries in that quarter on that page. >> >> I thought of leaving a PostEm note but no one searching for Bawtree would >> think to look at it. Also it is therefore possible that the other entries >> are not just in the wrong place but have the wrong surname? I looked in >> my Bawtree birth indexes for the previous entry of Lilian Louisa Baurn but >> couldn't find any Lilian Louisa Bawtree births at all. >> >> Can't think of anything I can do to get it corrected or to warn other >> researchers as guess I would have to buy the Baurn certificate to prove >> it's really Bawtree. >> >> From >> Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. >> E-Mail: [email protected] >> GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Meryl, Could you try applying for the certificate in the name BAWTREE but using the page refs for the BAUM entry and quoting father's name as a requirement for the certificate (that way you don't pay if it isn't the one)? I'm not at all surprised the index appears wrong. I keep remembering back to Michael Foster's research on the marriage indexes and his assessment of the rather big proportion of wrongly (or not) indexed marriages (A Comedy of Errors or The Marriage Records of England and Wales 1837-1899 by Michael Whitfield Foster). If anyone hasn't read this, it is well worth a look - if only as a reminder to not totally trust GRO indexes. Corinne Curtis #5579 On Thu, May 19, 2016 at 6:58 AM, Merryl Wells via <[email protected]> wrote: >> I thought of leaving a PostEm note but no one searching for Bawtree would >> think to look at it. Also it is therefore possible that the other entries >> are not just in the wrong place but have the wrong surname? I looked in >> my Bawtree birth indexes for the previous entry of Lilian Louisa Baurn but >> couldn't find any Lilian Louisa Bawtree births at all. >> >> Can't think of anything I can do to get it corrected or to warn other >> researchers as guess I would have to buy the Baurn certificate to prove >> it's really Bawtree.

I've recently sent three emails to the List that have not seemed to arrive so am resending this one with fingers crossed From Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. E-Mail: [email protected] GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Merryl Wells" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 13, 2016 8:37 PM Subject: Error in GRO Index? >I came across Henry Christopher Bawtree's birth on 3 Nov 1863 Camberwell >not having an entry on FreeBMD which I thought was odd, so went hunting. >Searching for any Henry C. B* born 1861 to 1865 I found Henry Christopher >Baurn Dec. 1863 Camberwell R.D. which must be him, but surname unclear, so >checked the original scan. > > Initially I thought there were no Baurn entries but on looking around, > before BAX I found five Baurn entries with the previous entry being one > Bowler, and before that Bawden which was in the right sequence. There are > also no Bawtree entries in that quarter on that page. > > I thought of leaving a PostEm note but no one searching for Bawtree would > think to look at it. Also it is therefore possible that the other entries > are not just in the wrong place but have the wrong surname? I looked in > my Bawtree birth indexes for the previous entry of Lilian Louisa Baurn but > couldn't find any Lilian Louisa Bawtree births at all. > > Can't think of anything I can do to get it corrected or to warn other > researchers as guess I would have to buy the Baurn certificate to prove > it's really Bawtree. > > From > Merryl Wells of Luton, Beds. > E-Mail: [email protected] > GOONS Mem. No. 1757 Reg. ONS: Bawtree; Gullick/ock, Moist/Moyst.

The Public Profiler site gives data from the UK 1881 census and from 1998. When I add this to the data from Ancestry for 1901 (rounded) and taliesin-arlein for 2002 (rounded), we have: Country Records Estimate 1881 1901 1998 2002 USA 307,166 382,841 Canada 8,729 24,995 UK 1,758 7,884 42,729 64,000 60,227 68,000 Australia 895 11,055 New Zealand 413 4,812 While I am unclear as to why the Public Profiler "seems" to have "lost" 8,000 people, it supports the view that the LocateMyName has significantly under-estimated the number of people with the name GRAY. Regards Chris -----Original Message----- From: Peter Kelsall [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 19 May 2016 02:34 To: 'Christopher.Gray' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Subject: RE: [G] LocateMyName? I looked at KELSALL on the same site and came up with a number of 2713 for the UK which is consistent with estimates I have made from various sources, possibly a little on the low side. I calculated the ratios of Estimate to Records for each country and found exactly the same results for Kelsall and Gray (e.g. 4.48 for the UK). You also might want to compare with numbers from the Public Profiler site. Has anyone estimated current populations by extrapolation from the census through 1911 and the 1939 register. I would be interested in comparing notes and results. If I exactly match the total population growth I get 3381 for Kelsall. I know there are lots of hairy assumptions and approximations involved but it is a number to compare with other methods. Peter Kelsall -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher.Gray via Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 1:38 AM To: Goons <[email protected]> Subject: [G] LocateMyName? Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter has reported on the LocateMyName website that gives the count of a name in their records and then estimates what this means for the actual numbers. On looking at it, I am concerned with what it seems to be telling me. For example, it shows the following for their top five countries for the name GRAY - the columns being country, he count in their records and the estimate: Country Records Estimate USA 307,166 382,841 Canada 8,729 24,995 UK 1,758 7,884 Australia 895 11,055 New Zealand 413 4,812 It also indicates that GRAY is ranked as number 222 in the UK. While I have no problems with the numbers of people they have in their databases, the estimate as to how many there are would seem to be wildly inaccurate. Does anyone know anything about this site? Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I looked at KELSALL on the same site and came up with a number of 2713 for the UK which is consistent with estimates I have made from various sources, possibly a little on the low side. I calculated the ratios of Estimate to Records for each country and found exactly the same results for Kelsall and Gray (e.g. 4.48 for the UK). You also might want to compare with numbers from the Public Profiler site. Has anyone estimated current populations by extrapolation from the census through 1911 and the 1939 register. I would be interested in comparing notes and results. If I exactly match the total population growth I get 3381 for Kelsall. I know there are lots of hairy assumptions and approximations involved but it is a number to compare with other methods. Peter Kelsall -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Christopher.Gray via Sent: Wednesday, May 18, 2016 1:38 AM To: Goons <[email protected]> Subject: [G] LocateMyName? Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter has reported on the LocateMyName website that gives the count of a name in their records and then estimates what this means for the actual numbers. On looking at it, I am concerned with what it seems to be telling me. For example, it shows the following for their top five countries for the name GRAY - the columns being country, he count in their records and the estimate: Country Records Estimate USA 307,166 382,841 Canada 8,729 24,995 UK 1,758 7,884 Australia 895 11,055 New Zealand 413 4,812 It also indicates that GRAY is ranked as number 222 in the UK. While I have no problems with the numbers of people they have in their databases, the estimate as to how many there are would seem to be wildly inaccurate. Does anyone know anything about this site? Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is just a other example of why you should always check the image. Happy hunting Carole Searching for Steers On Wed, May 18, 2016 at 5:20 AM -0700, "Brian Horridge via" <[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>> wrote: Hi all I've just come across an(other) error in Ancestry's GRO transcription indexes. They have used Hemsworth RD instead of Heywood Rd for about 20 of my Horridge marriages (between 1956 and 1980). I've checked them all against FBMD images and they are all clearly Heywood. I can only suspect that someone picked the wrong RD from a list. The birth and death index do not seem to have suffered the same fate (at least with Hemsworth / Heywood RDs). If you've got any Hemsworth marriages it might be worth double-checking. Brian _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi all I've just come across an(other) error in Ancestry's GRO transcription indexes. They have used Hemsworth RD instead of Heywood Rd for about 20 of my Horridge marriages (between 1956 and 1980). I've checked them all against FBMD images and they are all clearly Heywood. I can only suspect that someone picked the wrong RD from a list. The birth and death index do not seem to have suffered the same fate (at least with Hemsworth / Heywood RDs). If you've got any Hemsworth marriages it might be worth double-checking. Brian

Could it be that their search is one of all words in the records as text, including newspapers etc. including the adjective, which is spelt "GRAY" in American English? Just a thought ... sounds a rubbishy site. Steve Tanner ----Original message---- >From : [email protected] Date : 18/05/2016 - 08:38 (GMTDT) To : [email protected] Subject : [G] LocateMyName? Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter has reported on the LocateMyName website that gives the count of a name in their records and then estimates what this means for the actual numbers. On looking at it, I am concerned with what it seems to be telling me. For example, it shows the following for their top five countries for the name GRAY - the columns being country, he count in their records and the estimate: Country Records Estimate USA 307,166 382,841 Canada 8,729 24,995 UK 1,758 7,884 Australia 895 11,055 New Zealand 413 4,812 It also indicates that GRAY is ranked as number 222 in the UK. While I have no problems with the numbers of people they have in their databases, the estimate as to how many there are would seem to be wildly inaccurate. Does anyone know anything about this site? Regards Chris _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Chris. I thought the same! More surname astrology? John On 18 May 2016 at 08:38, Christopher.Gray via <[email protected]> wrote: > Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter has reported on the LocateMyName > website that gives the count of a name in their records and then estimates > what this means for the actual numbers. On looking at it, I am concerned > with what it seems to be telling me. For example, it shows the following > for their top five countries for the name GRAY - the columns being country, > he count in their records and the estimate: > > Country Records Estimate > USA 307,166 382,841 > Canada 8,729 24,995 > UK 1,758 7,884 > Australia 895 11,055 > New Zealand 413 4,812 > > It also indicates that GRAY is ranked as number 222 in the UK. > > While I have no problems with the numbers of people they have in their > databases, the estimate as to how many there are would seem to be wildly > inaccurate. Does anyone know anything about this site? > > Regards > > Chris > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- Prof John K Coldwell Aiming to build a worldwide history of Coldwell people. Please join in! Facebook: Coldwell Genealogy Group Guild of One-Name Studies: www.one-name.org/profiles/coldwell.html Coldwell & Couldwell surname information: www.coldwell.info

Eastman's Online Genealogy Newsletter has reported on the LocateMyName website that gives the count of a name in their records and then estimates what this means for the actual numbers. On looking at it, I am concerned with what it seems to be telling me. For example, it shows the following for their top five countries for the name GRAY - the columns being country, he count in their records and the estimate: Country Records Estimate USA 307,166 382,841 Canada 8,729 24,995 UK 1,758 7,884 Australia 895 11,055 New Zealand 413 4,812 It also indicates that GRAY is ranked as number 222 in the UK. While I have no problems with the numbers of people they have in their databases, the estimate as to how many there are would seem to be wildly inaccurate. Does anyone know anything about this site? Regards Chris

the house of correction is still there in clerkenwell, I think it is now some small business workshopps. I can take photo next time I go past it - may be a while, it is not on my regular route On 17 May 2016 at 09:21, Nicholas Spence via <[email protected]> wrote: > Ann > > I can't answer your question definitively but would like to make a > couple of comments. > > He also signed the baptismal register on other occasions as well, both > earlier and later. There was a House of Correction not far away, on > Mount Pleasant, and perhaps that is where Rev J W Horsley was Chaplain. > There seem to have been quite a few different clergy baptising people at > St James at the start of 1878 and perhaps he was just helping out on > occasions, because the vicar was away for some reason. Although in > general the addresses of the people being baptised by him don't look as > if they were in prison at the time, there was one baptism he performed > on 27 Feb where the address of the person was given as House of > Correction - and this entry was also out of date sequence in the > Register - which could mean that the baptism was actually performed in > the prison itself and entered in the Register at a later date. > > Nick member 4108 > Chesson and variants > > On 16/05/2016 16:46, ann wadge via wrote: >> On 27th January 1878 2 of the baptisms at St James' Clerkenwell were carried out by "J W Horsley Chaplain House of Correction". >> Can anyone explain the possible reason for this please ? >> Ann >> > > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

The Revd Horsley was probably not licensed to St James' and was a probably "visiting minister". Check Crockfords to see his actual status. Alan Toplis 4185

Quoting from http://www.londonforfree.net/places/historic-prisons/ which tends to be reliable "Cold Bath Fields Prison This large prison in Clerkenwell was also known as Clerkenwell Jail. It was built in 1794 on the site of what is now the Royal Mail sorting office at Mount Pleasant. Some of the prison wall pillars still remain. It was renowned for the harshness of its punishments, including enforced silences and solitary confinement. By the mid nineteenth century, its name had changed to Middlesex House of Correction. It was closed in 1877 and demolished in 1889." So if it closed in 1877 could it be that the chaplain still retained his title? There is also an article about J W Horsley on http://www.pikle.co.uk/diaryjunction/data/horsley.html with a biography link. Cheers Howard LAVER -----Original Message----- From: ann wadge via Sent: Monday, May 16, 2016 4:46 PM To: goons Subject: [G] Baptism 1878 On 27th January 1878 2 of the baptisms at St James' Clerkenwell were carried out by "J W Horsley Chaplain House of Correction". Can anyone explain the possible reason for this please ? Ann _____________________________________________ RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ann I can't answer your question definitively but would like to make a couple of comments. He also signed the baptismal register on other occasions as well, both earlier and later. There was a House of Correction not far away, on Mount Pleasant, and perhaps that is where Rev J W Horsley was Chaplain. There seem to have been quite a few different clergy baptising people at St James at the start of 1878 and perhaps he was just helping out on occasions, because the vicar was away for some reason. Although in general the addresses of the people being baptised by him don't look as if they were in prison at the time, there was one baptism he performed on 27 Feb where the address of the person was given as House of Correction - and this entry was also out of date sequence in the Register - which could mean that the baptism was actually performed in the prison itself and entered in the Register at a later date. Nick member 4108 Chesson and variants On 16/05/2016 16:46, ann wadge via wrote: > On 27th January 1878 2 of the baptisms at St James' Clerkenwell were carried out by "J W Horsley Chaplain House of Correction". > Can anyone explain the possible reason for this please ? > Ann >

On 27th January 1878 2 of the baptisms at St James' Clerkenwell were carried out by "J W Horsley Chaplain House of Correction". Can anyone explain the possible reason for this please ? Ann

Hi Guys, Does anyone know if the PR’s of the St. Colomba Church in Kensington, London/Middlesex exist before 1880, in particular 1874? Ancestry have them after 1880 but not before. Regards Tony Anthony John MINGAY, now in NZ once of Kent & Suffolk, England but still researching Worldwide the surname MINGAY & its variants. http://www.mingayhistory.co.uk.

If you are talking about the Presbyterian church of St Columba, Pont Street, it was only built in the 1880s. Geoff 5389 Sent from my iPad > On 13 May 2016, at 22:27, mingay via <[email protected]> wrote: > > Hi Guys, > > Does anyone know if the PR’s of the St. Colomba Church in Kensington, London/Middlesex exist before 1880, in particular 1874? Ancestry have them after 1880 but not before. > > Regards Tony > Anthony John MINGAY, now in NZ once of Kent & Suffolk, England but still researching Worldwide the surname MINGAY

Ditto from me as well. The obituary was from the Richmond and Twickenham Times dated 2/5/14 and as the person had to pay £1.05 to send it to New Zealand I'm doubly grateful. Kind regards Ann McDonald Corner ONS On 11 May 2016 at 22:48, Kay Feltham via <[email protected]> wrote: > This morning in the post I received envelope containing an obituary > notice for Charles Roger Wildgoose. I have no idea who sent it so I do > not know who to thank! I am guessing that it was a GOON colleague so, > if it was you, please accept my gratitude. > > K > Still on a Wildgoose Chase! > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~willgooseweb > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Guys, I have managed to partly answer my own question, viz. “Does anyone know the validity of the England & Wales Christening Index as given by Ancestry”, in that it is actually the LDS VRI second edition, sad to say it was there on the screen all the time, derr. The particular reference I was concern with, appears to be extracted from the Suffolk BT and from the Orford region, so at the end of the day I will give it a ‘certain’' factor of 2 out of 3, uhhhm. Regards Tony Anthony John MINGAY, now in NZ once of Kent & Suffolk, England but still researching Worldwide the surname MINGAY & its variants. http://www.mingayhistory.co.uk.

Hi Michael David Bethel has moved. His address is now 14 Matlock Street, Stoke-on-Trent, ST1 3BG. June Willing Guild of One-Name Studies member no 2117 Willing/Willings One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/Willing/ Willing/Willings DNA Project https://www.familytreedna.com/groups/willing Dominicus One-Name Study http://one-name.org/name_profile/dominicus/ > On 12 May 2016, at 19:10, Michael James Edgoose via <[email protected]> wrote: > > The gentleman who runs FONS transcribes and translates Latin to order. He > is David Bethell, The Strines, Upper Hulme, Leek, Staffordshire ST13 8UL. > Send a scan to [email protected] for a quotation. > > > Michael James Edgoose > Mortagua > > On 12 May 2016 at 17:49, Christine Searle via <[email protected]> wrote: > >> Is anyone able to translate Latin for me? I have just found the text of >> the >> earliest reference to my study name - in Latin - dating from 1317, in the >> Miscellany of The Spalding Club. I can have a stab at some of it but is >> there anyone able to do more? I have a screen shot of it but suspect I >> cannot attach it here. >> >> Any help would be very much appreciated. >> >> Christine Searle >> GOONS No. 6512 >> http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Tilliduff_Name_Study >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: >> http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> > _____________________________________________ > > RootsWeb lists - surnames, regions, software, etc: > http://lists.rootsweb.ancestry.com/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message