Rose I am using Find my past site, and went looking for another possible Robert who could be Robert and Hannah's son. Given Hannah age the chances are that there were some children before William, who would have left home before the 41 census. Found a Robert PICK 30yrs with wife Phoebe and son John 1 year. Born in County. Found them in the 61 census and Robert born "Cromall, Gloucestershire" Is there a Cromall and a Cromhall or are they the same place? Unfortunately Son John born Cheltenham and looks like, from Free BDM, that this couple may have married in 1838. Is Elizabeth's age of 5yrs at 41 census confirmed by later census, and does she give an occupation for her father on the marriage certificate? In 41 the younger Robert was a baker and in 61 an Ag Lab. Wife's name and son's name I think these are the same Roberts despite change of occupation. And in 61 Phoebe is a little creative about her age just 24yrs with son 21yrs !!! ANd so was Robert 30yrs in 41 census and 40yrs in 61 census. Can find neither of then in 71 census but a Robert dies are 62yrs in 1874 at Stroud which does fit to his most likely age. I know some of this is stretching the facts but it may give you some leads. And this puts Elizabeth back as a grandchild. Have you found them in the 51 census? Marg ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rose Cowan" <rose.cowan@gmail.com> To: <GLOUCESTER@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:52 PM Subject: [GLS] PICK Elizabeth c1835 born Cromhall > Hi > > Sometime ago I requested help from this list concerning Elizabeth PICK. > Unfortunately since then I am really no further forward and wonder if SKS > may have any thoughts or help. > > What I do know is that from the 1861 census for Clapton in Gordano onwards > Elizabeth or Eliza was born in Cromhall. She married Frederick BAILEY in > 1864 and from the marriage certificate states her father was Robert PICK. > > I have not had any success locating a baptism for her although there are a > couple of possibles none give Robert as a father. There is one entry > giving > Ann PICK as mother, no father's name given. At first I thought this may > be > it but then wondered why she would give the name Robert on her marriage > cert. I have also information from the 1841 census which seems likely to > be > Elizabeth: > > Robert 55 > Hannah 60 > William 25 > Emma 20 > Mary 15 > Elizabeth 5 > > However, the Hannah would have been 55 at time of her birth so the though > is > that Robert & Hannah are grandparents. She may not have know this and > gave > her grandfather as her father. I have found Robert and Hannah on the 1871 > census so they were still alive at the time of her marriage to Frederick. > > I have found baptisms for William, Emma and Mary in Cromhall to Robert & > Hannah. I have checked through Ancestry 1841 to see if there is another > likely Robert but nothing. > > Do you think I am at the end of this line with the possible scenario that > the daughter Emma may be the mother and Elizabeth didn't know? There is > not > a baptism for another daughter between William 25 and Emma 20 unless the > Ann > PICK given on the baptism is a daughter. > > Would be grateful of any comments on this from the list. > > Regards to anyone who has tried to help me in the past with this > > Rose Cowan > Sydney, Australia (when I last posted I was living in Swindon, UK) > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Margaret asked: "Is there a Cromall and a Cromhall or are they the same place?" Short answer is as far as the people of Cromhall are concerned there is no "H" in the alphabet unless it is a sound at the front of words beginning with a vowel to give it emphasis! In fact if you come from there, the "o" often sounds like a "u" as well so you might also get "Crummal" type transcriptions. I read once that "The Glaswegian may have invented the glottal stop, but the Bristolian perfected it" ... and Cromhall is near enough to Bristol to have picked up some of the speech characteristics! Marilyn (who lived in Cromhall from the age of 8!) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Margaret J. Muntz" <muntz@hunterlink.net.au> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 7:03 AM Subject: Re: [GLS] PICK Elizabeth c1835 born Cromhall > Rose > I am using Find my past site, and went looking for another possible Robert > who could be Robert and Hannah's son. Given Hannah age the chances are > that > there were some children before William, who would have left home before > the > 41 census. > Found a Robert PICK 30yrs with wife Phoebe and son John 1 year. Born in > County. Found them in the 61 census and Robert born "Cromall, > Gloucestershire" Is there a Cromall and a Cromhall or are they the same > place? > > Unfortunately Son John born Cheltenham and looks like, from Free BDM, that > this couple may have married in 1838. > Is Elizabeth's age of 5yrs at 41 census confirmed by later census, and > does > she give an occupation for her father on the marriage certificate? > > In 41 the younger Robert was a baker and in 61 an Ag Lab. Wife's name and > son's name I think these are the same Roberts despite change of > occupation. > And in 61 Phoebe is a little creative about her age just 24yrs with son > 21yrs !!! ANd so was Robert 30yrs in 41 census and 40yrs in 61 census. > > Can find neither of then in 71 census but a Robert dies are 62yrs in 1874 > at > Stroud which does fit to his most likely age. > > I know some of this is stretching the facts but it may give you some > leads. > And this puts Elizabeth back as a grandchild. Have you found them in the > 51 > census? > Marg > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Rose Cowan" <rose.cowan@gmail.com> > To: <GLOUCESTER@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Monday, February 05, 2007 12:52 PM > Subject: [GLS] PICK Elizabeth c1835 born Cromhall > > >> Hi >> >> Sometime ago I requested help from this list concerning Elizabeth PICK. >> Unfortunately since then I am really no further forward and wonder if SKS >> may have any thoughts or help. >> >> What I do know is that from the 1861 census for Clapton in Gordano >> onwards >> Elizabeth or Eliza was born in Cromhall. She married Frederick BAILEY in >> 1864 and from the marriage certificate states her father was Robert PICK. >> >> I have not had any success locating a baptism for her although there are >> a >> couple of possibles none give Robert as a father. There is one entry >> giving >> Ann PICK as mother, no father's name given. At first I thought this may >> be >> it but then wondered why she would give the name Robert on her marriage >> cert. I have also information from the 1841 census which seems likely to >> be >> Elizabeth: >> >> Robert 55 >> Hannah 60 >> William 25 >> Emma 20 >> Mary 15 >> Elizabeth 5 >> >> However, the Hannah would have been 55 at time of her birth so the though >> is >> that Robert & Hannah are grandparents. She may not have know this and >> gave >> her grandfather as her father. I have found Robert and Hannah on the >> 1871 >> census so they were still alive at the time of her marriage to Frederick. >> >> I have found baptisms for William, Emma and Mary in Cromhall to Robert & >> Hannah. I have checked through Ancestry 1841 to see if there is another >> likely Robert but nothing. >> >> Do you think I am at the end of this line with the possible scenario that >> the daughter Emma may be the mother and Elizabeth didn't know? There is >> not >> a baptism for another daughter between William 25 and Emma 20 unless the >> Ann >> PICK given on the baptism is a daughter. >> >> Would be grateful of any comments on this from the list. >> >> Regards to anyone who has tried to help me in the past with this >> >> Rose Cowan >> Sydney, Australia (when I last posted I was living in Swindon, UK) >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Browse the list archives at: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ >> >> Keyword search - any or all lists: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >