Hi Wendy, I had a look at the 1851 census you mentioned for James and Keziah SAMUELL/SANVELL. From there I looked for the births of the children and found that they were all registered (except Alfred, couldn't find his) as SUMRELL. So it would appear that Alfred in the 1851 census is not yours??? I found that an Alfred SUMRELL married in Sep Qtr 1859 in the registration district of Neath, which is where all his siblings births were registered. There was no Matilda BARNES on the same page. However I did find a marriage in Cheltenham in Dec Qtr 1876 for a Matilda Ann BARNES, and there was no other person on the page, so can't prove that it was your Alfred/Martin SAMUELS. I have been unable to find Alfred in any other census. See the www.freebmd.org registrations below. Hope this helps. Cheers Dallas Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page ------------------------------------------------- Births Dec 1843 ------------------------------------------------- SUMRELL James Neath 26 436 ------------------------------------------------- Births Mar 1846 ------------------------------------------------- Sumrell Theophilus Neath 26 448 ------------------------------------------------- Births Mar 1849 ------------------------------------------------- Sumrell Elizabeth Neath 26 483 ------------------------------------------------ Births Jun 1855 ------------------------------------------------ Sumrell John Neath 11a 447 ------------------------------------------------ Deaths Dec 1857 ------------------------------------------------ Sumrell Rezia Neath 11a 2_5 Surname First name(s) Age District Vol Page ----------------------------------------------- Marriages Sep 1859 ----------------------------------------------- Davies David Neath 11a 589 Harris Mary Neath 11a 589 Jones Mary Ann Merthyr T 11a 589 Southern Martha Neath 11a 589 Sumrell Alfred Neath 11a 589 -----Original Message----- From: Howard [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, 4 December 2008 10:16 PM To: Gloucester Subject: [GLS] Samuels/Barnes Hello Gloucester Listers I am trying to trace my husbands great grandfather x2 Alfred/Martin Samuels. He makes only one official appearance (Martin Samuells) and that is in the 1881 Census for Claines, Worcester where it states he was born in Cardiff and is aged 42. His wife is Matilda (Barnes) born in Cheltenham 2/10/1849. They have one child Sydney born (Sidney Barnes Martin) 15/11/1876 in Claines. We can trace Matildas parents marriage in the parish church in Cheltenham in March 1849 and their deaths in 1882. We know that Matilda was still single in the 1871 Census but we cannot find any trace of Martin & Matilda's marriage, his birth or death record. By the 1891 Census Matilda is a widow. He appears as Martin on Sidney's birth certificate and on the two subsequent children's birth certificates. However, on Sidney's marriage certificate it just states 'deceased' under' Father's Name' and on his daughters marriage certificate is states 'Alfred Samuels Deceased. Also when Matilda dies in Kent in 1917 she is described as 'widow of Alfred Samuels'. Recently with guidance I found an Alfred Samuels aged 13 in the 1851 Wales Census living with his parents James and Keziah Samuels (both aged 32) and three other siblings. On Family History online the name has been transcribed as Samuell and on Ancestry. co as Sanvell It gives the birth county for Alfred and his parents as Gloucestershire! So can anybody help with the birth /marriage of James and Keziah and the birth of Alfred Samuels in Gloucestershire. Thanking you Wendy Samuels _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message