Sincere thanks to all the Listers who were kind enough to answer my query and forwarding me so much valuable information which I will most certainly follow up. Apologies for not including the name of the people I am looking for. I am looking for information on my ggGrandparents, Charles SMITH and Hester(Esther) nee BEER. They were both listed as age 25 on the 1841 Census. Their eldest child on the Census was listed as age 9, which seems to make them very young when first child born. This would also have them married approx. 1832 at only 16 or 17 years of age. Birth place of both was listed as Gloucester. I do hope all you folks on this list realise what a valuable asset you are for us who live so far away. Many thanks Joan in Oz

In October a Karen Wintle was looking for baptisms/marriages of Isaac TROTMAN - North Nibley. I have just been looking through some e-mails which I meant to respond to but where did the time go. Anyway I also have a Trotman in my family tree. John FREAN/FREEM married Sarah TRATMAN (Trotman) at Berkeley Parish Church in 1732. I also have a HARRIET WINTLE who married GEORGE SINEGAR 1812 in Cam, Gloucestershire. I wondered whether there is any connection. If Karen reads this I would love to hear from her. Maureen in Leicestershire.

It just shows how careful you need to be with figures!! The first paragraph below of course should have been "Charles and Hester could have been anything between 25 and 29." Many apologies for the error! Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pat Hase" <pat@pathase.demon.co.uk> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:22 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Maps & Smiths > HI Joan, > > The ages of anyone over the age of 15 on the 1841 census was were supposed > to be approximated to the nearest 5 years downwards so that your Charles > and > Hester could have been anything between 15 and 29. > > On the 4th Jan I sent this message to the list - did you get it? > > The marriage index 1800-1837 produced by the Glos FHS on CD see > www.gfhs.org.uk has the following entry > Charles SMITH to Hester BEER 16 April 1832 St John the Baptist Gloucester > by > banns. > > If they were both 29 in 1841 that would have made them about 20 when they > were married - both technically under age - ie under 21 so requiring > parental consent. > > Pat > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joan Canning" <ja.perl@bigpond.net.au> > To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:23 AM > Subject: [GLS] Maps & Smiths > > >> Sincere thanks to all the Listers who were kind enough to answer my query >> and forwarding me so much valuable information which I will most >> certainly >> follow up. >> >> Apologies for not including the name of the people I am looking for. I >> am >> looking for information on my ggGrandparents, Charles SMITH and >> Hester(Esther) nee BEER. They were both listed as age 25 on the 1841 >> Census. Their eldest child on the Census was listed as age 9, which >> seems >> to make them very young when first child born. This would also have them >> married approx. 1832 at only 16 or 17 years of age. Birth place of both >> was listed as Gloucester. >> >> I do hope all you folks on this list realise what a valuable asset you >> are >> for us who live so far away. >> >> Many thanks >> Joan in Oz >> >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Browse the list archives at: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ >> >> Keyword search - any or all lists: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Peter Hughes wrote: > I have a marriage in 1821 which was solemnized "With consent of friends". > > What should I infer from this? > > I suspect that this is a situation where a bond was required to be submitted in support of a marriage licence. Bonds were sworn statements containing assurances by a couple's friends or relatives that they knew of no impediment to a marriage, confirming that the couple would marry in a specified church, and also stating the money by which they were bound and which would be forfeited if the licence was not complied with. (Herber, Ancestral Trails). The need for such bonds was abolished in 1823. David Steel

I am tring to find a Dr McCabe who lived in Cheltenham about 1831. His christian names could have been either Charles, Martin or both. I believe he was a medical practioner. I have no other details. Can anyone assist please ? Maurice Brown (in sunny New Plymouth, New Zealand.)

the enumeration description reads (approx) as :- "" District 1 After Sudbrook before High Orchard South Side of the road leading to.....High Orchard""" East of London FHS member All e'mail scanned by McAfee virusscan

HI Joan, The ages of anyone over the age of 15 on the 1841 census was were supposed to be approximated to the nearest 5 years downwards so that your Charles and Hester could have been anything between 15 and 29. On the 4th Jan I sent this message to the list - did you get it? The marriage index 1800-1837 produced by the Glos FHS on CD see www.gfhs.org.uk has the following entry Charles SMITH to Hester BEER 16 April 1832 St John the Baptist Gloucester by banns. If they were both 29 in 1841 that would have made them about 20 when they were married - both technically under age - ie under 21 so requiring parental consent. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Canning" <ja.perl@bigpond.net.au> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: [GLS] Maps & Smiths > Sincere thanks to all the Listers who were kind enough to answer my query > and forwarding me so much valuable information which I will most certainly > follow up. > > Apologies for not including the name of the people I am looking for. I am > looking for information on my ggGrandparents, Charles SMITH and > Hester(Esther) nee BEER. They were both listed as age 25 on the 1841 > Census. Their eldest child on the Census was listed as age 9, which seems > to make them very young when first child born. This would also have them > married approx. 1832 at only 16 or 17 years of age. Birth place of both > was listed as Gloucester. > > I do hope all you folks on this list realise what a valuable asset you are > for us who live so far away. > > Many thanks > Joan in Oz > > > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

This looks like them, Charles is working as a porter. It seems they moved to Birmingam between the births of the 11 year old and the 8 year old. 1851 England Census about Charles Smith Name: Charles Smith Age: 38 Estimated birth year: abt 1813 Relation: Head Spouse's name: Esther Gender: Male Where born: Shire, Gloucestershire, England Civil parish: Aston County/Island: Warwickshire Country: England Registration district: Aston Sub-registration district: Duddeston ED, institution, or vessel: 25 Household schedule number: 77 Household Members: Name Age Charles Smith 38 Charles Smith 8 Eliza Smith 3 Elizabeth Smith 13 Ellen Smith 2 Emily Smith 11 Esther Smith 37 James Smith 14 Sarah Ann Smith 6 Serina Smith 4 Thomas Smith 18 William Smith 20 Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2061; Folio: 582; Page: 20; GSU roll: 87317-87319. Karen

Ages on the 1841 census were meant to be rounded down to a multiple of 5 years so if the form was completed correctly (lots weren't) they could have been 29. If you look at others on the page you can usually work out it the enumerator was following the rules. You could also check on the other censuses to see if the eldest child is listed as their child. There are no relationships on 1841 so it is easy to make assumptions that are incorrect. The child could be a sibling/cousin/niece/nephew etc. I'll see if I can find them in 1851. Karen ----- Original Message ----- From: "Joan Canning" <ja.perl@bigpond.net.au> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 10:23 AM Subject: [GLS] Maps & Smiths > Sincere thanks to all the Listers who were kind enough to answer my query > and forwarding me so much valuable information which I will most certainly > follow up. > > Apologies for not including the name of the people I am looking for. I am > looking for information on my ggGrandparents, Charles SMITH and > Hester(Esther) nee BEER. They were both listed as age 25 on the 1841 > Census. Their eldest child on the Census was listed as age 9, which seems > to make them very young when first child born. This would also have them > married approx. 1832 at only 16 or 17 years of age. Birth place of both > was listed as Gloucester. > > I do hope all you folks on this list realise what a valuable asset you are > for us who live so far away. > > Many thanks > Joan in Oz > > > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.410 / Virus Database: 268.17.3/642 - Release Date: 20/01/2007 > >

Joan Canning wrote: > Apologies for not including the name of the people I am looking > for. I am looking for information on my ggGrandparents, Charles > SMITH and Hester(Esther) nee BEER. They were both listed as age 25 > on the 1841 Census. Their eldest child on the Census was listed as > age 9, which seems to make them very young when first child born. > This would also have them married approx. 1832 at only 16 or 17 > years of age. Birth place of both was listed as Gloucester. No, they wouldn't necessarily have been 16 or 17. In fact, it's unlikely that they were that young when their first child was born, not impossible though, of course. The 1841 census rounded *down* ages, thus someone shown as 25 would have been somewhere between 25 and 29. Children up to the age of 15 had their ages shown exactly but a 15 year old would be anything between 15 and 19. It's the only census there was such an instruction and not all enumerators complied either. Remember as well that age wasn't as important to our ancestors as it is to us, so they may not have remembered their ages accurately either. Once someone reached 60, or believed they had, the ages were rounded down to the nearest 10. So someone of 60 would be anywhere between 60 and 69. This was something I didn't know until recently It was an archivist who told me so I've no reason to doubt it and it could account for why I haven't been able to find some ancestors - I've not been looking far enough back! -- Charani (UK)

Hello Maurice, We have found a James McCabe as a physician in Cheltenham in the 1830 Pigot's Commercial Directory. He is living at 18 Cambray Place, Cheltenham. There is a mention of him in Gwen Hart's book "A History of Cheltenham". In about 1832 Dr McCabe appears in a list of names of men who supported the Cheltenham Liberals. They formed a society called " The Cheltenham Loyal and Patriotic Association for the purpose of obtaining a full, fair and free representation of the People in the Commons' House of Parliament". This was at a time of great controversy over the government's Reform Bill. Hope this is of interest to you, regards, Pat & Maurice Crewe ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maurice Brown" <emanjay@infogen.net.nz> To: <GLOUCESTER@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, January 21, 2007 2:23 AM Subject: [GLS] McCabe >I am tring to find a Dr McCabe who lived in Cheltenham about 1831. > His christian names could have been either Charles, Martin or both. I > believe he was a medical practioner. I have no other details. > Can anyone assist please ? > Maurice Brown > (in sunny New Plymouth, New Zealand.) > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Listers, I have just joined and wondered if anyone is researching the above names. I am stuck with the Rudges where I can't get back reliably further than James 1864 born in Gloucester, he married Annie Morse. James Frederick's father may have been James and his mother Martha. His uncle may have been Peter and I think they are from Dursley but I haven't been very successful verifying any of it. The Morses and Lodge are more complete but I am curious why Emma Morse (nee Lodge) had some of her children in Westbury and some in Cardiff. Her Husband was Thomas Morse, a saddler. So if anyone can help with these surnames I'd love to be in touch. I have recently moved to Gloucestershire and started on this element of my tree. Thanks Sam

Many thanks to all who have offered advice. I can find no connection with the Quakers and I am inclined to believe that one of the parties was an orphan and under age. Thank you again. Peter

Hi everyone, greetings from Sydney, Australia. Not sure how relevant this is to the thread, but - When it comes to marriages in England before mid 1837, these could only be legally solemnised in the established Church of England. The only exceptions that I am aware of were if you were a Quaker or of the Jewish faith, who were allowed to conduct their own ceremonies. Regards Tony Smith ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:47 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Friends > Peter Hughes wrote: > >> I have a marriage in 1821 which was solemnized "With consent of >> friends". >> >> What should I infer from this? > > Either the bride and/or groom were under age. Probably the parent/s > of whichever one it was (or both) were dead or otherwise not in a > position to give consent, so friends over the age of 21 gave consent > in their place. Was either the under age spouse away from his/her > home parish? If so, that could be the possible reason for "consent of > friends". > > > -- > Charani (UK) > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hello Janet, To add substance to the marriage Evaline found, here is the entry from the OFHS PR Transcripts of Churchill: 18 November 1793 BLANFORD Wiliam, b, of Cobberley Glos and FOWLER Mary, sp, otp by Banns. William made his mark and the Witnesses were John FOWLER & Ann STANBRIG There is this record in the Baptisms section of the Transcripts: Born 24 June baptised 4 July 1762 Mary FOWLER d Richard & Mary There is also a John FOWLER baptised on 29 April 1754 s Richard & Mary plus other siblings. Hope this helps. Janet > The only marriage for a William and Mary I have been able to find is 18th > November 1793 at Churchill, Oxfordshire. Which is really just over the > border from Gloucestershire and it is for a William Blandford to Mary > Fowler. > -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 7252 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now!

On 21 Jan, Maurice Brown <emanjay@infogen.net.nz> wrote: > I am tring to find a Dr McCabe who lived in Cheltenham about 1831. His > christian names could have been either Charles, Martin or both. I > believe he was a medical practioner. I have no other details. Hi Maurice, James M'CABE, Physician, was listed at 18 Cambray Place, Cheltenham in Pigot's Directory of Gloucestershire for 1830. http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/eng/GLS/Cheltenham/Pigot1830.html Josephine -- Josephine's Books, Ian's Pages, The Clutton 'Do' and the Glamorganshire Canal. http://www.ianandjo.dsl.pipex.com

Charani thank you for your reply and advice. Have tried both suggestions, but have been unable to find the location I am seeking. Am endeavouring to find the location of an address I have from a 1841 Census in the hope I may be able to find the nearest Church with the further hope of locating parish records. The address: High Orchard Row, Hempstead, South Hamlet. Registration District: Gloucester Union; Civil Parish: Hempstead; Sub-District: South Hamlet. No Ecclesiastical Parish recorded. Any ideas or advice would be greatly appreciated. Joan in Oz. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Charani" <familyhunter@family-hunter.co.uk> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 7:33 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Maps > Joan Canning wrote: > >> Could anyone advise a good web site for looking up old maps of >> Gloucester, Gloucestershire. > > www.old-maps.co.uk > > Googling "old maps + Gloucester" *with* the quotation marks will > probably bring up other sites. > > -- > Charani (UK) > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I have a marriage that took place on the 26 December 1831 in Caerwent Monmouth and the words "with conset of friends" is shown. The couple were married after banns by a Rev William Jones. The bride was only 19. Ursula Brisbane Qld ----- Original Message ----- From: "Derek S M Cusick" <derek1@iinet.net.au> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:59 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Friends > Hi Peter , > possibly refering to their Religion " Friends Meeting Houses", Quakers. > I may be miles off , but that was my first thought. > Derek in Western Australia. > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Peter Hughes" <pete@dursley12.fsnet.co.uk> > To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:57 AM > Subject: [GLS] Friends > > >>I have a marriage in 1821 which was solemnized "With consent of friends". >> >> What should I infer from this? >> >> Peter >> >> _____________________________________________ >> >> Browse the list archives at: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ >> >> Keyword search - any or all lists: >> http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hi Janet I have seen the parish record for Jabez and it states Jabus son of William Blandford and Mary. Regarding William and Mary. IGI have a marriage dated c 1794 at Brimpsfield for William and Mary However, I trawled all through the Brimpsfield parish records at the GRO and couldn't find a marriage in Brimpsfield from about 1770 - 1800, so I don't think they married there. This below is only a supposition and has not been proven. The only marriage for a William and Mary I have been able to find is 18th November 1793 at Churchill, Oxfordshire. Which is really just over the border from Gloucestershire and it is for a William Blandford to Mary Fowler. I have found a William Blandford born at Coberley which is not too far from Brimpsfield in 1758. I think this is the one who married Mary Fowler at Churchill. If this is Patience and Jabez's father his parents are Charles Blandford and Mary. At the time of going to GRO I only had 2 hours and had other things to look up as well, I must admit I was more interested in who was born and married rather than who had been buried. If the Brimpsfield parish records lists the age of the person who has died, we might be able to find out more about William from there. Someone did look in the burials for me in case any of the children had died but they only looked up to 1812. Unfortunately, I find it difficult to visit the GRO now as I have moved to Anglesey, the only time I can visit is at the week-end and that makes it very difficult. HTH Eveline ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Iles" <jiles@bmts.com> To: <gloucester@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 3:32 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] BLANDFORDS in Brimpsfield > Thanks Eveline for your information on the Iles/Blandford family. > > I will order the Brimpsfield Parish records again and explore the earlier > information. > For some reason I have not ordered the death records for Richard and > Patience but I will put them on my list to do so. > > I believe I have the 1851 census for Patience and Richard. I am behind in my > organization of Iles records. > > Who do you have as the parents of Patience and Jabez? > > Thank you for your help, > > Janet Iles > > -----Original Message-----] On Behalf Of Eveline Clarke > Sent: Saturday, January 20, 2007 5:32 AM > Subject: Re: [GLS] BLANDFORDS in Brimpsfield > > Hi > > My husband is descended from Patience's brother Jabez. > > I have a christening date of 17th July 1795 at Brimpsfield for Patience. > Unfortunately, I didn't make a note of where that date came from so I cannot > authenticate it. > > Marriage 21st October 1822 and death 16th November 1879 aged 84 which is > right for a birth of 1795. > > Free BMD has her death registered at Cirencester. > Deaths Dec 1879 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Iles Patience 84 Cirencester 6a 247 > > > > Regarding Mary Ann Blandford (Patience's daughter before she married Richard > Iles) I have her christening as 19th April 1818 and her death as 24th April > 1851. As with the above, I didn't make a note of where the information came > from, so I cannot authenticate it. > > With regard to Jeremiah I have the 1851 census > Which shows him age 17 and a servant to the Maltster and Baker in > Brimpsfield > > I have the 1851 census details for Patience and Richard if you would like > them. > > In respect of the 1871 census for Harriett Isles. Her age of 56 would put > her birth year as 1815. I have searched for Harriett Burbidge's death from > 1871 to 1900 and freeBMD has just the one so it must be her. That puts her > as being born 1819 but in those days ages are often a few years either side. > > Deaths Mar 1879 > -------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Burbidge Harriett 60 Cheltenham 6a 320 > > > I must add that it is most unusual for me not to make a note of where my > information came from. It must have come to me when I first started > researching, when I didn't realise the importance of keeping very strict > notes. However, I think that the names may have come from my husband's > cousin, as I have a copy of an e.mail from him saying Patience had 18 > children (three before her marriage). He did not list them all, but of the > few he did we have Harriett Blandford born 1821 and Harriett Iles born 1824. > Looking at Harriett's death age 60 it is obvious that the one he gave me > christened 1824 is incorrect and I have deleted it from my data bank. > > Regards > > Eveline > > > > _____________________________________________ > > Browse the list archives at: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/GLOUCESTER/ > > Keyword search - any or all lists: > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/search > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GLOUCESTER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

"With consent of friends" would be referring to a Quaker marriage I woud think! >From memory- The congregation or gathering of friends at the service to witness the fact that this couple have agreed to marriage. There is never a service as such at a quaker church. They wait for the spirit to descend on someone who will then make a speach prayer or whatever. Joy