And here is the URL for the whole List in case anyone wants to view more http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonMisc/GameLists/index.html Bev

Hello I am currently helping to transcibe GAME LISTS from the Exeter Flying Post from 1800- 1859. If you go here as an example http://genuki.cs.ncl.ac.uk/DEV/DevonMisc/GameLists/GameList1842-4009.html You will note all those that obtained such Licence's to be able to shoot game. Therefore Game Keepers would need a License. There is a hefty fine for shooting game without such a Licence. I would imagine anyone with a Gale subscription could obtain the same for any County. I have also seen them for Cornwall and Gloucetershire although I did not keep copies. I no longer have access to Gale otherwise I would look. Regards Bev > > Can any one confirm this theory and is there any "registers or lists" of > game keepers? > >

In a message dated 01/11/2008 00:27:24 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Don't forget the postage system with Stamps started in 1840, there had been 1d postage in some areas before that. People read and wrote for other people. The postal system in Great Britain had functioned since Early Modern times. The FLINT family letters date from 1793, where a sheet of paper was folded after writing, the address written on the outside, taken by the postman to the post office and franked. It took a couple of days at the most for a letter to reach the post office from which it was to be delivered, when it was franked again. In London the postal system was so good that it was similar to the telegram system with messages being exchanged throughout the day between correspondents. Before the railway mail coaches were in use for longer journeys. I don't think it should be assumed that there was widespread illiteracy at any time within this country. The fact that a person did not sign a marriage register may be because they were simply asked to 'make a mark' and so they complied, putting an X rather than writing their name. Reading is an easier skill than writing. I am leaning Russian and can read Cyrillic script, even if I do not understand the meaning of the words, but am hard pressed to write anything as yet... Cheers, Janet Heskins

Hi Jon CLWYD-L Archives 21 Jan 2003 No. 1043173666 has the following:- Thank you for the email address regarding the Gamekeepers Index that she has compiled. she have been collecting the information for many years throughout England and Wales, with more limited information from Scotland. The earliest dates are from 1710 the upper limit is 1900. To date there are around 100,000 entries. Look it up for all the info If you google gamekeepers, you will find some lists for Norfolk and Wiltshire. Regards Dawn [email protected]

________________________________ Original From: J GOULD <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 17:10:59 Subject: Re: [GLS] keepers Rural Gloucestershire to the cities <Farmers tended to be better educated than the hoi polloi. They needed this to be able to run the farm and sell their produce.  Jeff   Dar All As regards "Farmers" and "Ag Labs" it is necessary to consider the timeline. Almost every villager was a "Farmer" to some extent, before enclosure and subsequent "purchase" of villagers land to consolidate holdings, thus making the the villager "Farmer" a servant or Ag Lab of the wealthy man who had built up a large holding. When you look at your family trees and see 12, 14, 20 children of a man described in the 1841 Census as a "Farmer" and 10 years later "Farmer of 200 acres employing 6 men", consider: if these 6 men are his sons, on his death, how much land will each have? Very often it all went to the eldest, who is subsequently described as "Farmer" and the others become "Ag Labs" And what of the next generation?  If only the eldest son inherited, then younger siblings as well as cousins were destined to be described as "Ag Labs" The Ag Lab was not therefore necessarily un-educated, just poor. Hence, when new opportunities for earning a living elsewhere in Britain, (Midlands, Lancashire, Yorkshire - Industrial, Wales & Yorkshire - Mining) or even Overseas in the Dominions, people moved.  Jim Parsons http://www.payman.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk

Hi Being a country lad..... I wouldn't say a Gamekeeper was a step up from a Farmer, they are very different trades. Their literacy was variable; the average Gamekeeper job was/is very much hands on and literacy would not be a requirement unless he managed other men or a big estate on behalf of the Landlord. As you say, a Gamekeeper was often unpopular with locals who were keen to Poach the landlords game for their own supper. There is a saying that the best Gamekeepers were once poachers! A good Gamekeeper is very hard to find today and I am sure they were also sought throughout the country years ago. I would not expect there to be a register for Gamekeepers. If the Trade was Farmer, this was a step up from the Ag Lab as they were often managers of the farm, with more responsibilities and literacy. The Ag Labs did the labouring without 'management' responsibility. Of course, there were/are many sizes of farms, the census often gives details of farmed land and employees. Hope this is useful. >From a cold, damp Brussels (born & bred somerset, UK) Barry -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of J GOULD Sent: 31 October 2008 18:11 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLS] keepers Rural Gloucestershire to the cities Brian, Gamekeeping was definitely a step up. My impression is that gamekeepers were recruited from some distance away, even Scotland. The gamekeeper's cottage was of a superior construction to that of the ag lab, and was aimed at attracting a better type of man. Only the bigger farms and estates employed gamekeepers.  Plenty of these cottages survive and command a superior price.   Farmers tended to be better educated than the hoi polloi. They needed this to be able to run the farm and sell their produce.  Jeff       ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Blackwell <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 4:34:55 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities Thank you Janet & Jeff for your replies Jeff you mentioned that railway workers were required to read and write "which was unusual at this time for Ag Labs" On Richards 1841 Birmingham marriage certificate his occupation was railway guard, (he was a station master later) and lists his father Harry as a "Game Keeper" I presume a game keeper was a slight step up in farming hierarchy, so would it be possible for this household be able to read and write? I have not found any confirmation of his father being a game keeper, so I am not sure if he was trying to impress the city folks by putting this occupation down for his dad. I have read articles about game keepers not being liked in the communities were they lived, as they prevented the local ag labs from augmenting a meager diet with meat and his employer thought he was being cheated by his game keeper anyway! Can any one confirm this theory and is there any "registers or lists" of game keepers? Thank you any information would be appreciated Brian on a very wet morning on The Sunshine Coast Sechelt BC _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details?  Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brian The Gloucestershire RO does have a register of game keepers. But don't get your hopes up. My Great Grandfather (from Lower Slaughter) listed his father's occupation as game keeper when he married, but there was no sign of him on the register. I suspect this was just wishful thinking, as it turned out GGF was illegitimate, almost certainly by one of the family of the Lower Slaughter Manor (Whitworths). Jon Baker -----Original Message----- Can any one confirm this theory and is there any "registers or lists" of game keepers?

I actually disagree with what Jeff has said about people ability to read and write and those not with these skill were not involved with the railways in the early 1800's, maybe they were not involved in the engineering but most certainly labour was required and thousand of men were employed in the creation of the railway: One of the first early trials of Wylam locomotives was watched by George Stephenson, in 1813 Stephenson as instructed by his employer to build a locomotive, when the locomotive called Blucher was completed in 1814, it was the first locomotive to be driven by adhesion, and have flanged wheels running on edge rails. Stephenson built more locomotives and in about 1819 he laid out the Hetton Collier Railway, from Hetton-le-Hole to Sunderland, as the first railway designed to have no animal traction, the route was 8 miles long. Wealthy people took advantage of railway speed having private carriages with their occupant were carried on flat wagons wherever the railway coincided with a travellers intended rote, or part of it. Second class coaches, simple but roofed, were provided, third class coaches, for the poor, were little more than open boxes on wheels, the speed must have felt miraculous in comparison to those on feet or by road carrier. Third class passenger was entitled by law from 1844 to be carried in carriages provided with seats and protected from the weather. In 1833 flagpoles were installed at junctions and crossings and the following year 1834 saw the first fixed signals. Greenwich was opened in 1839, and the route extended to Brighton by the London & Brighton railway opened in 1841. The Great Western opened its first section at the London end in 1838 and reached Bristol in 1841; Box tunnel had taken 5 years to make. By 1841 the Bristol & Exeter was already open to Bridgewater, and reached Exeter in 1844. The broad gauge Bristol & Gloucester Railway was opened in 1844, and at Gloucester for the first time broad gauge met standard gauge, for the Birmingham & Gloucester had been opened in 1840. Most of the other railways authorised in 1836 to make a south west to north west route were completed between 1839 and 1844; the Manchester & Leeds was opened in 1840 and the Sheffield, Ashton under Lyne & Manchester in 1845. The first trunk railway in Scotland was the Edinburgh & Glasgow authorised in 1838 and opened in 1842. British railway networks from a little over 1600 miles in 1842, the distance covered had grown to 6084 miles in 1850 and by 1860 the basic railway network of lowland Britain was in existence, the remainder of the railway system was built up over the ensuing 60 years. Regards Gillian -------------------------------------------------- From: "J GOULD" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:45 PM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities > Brian, 1841 was pretty early in Railway history. It was mostly main lines > that were operating at that time. > Railway work demanded an ability to read and write, which was not > generally an attribute of the ag labs > at this period. Jobs were advertised in the newspapers. I know for a fact > that one of my ancestors moved > from Bristol to Pontypridd in the late 1840s in response to such an > advert. Jeff > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Brian Blackwell <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 11:08:40 AM > Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities > > > > My Blackwell line moved from Bisley/Miserden to Birmingham around 1830, > was > there any organised method of attracting manpower into Birmingham or just > "word of mouth". > > My rural 4xgg Richard Blackwell worked for the railway on his 1841 > marriage > certificate (Birmingham) does anyone know if the railway was near > Bisley/Miserden for him to have had a railway connection before he arrived > in Birmingham? > > Richard gave Miserdine as his place of birth on the 1851 Birmingham > census. > > Brian Blackwell > Sechelt BC > > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on > www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will > then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on > www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will > then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Brian, Gamekeeping was definitely a step up. My impression is that gamekeepers were recruited from some distance away, even Scotland. The gamekeeper's cottage was of a superior construction to that of the ag lab, and was aimed at attracting a better type of man. Only the bigger farms and estates employed gamekeepers.  Plenty of these cottages survive and command a superior price.   Farmers tended to be better educated than the hoi polloi. They needed this to be able to run the farm and sell their produce.  Jeff       ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Blackwell <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 4:34:55 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities Thank you Janet & Jeff for your replies Jeff you mentioned that railway workers were required to read and write "which was unusual at this time for Ag Labs" On Richards 1841 Birmingham marriage certificate his occupation was railway guard, (he was a station master later) and lists his father Harry as a "Game Keeper" I presume a game keeper was a slight step up in farming hierarchy, so would it be possible for this household be able to read and write? I have not found any confirmation of his father being a game keeper, so I am not sure if he was trying to impress the city folks by putting this occupation down for his dad. I have read articles about game keepers not being liked in the communities were they lived, as they prevented the local ag labs from augmenting a meager diet with meat and his employer thought he was being cheated by his game keeper anyway! Can any one confirm this theory and is there any "registers or lists" of game keepers? Thank you any information would be appreciated Brian on a very wet morning on The Sunshine Coast Sechelt BC _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details?  Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Diana, It was for work that they moved and Birmingham was where the work was.  Farms were laying off staff because, with the repeal of the Corn Laws, cheap grain was coming in from North America and undercutting what the locals could produce. Growers' margins suffered and some were obliged to use mechanisation to compete, which meant fewer jobs. Village mills which handled local produce relied on water and wind power. They were put out of business by steam power which needed coal and capital and was concentrated where coal was readily available. Without the village mill, farmers had to take their produce further afield which again hit their margins. The steam traction engine was a sort of interim measure. These were hired out to farmers to do the ploughing and harvests but removed more permanent jobs.  Jeff   . ----- Original Message ---- From: Diana Robinson <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 4:28:10 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities I'm particularly interested in why folks moved to Birmingham. I have one line that was solidly in the south-west, and then suddenly appears in Birmingham, and have often wondered what led to the switch. Happy hunting! Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) Now in Rochester, NY, USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities With reference to the movement of people from rural areas to cities, this is well known. Novels by Mrs Gaskell, such as 'North and South' and 'Mary  Barton', deal with this topic in detail. Nailsworth, where my HESKINS  family lived was no rural idyll. The  noise from the woollen mills was no great that it was not recommended as a place where ladies of a delicate constitution would choose to live according to a  contemporary message displayed in the Dunkirk Mills exhibition. When the mill wheels are put into working mode it is almost impossible to hear  another person speaking... Members of the HESKINS family did move elsewhere during the first half  of the nineteenth century. My own part of the family moved to Wotton-under-Edge.  Ancestor Henry Matthew HESKINS moved on to Bristol, Wells, London, Witham  [Essex] and died in Worcester. But he was a brushmaker and brushmakers tended to  travel.    Another family line moved to Bristol, where they prospered for a while.  Others are found in Birmingham, Cheltenham, Bath and Neath in south Wales, not  all from the Nailsworth family but all probably derived from a family living in  Wotton-under-Edge in the sixteenth century. None of the HESKINses went overseas at this stage. A number of  Horsley/Nailsworth residents did sail for the Antipodes when the Gloucestershire  cloth industry went in to a decline, however. Nailsworth Mill, owned by Abraham Marsh FLINT was amongst the last of the mills to continue in business in the  industrial village. It had previously been run by HESKINS, BARNARD and BLISS. As has been said by Jane ...the times they were a'changing... Cheers, Janet Heskins _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details?  Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi, I'm part of a large THOMPSON family, from both the Bitton, GLS and Publow, SOM areas. I finally learned that several of them migrated to Selly Oak, nr Bham, for work (Elliot's Metal's a key new employer) when the local copper mills closed abt 1860. Cheers, Marsha Stringer (nee MEERE) [email protected] USA www.bittonfamilies.com -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Diana Robinson Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 12:28 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities I'm particularly interested in why folks moved to Birmingham. I have one line that was solidly in the south-west, and then suddenly appears in Birmingham, and have often wondered what led to the switch. Happy hunting! Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) Now in Rochester, NY, USA

Brian, 1841 was pretty early in Railway history. It was mostly main lines that were operating at that time. Railway work demanded an ability to read and write, which was not generally an attribute of the ag labs at this period.  Jobs were advertised in the newspapers.  I know for a fact that one of my ancestors moved from Bristol to Pontypridd in the late 1840s in response to such an advert.  Jeff ----- Original Message ---- From: Brian Blackwell <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, 31 October, 2008 11:08:40 AM Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities My Blackwell line moved from Bisley/Miserden to Birmingham around 1830, was there any organised method of attracting manpower into Birmingham or just "word of mouth". My rural 4xgg Richard Blackwell worked for the railway on his 1841 marriage certificate (Birmingham) does anyone know if the railway was near Bisley/Miserden for him to have had a railway connection before he arrived in Birmingham? Richard gave Miserdine as his place of birth on the 1851 Birmingham census. Brian Blackwell Sechelt  BC _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details?  Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I'm particularly interested in why folks moved to Birmingham. I have one line that was solidly in the south-west, and then suddenly appears in Birmingham, and have often wondered what led to the switch. Happy hunting! Diana Robinson (nee Gardner) Now in Rochester, NY, USA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 6:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities With reference to the movement of people from rural areas to cities, this is well known. Novels by Mrs Gaskell, such as 'North and South' and 'Mary Barton', deal with this topic in detail. Nailsworth, where my HESKINS family lived was no rural idyll. The noise from the woollen mills was no great that it was not recommended as a place where ladies of a delicate constitution would choose to live according to a contemporary message displayed in the Dunkirk Mills exhibition. When the mill wheels are put into working mode it is almost impossible to hear another person speaking... Members of the HESKINS family did move elsewhere during the first half of the nineteenth century. My own part of the family moved to Wotton-under-Edge. Ancestor Henry Matthew HESKINS moved on to Bristol, Wells, London, Witham [Essex] and died in Worcester. But he was a brushmaker and brushmakers tended to travel. Another family line moved to Bristol, where they prospered for a while. Others are found in Birmingham, Cheltenham, Bath and Neath in south Wales, not all from the Nailsworth family but all probably derived from a family living in Wotton-under-Edge in the sixteenth century. None of the HESKINses went overseas at this stage. A number of Horsley/Nailsworth residents did sail for the Antipodes when the Gloucestershire cloth industry went in to a decline, however. Nailsworth Mill, owned by Abraham Marsh FLINT was amongst the last of the mills to continue in business in the industrial village. It had previously been run by HESKINS, BARNARD and BLISS. As has been said by Jane ...the times they were a'changing... Cheers, Janet Heskins

Thanks a whole bunch for that information. cheers Karen (NZ) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janet Booth" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [GLS] Belcher Randall/Randell > Hello again Karen, > > Go into the IGI Family Search site, enter in Robert BELCHER's details and > search. When his info comes up,click on his name and when his info page > comes up click on the Batch No C027981 on the left hand side. This brings > up another search page purely for this batch no recorded by the IGI. > Enter > BELCHER into the Last Name field and his father's name (in this case > Robert) > and his mother's name (Ann) and click on search. This will bring up all > the > BELCHER children baptised with father's name Robert and mother's name Ann. > If you want to find any BELCHERs baptised at Duntisbourne, just put in the > surname BELCHER and search on that. Another way of looking for specific > surname extracted baptisms at a specific parish is to search on Hugh > Wallis's IGI site > (http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~hughwallis/IGIBatchNumbers/CountryEngland.htm#PageTitle) > but not all the extracted baptisms on the IGI site have been transferred > to > Hugh Wallis's site so you really need to search both. From the baptisms > of > Robert & Ann's children, you should be able to correlate some of the > burials > I gave you. > > HTH further > > Janet > > >> Sorry to bother you again Janet. But could you tell me please how to find >> the siblings of Robert Belcher 1803. And could the Belchers buried at >> Duntisbourne be children of his maybe. thanks for your help. >> Karen (NZ) > > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on > www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will > then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you Janet & Jeff for your replies Jeff you mentioned that railway workers were required to read and write "which was unusual at this time for Ag Labs" On Richards 1841 Birmingham marriage certificate his occupation was railway guard, (he was a station master later) and lists his father Harry as a "Game Keeper" I presume a game keeper was a slight step up in farming hierarchy, so would it be possible for this household be able to read and write? I have not found any confirmation of his father being a game keeper, so I am not sure if he was trying to impress the city folks by putting this occupation down for his dad. I have read articles about game keepers not being liked in the communities were they lived, as they prevented the local ag labs from augmenting a meager diet with meat and his employer thought he was being cheated by his game keeper anyway! Can any one confirm this theory and is there any "registers or lists" of game keepers? Thank you any information would be appreciated Brian on a very wet morning on The Sunshine Coast Sechelt BC

Greetings to Janet et al, Janet - could you make any suggestions as to what "tracks" - paper or otherwise these country to city migrants may have left for us to discover? My 2x G.Grandfather went to London circa 1835 ,married and then returned to the Avening/Horsley area! Must have been homesick ;-). Many Thanks, bob Beale -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Friday, October 31, 2008 11:12 AM To: [email protected] Cc: Subject: Re: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities With reference to the movement of people from rural areas to cities, this is well known. Novels by Mrs Gaskell, such as 'North and South' and 'Mary Barton', deal with this topic in detail. Nailsworth, where my HESKINS family lived was no rural idyll. The noise from the woollen mills was no great that it was not recommended as a place where ladies of a delicate constitution would choose to live according to a contemporary message displayed in the Dunkirk Mills exhibition. When the mill wheels are put into working mode it is almost impossible to hear another person speaking... Members of the HESKINS family did move elsewhere during the first half of the nineteenth century. My own part of the family moved to Wotton-under-Edge. Ancestor Henry Matthew HESKINS moved on to Bristol, Wells, London, Witham [Essex] and died in Worcester. But he was a brushmaker and brushmakers tended to travel. Another family line moved to Bristol, where they prospered for a while. Others are found in Birmingham, Cheltenham, Bath and Neath in south Wales, not all from the Nailsworth family but all probably derived from a family living in Wotton-under-Edge in the sixteenth century. None of the HESKINses went overseas at this stage. A number of Horsley/Nailsworth residents did sail for the Antipodes when the Gloucestershire cloth industry went in to a decline, however. Nailsworth Mill, owned by Abraham Marsh FLINT was amongst the last of the mills to continue in business in the industrial village. It had previously been run by HESKINS, BARNARD and BLISS. As has been said by Jane ...the times they were a'changing... Cheers, Janet Heskins _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _____________________________________________________________________ Get your own family web site at www.MyFamily.com!

Hi Brian, I know that this is not a Gloucestershire response but when I wrote an essay based on the population censuses for Ashford, Kent from 1841 to 1861 it showed that boiler makers were recruited for far flung places to take up positions in the new railway workshops. Some were from the north east of England, a few from Scotland and Ireland and even a family from Russia, via Belgium. The father of this latter family may have ventured upon the railway works by chance but it looks as if the other workers were recruited as they came from such diverse parts of the country. I also noticed that the men involved in the possibly less skilled work had been born locally, whereas those in skilled jobs had moved to the area. I have a copy of a letter written by Rev Thomas FLINT, minister of Shortwood Baptist church and later Uley Independent church describing his visit to Birmingham. He was visiting at the invitation of a church that was seeking a new minister - he declined the invitation. In Birmingham he saw much in the way of metal working. It was the 'toy making' capital of the world, where 'toy' means small metal items. One of his phrases describes how in one metal working shop small pieces of metal were being shaped into earrings , whereas in the next guns were being manufactured for killing his fellow men .... Thomas Flint would possibly have spoken of this visit to his Uley congregation, where the woollen mills were soon to go into a decline [it was in 1808]. This could have put it into the minds of people to move. This is conjecture, but could have happened. Cheers, Janet Heskins In a message dated 31/10/2008 11:09:46 GMT Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My Blackwell line moved from Bisley/Miserden to Birmingham around 1830, was there any organised method of attracting manpower into Birmingham or just "word of mouth". My rural 4xgg Richard Blackwell worked for the railway on his 1841 marriage certificate (Birmingham) does anyone know if the railway was near Bisley/Miserden for him to have had a railway connection before he arrived in Birmingham? Richard gave Miserdine as his place of birth on the 1851 Birmingham census. Brian Blackwell Sechelt BC _____________________________________________ Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

With reference to the movement of people from rural areas to cities, this is well known. Novels by Mrs Gaskell, such as 'North and South' and 'Mary Barton', deal with this topic in detail. Nailsworth, where my HESKINS family lived was no rural idyll. The noise from the woollen mills was no great that it was not recommended as a place where ladies of a delicate constitution would choose to live according to a contemporary message displayed in the Dunkirk Mills exhibition. When the mill wheels are put into working mode it is almost impossible to hear another person speaking... Members of the HESKINS family did move elsewhere during the first half of the nineteenth century. My own part of the family moved to Wotton-under-Edge. Ancestor Henry Matthew HESKINS moved on to Bristol, Wells, London, Witham [Essex] and died in Worcester. But he was a brushmaker and brushmakers tended to travel. Another family line moved to Bristol, where they prospered for a while. Others are found in Birmingham, Cheltenham, Bath and Neath in south Wales, not all from the Nailsworth family but all probably derived from a family living in Wotton-under-Edge in the sixteenth century. None of the HESKINses went overseas at this stage. A number of Horsley/Nailsworth residents did sail for the Antipodes when the Gloucestershire cloth industry went in to a decline, however. Nailsworth Mill, owned by Abraham Marsh FLINT was amongst the last of the mills to continue in business in the industrial village. It had previously been run by HESKINS, BARNARD and BLISS. As has been said by Jane ...the times they were a'changing... Cheers, Janet Heskins

My Blackwell line moved from Bisley/Miserden to Birmingham around 1830, was there any organised method of attracting manpower into Birmingham or just "word of mouth". My rural 4xgg Richard Blackwell worked for the railway on his 1841 marriage certificate (Birmingham) does anyone know if the railway was near Bisley/Miserden for him to have had a railway connection before he arrived in Birmingham? Richard gave Miserdine as his place of birth on the 1851 Birmingham census. Brian Blackwell Sechelt BC

Jane, You are right on all counts. There was a mass migration from rural to urban environments (the 1851 census proved that Britain was the first country in the world to have a greater urban than rural population), yes I have seen advertisements (why not look at some of the newspapers of the period) by manufacturing companies for workers and yes depression was affecting farm workers (Swing Riots, mechanisation, greater use of pasture less of arable and effects of the Poor Law all took their toll). Some parishes even borrowed money to send surplus (to the local economy) families to Canada/USA. It was cheaper to pay the passage than pay the poor law. I am sure that families of Blacksmiths would of found skill transfer relatively easy compared to agricultural labourers (few of whom could read or write). It is hard for us to imagine the changes that moving from a Victorian village to a town would bring about but street lights, hospitals, schools, new houses, shops, higher wages, regular work (especially for women) etc would, I am sure, of been seen as good motivation at the time. MT ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Kelly" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, October 30, 2008 8:46 PM Subject: [GLS] Rural Gloucestershire to the cities > Hi Sandra and Janet,. > > Our MONKs in Minchinhampton were blacksmiths for generations but their > children either emigrated to New Zealand or went to Birmingham. One > daughter > and granddaughter worked as curtain pin or pearl button makers in the > Ladywood area. Another was a Hair Plaiter (for wigs?) The daughter's > husband > who was born in Hereford was by 1871 a Metal Roller. His son was employed > as > a Bronzer and Polisher, another a Fork Polisher presumably in the cutlery > trade.. > > I guess it was happening everywhere with changed farming methods; people > forced off the land to find work in the towns and cities. > > I couldn't see a direct link to Birmingham but perhaps jobs were > advertised. > Does anyone know? > > Best Wishes, > > Jane > > >> From: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [GLS] Seeking all Gloucestershire Smiths >> To: [email protected] >> >> Hello Janet,> > >> My STAIT family moved from Gloucestershire to Manchester in the late >> 1800's >> and as far as I can tell, it was purely for work. Perhaps it was the >> same >> for your family. >> >> Sandra >> >> >> Some interesting points arise from what has been discovered. The >> Gloucestershire HESKINS family has no connection with Manchester, so I >> wonder why they >> moved there. >> > > _____________________________________________ > > Have you considered adding "postems" to "your" events on > www.freebmd.org.uk , giving your contact details? Other researchers will > then be able to make contact. Click on the info button to add your postem. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > E-mail message checked by Internet Security (5.5.0.212) > Database version: 5.11020 > http://www.pctools.com/uk/internet-security/ E-mail message checked by Internet Security (5.5.0.212) Database version: 5.11020 http://www.pctools.com/uk/internet-security/