Thank you James & Lyn I am beginning to wonder if the 'fib' happened when he first went to sea. The records show only the ships upon which he served after his Certificate was granted. The application does show however his ship from 1863 on so I shall have to see if I can find ship's papers - they may show if he served on another before 1863. thank you both again - any insight is helpful Helen "Walking the stacks in a library, dragging your fingers across the spines ~ it's hard not to feel the presence of sleeping spirits" Robin Sloan