Interesting problem. Couple marries in 1863 in CoE but he is recorded as a bachelor and other records show he had three kids and the current spouse was too young to have had them. Was this marriage bigamous? My dictionary says bigamy is the act of ceremonially marrying one person when already legally married to another. So if his three kids were out-of-wedlock or he was no longer legally married due to divorce or death then this wouldn't be bigamy. However maybe some people might define bigamy slightly differently to leave out the word "legally". I know of people today who have gotten married long after having a family maybe because they wanted to for some legal or religious reason that became pressing. I suspect in this case there was a religious conversion in 1881 and the RC Church was either not accepting of the rites of the CoE or the mother of the kids hadn't died before the first marriage and the word 'legally" was left out of the definition and the priest now wanted for them to be able to put to bed accusations of bigamy (whether correct or not). Peace, Jim -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jane Hope Sent: Saturday, October 05, 2013 12:19 PM To: Dai & Angela Bevan; [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLA] Church Marriage If you have the marriage certificates are the signatures the same. Are you definite that this is the same couple - just thinking that, 18 years on it could be a member of the same family - unfortunately and fortunately alot of the families have the same names and it's carried down the line. Would love to know the outcome of this though. Happy hunting! Jane > Date: Sat, 5 Oct 2013 19:30:50 +0100 > From: [email protected] > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [GLA] Church Marriage > > If the groom had 3 children before the first marriage you describe, > was he already married? If he was then the marriage where he described > himself as bachelor would have been bigamous, and therefore invalid. > He may have married in the Cof E becaise the catholic priest may have > known that he (or his wife) were already married. His first, real, > wife may have died about 1881, and he therefore had a valid marriage > to the lady he had first married bigamously. > > Dai > > On 05/10/2013 18:31, K Mc wrote: > > Hi All, > > This is a general question regarding a problem with 2 church marriages that I have not come across before. It's not Glam related but I know someone will be able to come up with an answer. > > In 1863 I have a marriage of a couple (C of E ) full names..... occupations with fathers names and occupations of same. In 1881 I have the same couple showing in a RC marriage register 18 years later. The witness is exactly the same too....a brother to the groom. The exact same occupations too. > > The only difference I have seen between the two marriages is that the groom in marriage 1 declares himself as a bachelor....I know he had 3 children before 1863 marriage. Marriage 2 he describes himself as a widower....which I would expect....the bride is recorded as spinster. > > The bride in marriage 1 would have been far too young to be the mother of his 3 children. > > Would converting at that time mean anything regarding re/ marriage? I've never heard of that before. Also there is a civil registration of both marriages which confuses me further. > > > > I am truly baffled. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family > History Mailing List archives etc. are at > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html > - > This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ > - > A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may > be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ > > - > The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message