Here might be one explanation for the namesscroll down to Charlotte Gardner The interesting thing is Peter and Mary Ann and Peter seem to be in Rhode Island Peter Cunningham Age:1 Estimated birth year:abt 1860 Relation:Boarder Son (Boarder) Father's name:Peter Cunningham Mother's name:Mary Ann Cunningham Gender:Male Where born:Plymouth, Devon, England Civil Parish or Township:Abergavenny Town:Abergavenny County/Island:Monmouthshire Country:Wales Street address:View image Condition as to marriage:View image Education:View image Employment status:View image Occupation:View image Registration district:Abergavenny Sub-registration district:Abergavenny ED, institution, or vessel:3 Household schedule number:59 Neighbors:View others on page Piece:3993 Folio:44 Page Number:9 Household Members: NameAge Robert James40 Sarah James30 Henery James4 Robert James2 Peter Cunningham24 Mary Ann Cunningham20 William J Cunningham4 Peter Cunningham1 Charlotte Gardner54 Margaret Hodges49 SAVE Cancel Source Citation Class: RG9; Piece: 3993; Folio: 44; Page: 9; GSU roll: 543218 Source Information Ancestry.com. 1861 Wales Census [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations Inc, 2005. Original data: Census Returns of England and Wales, 1861. Kew, Surrey, England: The National Archives of the UK (TNA): Public Record Office (PRO), 1861 Peter Cunningham Birth Date:abt 1861 Birth Place:England Gender:Male Age:14 Marital Status:Single Relationship:Son (Child) Enumeration Year:1875 Township:Lincoln County:Providence Enumeration District or Census Tract:8 Line Number:14 Household number:38 Volume Number:10 Page Number:264 Household Members: NameAge Peter Cunningham37 ??/Shinner Mary Cunningham37 Weaver Peter Cunningham14 Weaver Mary Oates67 SAVE Source Information Ancestry.com. Rhode Island, State Censuses, 1865-1935 [database on-line]. Provo, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2013. Eliz Not Today and Not without a Fight (Anon) For all that has been, thanks. For all that will be, yes. (Dag Hammarskjold) On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 5:42 PM, Jeff Coleman <Jeff.Coleman@ntlworld.com> wrote: > No he wasn't! that was a different Peter Gardner, several years younger, > born in March quarter 1861. > > If it was the same one, why would he register most of his children as > CUNINGHAM or CUNNINGHAM? > > That one married in October 1881 in Plymouth I think, either to Tabitha > Piper or Jane Lane Walters > > If he was in Merthyr in 1881 with blind 'mother' Charlote Gardner, how come > he went back to Plymouth ? > > See my later emails on this subject. > > The key thing to do is to get a few birth certificates for the children, > both those registered as CUNNINGHAM and those registered as GARDNER, and > check whether the mother's maiden name shows up as Saunders ( or similar). > > Another thing to do is to check the US records of Sarah GARDNER born 1900 > and family stories to see whether they turn up Merthyr Vale and some of the > names of the large number of siblings. > > Jeff > > ----- Original Message ----- From: "Eliz Hanebury" <elizhgene@gmail.com> > To: "Jeff Coleman" <Jeff.Coleman@ntlworld.com> > Cc: "Dai & Angela Bevan" <daibevan@clara.co.uk>; "wesixski11" > <wesixski11@harbornet.com>; "GLAMORGAN@rootsweb" <glamorgan@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 9:26 PM > Subject: Re: [GLA] Peter Gardner > > >> Jeff he was with his parents in 1871, father Peter and mother >> Catherine also in 1861 >> Eliz >> Not Today and Not without a Fight >> (Anon) >> >> For all that has been, thanks. >> For all that will be, yes. >> (Dag Hammarskjold) >> >> >> On Sat, Jul 25, 2015 at 6:47 AM, Jeff Coleman <Jeff.Coleman@ntlworld.com> >> wrote: >>> >>> In 1911 census they appear as GARDNER at 18 Bryntaf, Aberfan, Merthyr >>> Vale >>> >>> Peter gave his age as 51, and he was a Coal Miner Hewer. There follows an >>> extra piece which has been crossed through "unable to work through ill >>> health over the years" >>> >>> Elizabeth gave her age as 50, born Swansea, an it is shown that they had >>> been married for 29 years and had had 14 children, of whom 12 were living >>> and two had died. Curiously, it is clear they had originally put down 15 >>> children, but this has been amended. >>> >>> 10 of the children were living with them, in a house shown as having '5 >>> rooms + 1 room used as small shop'. >>> Those at home were William 25, Thomas John 23, John 21, all shown as Coal >>> Miner Hewer, >>> Charlotte 20, Elizabeth 18, Francis 12, Sarah 11, Ellen 9, Margaret 7 and >>> Daniel 5. Francis and Sarah were shown as 'At school' but the words 'At >>> school' had been crossed out for the three youngest children. >>> >>> Presumably Lydia and Jane had died, married or moved away. >>> Lydia appears to have married, as Lydia Gardner, in December quarter 1904 >>> either to John O'Brien or William Henry Rees. See www.FreeBMD.org.uk for >>> details. As Lydia was one of the eldest, the name of her father shown on >>> her marriage certificate should be of interest. Judging by 1911 census, I >>> think she married John OBrien and by 1911 they had three children and >>> were >>> living in 18 Taff Street, Merthyr Vale.( a few doors form where she lived >>> in >>> 1901) She seems to have died in Merthyr Tydfil district in June quarter >>> 1953. >>> >>> The birth of Ellen seems to be June quarter 1902 as Gardner, and that of >>> Daniel in December quarter 1905 as Gardner. The death of Jane Gardner age >>> 12 >>> was registered in December quarter 1908, all in Merthyr Tydfil. >>> >>> The birth of Sarah Gardner Cunningham was registered March quarter 1900, >>> GRO >>> ref 11a 726. It would seem to be worth purchasing a birth certificate >>> from >>> GRO, using online ordering at >>> https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/default.asp >>> This will show the names of her father and mother (including any previous >>> surname of the mother) as advised to the registrar. >>> >>> If the person you are researching for is not aware of Welsh history, they >>> should do an online search for Aberfan. >>> >>> There were two marriages in Glamorgan around 1880-1883 of men called >>> CUNNINGHAM where women called Elizabeth appear on the same page, both in >>> Merthyr Tydfil district. Joseph in 1880 and John in 1882. >>> >>> I do not know whether the death of a John Cunningham age 55 in Cardiff >>> district in December quarter 1900 is relevant. >>> >>> Divorce was extremely expensive and difficult to obtain in late 19th >>> century >>> for ordinary people. A possibility is that Elizabeth was actually married >>> to >>> someone called Cunningham, but from some time in the 1880s started living >>> with Peter Gardner. Careful examination of the birth certificates may >>> show >>> light as to why the children were only registered as Gardner from 1902 >>> onwards. >>> >>> In 1881 Peter Gardner 21 b Plymouth was living in Merthyr with his mother >>> Charlote (shown as age 73) b Bristol, a widow. >>> >>> In 1891 census Mary Ann is shown as age 8 born Trealaw, which is in the >>> Rhondda, and would have been in Pontypridd registration district. She >>> does >>> not seem to have been registered either as Cunningham or Gardner. >>> >>> Finding Peter's birth registration, and his whereabouts in 1871, may be >>> of >>> interest. >>> >>> Jeff >>> >>> >>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dai & Angela Bevan via" >>> <glamorgan@rootsweb.com> >>> To: "Eliz Hanebury" <elizhgene@gmail.com>; "wesixski11" >>> <wesixski11@harbornet.com>; "GLAMORGAN@rootsweb" <glamorgan@rootsweb.com> >>> >>> Sent: Saturday, July 25, 2015 8:41 AM >>> Subject: Re: [GLA] Peter Gardner >>> >>> >>>> >>>> Elizabeth and Eliz, >>>> I could not find birth registrations for the Gardner children in >>>> Merthyr >>>> Tydfil, but they seem to correlate to births with the surname >>>> CUNNINGHAM >>>> Jun 1884 Cunningham Lydia Merthyr T. 1 11a 533 >>>> Dec 1885 Cunningham William Merthyr T. 1 11a >>>> 500 >>>> Sep 1887 Cunningham Thomas John Merthyr. T. 1 11a >>>> 532 >>>> Sep 1889 Cunningham John Merthyr T. 1 11a 543 >>>> Mar 1891 Cunningham Charlotte Merthyr T. 1 11a >>>> 642 >>>> then by 1901: >>>> Elizabeth Gardner8 >>>> Jane Gardner4 >>>> Francis Gardner2 >>>> Sarah Gardner1 >>>> Jun 1892 Cunningham Elizabeth Merthyr T. 11a 662 >>>> Dec 1896 Cunningham ***Jane Gardner*** Merthyr T. 11a >>>> 695 >>>> Jun 1898 Cunningham ***Francis Gardner *** Merthyr T. >>>> 11a 713 >>>> Mar 1900 Cunningham ***Sarah Gardner *** Merthyr T. 11a >>>> 726 >>>> I could find no marriage for Peter Gardner and Elizabeth Cunningham at >>>> any >>>> time. >>>> Dai Bevan >>>> -- >>>> >>>> To send to the list send to glamorgan@rootsweb.com >>>> GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at >>>> http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html >>>> - >>>> >>>> A web site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List >>>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ >>>> >>>> - >>>> A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may >>>> be >>>> found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ >>>> >>>> - >>>> The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages >>>> http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and >>>> http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>> GLAMORGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >>> >