I am sending this for Sean Duggan <seanduggan2@yahoo.com>, whose mails to the list are getting blocked because the automatic spam-protector dnsbl.sorbs.net used by Rootsweb is blocking mails that come from particular Yahoo.com servers. If you send mail to the list that is bounced back with some sort of explanation involving dnsbl.sorbs.net you should contact your ISP and ask them to sort it out. Jeff list admin Dear Nancy I think it very likely that your ancestor is, as John Tyner suggested on March 19, the James Clifford shown in the 1851 census living in Cae Harris, Dowlais. Cae Harris was about half a mile from Lower High Street where your ancestor James Clifford is known to have been living in 1861. And you know he was married in Dowlais less than a year after the 1851 census. The full 1851 reference is: RG number: HO107; piece 2459; folio 64; page 16. The Enumeration District is 1c; the registration district is Merthyr Tydfil; the sub-district is Merthyr Tydfil Upper. I will send you full details off-list. James is a lodger; single; aged 32; a labourer; born in Cahir, Tipperary. Find My Past has mistranscribed the birthplaces of at least four Tipperary-born lodgers in this household giving "Cloghran, Tipperary" for each of them. The image - available also on Ancestry - shows Clogheen for one, Cahir for the second, Cahir by ditto for the third (James Clifford), and possibly CaeHir, perhaps meaning Cahir, for the fifth. Cahir is a small town in the South Riding of Tipperary. It now has fewer than 4,000 people. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahir I'm afraid that marriage certificates from England and Wales do not show birthplaces. And no records were kept of passengers travelling from Ireland to Wales. But you are lucky already to have a fairly precise birthplace from a census. Soon, from the Welsh marriage certificate that you have applied for, you will have the names of the bride's and groom's fathers. The next step will be to check Catholic baptism registers in Ireland. There are as yet no comprehensive listings online but a pay-per-view site http://www.rootsireland.ie/ does claim to have all available records for many counties including Tipperary. It has a free index. There are 15 Clifford Baptisms (Catholic and Protestant) in the South Riding of Tipperary, which includes Cahir, in the period 1812-1826. You can limit your search by parish. Four of those 15 were baptized in the Catholic ("RC") parish of Cahir. You can also limit by child's and by father's first names. Eventually you will have to pay for whatever details are in the record. When searching, allow for two peculiarities: (1) first names may be in English, Latin, or abbreviated forms of either; (2) an Irishman was often known by his father's name rather than his own baptismal name. So your "James" may have been baptized eg Jacobus or Jac (Latin, abbreviated or not). Or he may have been given a completely different baptismal name but ever after known as James because that was his father's name. Remember too that he may have been baptized in a nearby parish and not in Cahir itself even if he was born there. Best wishes, Sean On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Nancy Rogers <rogers1n@comcast.net> wrote: > I'm trying so hard to find out where in Ireland my g-grandparents lived > before they arrived in Wales. > > Is there a list of ship's arrivals from Ireland to Wales? I haven't found > anything like that online. > > James Clifford and his wife Mary Ellen (Corbitt or Corbett) were married in > Methryr Tydfil in 1855. I have sent for their marriage certificate and am > waiting to receive it. In hopes that it lists where they came from. > > Now I'm wondering if there is an immigration record or ship's record that > shows them arriving in Wales from Ireland. > > Any ideas? > > Nancy Clifford R.

Hope Sean Duggan gets this. Hi Sean and All, Today I received the marriage certificate from GRO Wales. James Clifford 30 years old and Mary Corbitt 26 years old were married in 1852. It listed his age as 30 at the time of the marriage in 1852. His father's name is Patrick Clifford. I have already gotten 2 Baptism certificates from from rootsireland . The First: And the one I thought was correct originally had the father as Edmund and had the DO Bap as 21 Feb 1826. This James Clifford was Baptized In the church of Ireland at St. Mary's in Clonmel which is in Tipperary. If he was Baptized right after birth as was the custom, he would have been age 26 at the time of the marriage. The cert. of marriage lists him as 30 at the time of marriage. So there is an age discrepancy. The Second: No church name is given. Parish/District is NEWPORT Tipperary- Address is Killeen. Father's name is Patrick Clifford Date of Baptism 26May1828. That makes his age 24 at time of marriage. A discrepancy since his age is 30 on the marriage cert. but the father's name is the same as on the marriage certificate. James the lodger listed in the census in Cae Harris in the 1851 census and from Cahir Tipperary,was listed as being 32 that year and if he married the following year, would have been 33 on the marriage certificate. It really makes sense to me that James the lodger is the same as James my great-grandfather, but what do you think of all the age discrepancies?? In the 1870 US census, "my" James Clifford's (Boston, Suffolk, Massachusetts) birth date was listed as about 1822 which would have made him 30 years old at the time he married. His death certificate has his estimated birth date as 1832,and his father's name as Patrick. I don't know if I've found my James! Sean, what do you think? I guess he's from Tipperay, but I don't know if I have the right one. Nancy -----Original Message----- From: glamorgan-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:glamorgan-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Jeff Coleman Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 4:45 PM To: glamorgan@rootsweb.com Subject: [GLA] Clifford Family I am sending this for Sean Duggan <seanduggan2@yahoo.com>, whose mails to the list are getting blocked because the automatic spam-protector dnsbl.sorbs.net used by Rootsweb is blocking mails that come from particular Yahoo.com servers. If you send mail to the list that is bounced back with some sort of explanation involving dnsbl.sorbs.net you should contact your ISP and ask them to sort it out. Jeff list admin Dear Nancy I think it very likely that your ancestor is, as John Tyner suggested on March 19, the James Clifford shown in the 1851 census living in Cae Harris, Dowlais. Cae Harris was about half a mile from Lower High Street where your ancestor James Clifford is known to have been living in 1861. And you know he was married in Dowlais less than a year after the 1851 census. The full 1851 reference is: RG number: HO107; piece 2459; folio 64; page 16. The Enumeration District is 1c; the registration district is Merthyr Tydfil; the sub-district is Merthyr Tydfil Upper. I will send you full details off-list. James is a lodger; single; aged 32; a labourer; born in Cahir, Tipperary. Find My Past has mistranscribed the birthplaces of at least four Tipperary-born lodgers in this household giving "Cloghran, Tipperary" for each of them. The image - available also on Ancestry - shows Clogheen for one, Cahir for the second, Cahir by ditto for the third (James Clifford), and possibly CaeHir, perhaps meaning Cahir, for the fifth. Cahir is a small town in the South Riding of Tipperary. It now has fewer than 4,000 people. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cahir I'm afraid that marriage certificates from England and Wales do not show birthplaces. And no records were kept of passengers travelling from Ireland to Wales. But you are lucky already to have a fairly precise birthplace from a census. Soon, from the Welsh marriage certificate that you have applied for, you will have the names of the bride's and groom's fathers. The next step will be to check Catholic baptism registers in Ireland. There are as yet no comprehensive listings online but a pay-per-view site http://www.rootsireland.ie/ does claim to have all available records for many counties including Tipperary. It has a free index. There are 15 Clifford Baptisms (Catholic and Protestant) in the South Riding of Tipperary, which includes Cahir, in the period 1812-1826. You can limit your search by parish. Four of those 15 were baptized in the Catholic ("RC") parish of Cahir. You can also limit by child's and by father's first names. Eventually you will have to pay for whatever details are in the record. When searching, allow for two peculiarities: (1) first names may be in English, Latin, or abbreviated forms of either; (2) an Irishman was often known by his father's name rather than his own baptismal name. So your "James" may have been baptized eg Jacobus or Jac (Latin, abbreviated or not). Or he may have been given a completely different baptismal name but ever after known as James because that was his father's name. Remember too that he may have been baptized in a nearby parish and not in Cahir itself even if he was born there. Best wishes, Sean On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 8:03 PM, Nancy Rogers <rogers1n@comcast.net> wrote: > I'm trying so hard to find out where in Ireland my g-grandparents > lived before they arrived in Wales. > > Is there a list of ship's arrivals from Ireland to Wales? I haven't > found anything like that online. > > James Clifford and his wife Mary Ellen (Corbitt or Corbett) were > married in Methryr Tydfil in 1855. I have sent for their marriage > certificate and am waiting to receive it. In hopes that it lists where they came from. > > Now I'm wondering if there is an immigration record or ship's record > that shows them arriving in Wales from Ireland. > > Any ideas? > > Nancy Clifford R. -- To send to the list send to glamorgan@rootsweb.com GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://home.clara.net/tirbach/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GLAMORGAN-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message