The index to the subject book, which Gareth put up on GenUKI in 2002, indicates that there are some references to people who are of great interest to me (i.e. ancestors of mine). If anyone has a copy of this book and is prepared to do a couple of specific look-ups for me (thanks to Gareth I have the page numbers!) I would very much appreciate it if you could contact me off-List. Best regards Ron

Hello All, I know that there are quite a lot of Listers who have close connections to the POWELL families appearing in my database, and even more who have links to the many other farming families in the Neath-Margam-Bridgend-Vale of Glamorgan areas with whom these POWELLs intermarried over the generations. So as a good deal of very successful recent research has allowed me to make significant additions to the database recently, I thought it would be a good idea to summarize them to the List. Those wanting more details can then extract them from my website, using links I shall provide below. Those with no interest in the POWELLs should probably aim to escape here, as this could end up being a long post! Until quite recently, the earliest generation of our main POWELL line that we had been able to fix with certainty was that of Rees POWELL b.1729 Llantwit-juxta-Neath, who married Elizabeth JOHN, daughter of Robert JOHN of Court Ucha, Margam. Rees, who farmed Blaen Baglan in Baglan was my 4xg grandfather and the 4xg or 5xg grandfather of a number of other Listers. We knew that his father was William POWELL, of Llantwit-juxta-Neath, who died in 1753, but we knew very little more; we had made various attempts to discover William's parents, without success; we didn't even know much about Rees' siblings. That was until about a month ago, when Beth Edwards - another of said Rees POWELL's descendants - and Steve Davies started to focus on the family. They were able to establish that Rees' father William POWELL married twice and that his eldest daughter, Mary POWELL from his first marriage, had married Rees TREHARNE of Llangynwyd, and was thus Steve's 6xg grandmother. So we can add the Llangynwyd TREHARNE and DAVID farming families to those with whom our POWELLs intermarried. Beth and Steve were also able to add a good deal more on Mary and Rees' sister Catherine POWELL. But then the big breakthrough came - the discovery of the Will of William POWELL's father - he turned out to be William HOWELL (not POWELL!) d.1694 Cadoxton-juxta-Neath, son of Howell ap HOWELL of Cadoxton. Finally, we had reached the point at which POWELL had emerged from ap HOWELL. There was no doubting the evidence - a wonderfully helpful Will, spelling out his father's name as Howell ap HOWELL and his 'only sons' names as William POWELL and Rees POWELL. Armed with this precious information, Beth moved up a gear and her intuition and perseverance over the last couple of weeks have resulted in numerous other Wills, leases and other old documents being located - for the most part on the NLW website - and these have enabled us to identify the ten children for Howell ap HOWELL and his wife Marie, his parents Howell LEISON and Tanglust HOPKIN, their nine other children and a number of marriages and descendants for several of them. We were able to locate Howell ap HOWELL's burial in 1658 in the Neath Valley Lay Registers (there were officially no parish registers during the Commonwealth of Oliver Cromwell - these lay registers were kept by the government-appointed registrar Morgan EVAN, and found and transcribed by the GFHS!). Before this, in the absence of parish records, we have few precise dates of birth, marriage and death of course, the Wills and Probate records tending to give us dates of death, but all other dates have to be estimates. But we estimate that the date of birth of Howell LEISON (the 8xg, 9xg or 10xg grandfather of various Listers) to be between 1570 and 1575 - less than half-way through the reign of Elizabeth l !! Although Steve and I would proudly admit to having made a contribution to this remarkable progress the gold medal must go to Beth and I should like to publically acknowledge her here and to thank her on behalf of all of us for whom these are common ancestors (that number is getting bigger all the time of course!). Those who would like more details can find them on my website; perhaps the best starting point is the Family Group Information page for Howell ap HOWELL and family: http://www.clan-davies.org/webtrees/family.php?famid=F3857 At risk of outstaying my welcome here, I feel I should also mention the other POWELL line on my database, the one descending from Jenkin POWELL (1769-1846) and Margary MADDOCK (1776-1860). Again, there are a number of Listers who have connections to this family, which intermarried several times with our principle POWELL line covered above, but which I have not yet succeeded in connecting by bloodline. Thanks to some excellent sleuthing by Stessy Haberfield recently, we can now take this line back a further generation to the POWELL family of Glyncorrwg (which we know had connections with the HOWELLs of Llantwit-juxa-Neath, so we are getting closer to making that connection. See: http://www.clan-davies.org/webtrees/individual.php?pid=I452 A final point - and another breakthrough by Stessy Haberfield - relates to another prominent farming family with whom our POWELLs - and many other families farming between Neath and Cardiff - intermarried - the family of Thomas JONES (1772-1852) of Ballas Farm, Pyle. We knew he was born in Ewenny, but have never succeeded in identifying his parents or siblings. That was until Stessy got her teeth into the problem a month or two back. Thanks to her efforts we now know that Thomas JONES was the brother of Anne JONES (1775-1828) who married Edward LOVELUCK (1774-1832) - again, there are many Listers with connections to this family. See: http://www.clan-davies.org/webtrees/individual.php?pid=I180 The Spring has been a long time coming (in Europe at least) this year, but clearly the bad weather has kept us in and produced results!. Many thanks again to all concerned. Best regards Ron

I have inherited my mother's olive skin, brown eyes and dark hair - and wherever I go I am assumed to be Spanish or Italian. I think I look typically South Welsh and whenever I return to Swansea I see lots of people with my colouring. However, my husband, who is half Italian (I look more Italian than he does!), recently visited Chile and said that nearly all the women out there looked like me. I discovered that Santiago in Chile was known as "Swansea's graveyard" because of the number of mariners who died there during the copper trade. So maybe there is a South American connection after all? Jenny Sent from my iPad

Hi Yvonne Was interested to read your g.g.g.grandfather was James JAMES did he migrate to South Australia in 1857. Am always hopeful so thought I would ask. Gosh how do all you lovely people know so much about so much. I learn so much from you all. Thanks Jill (Aust) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ANNE EVANS Sent: Friday, 17 May 2013 1:42 AM To: Eliz Hanebury Cc: [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLA] Spanish and Italians at Merthyr tydfil Hi Eliz and List,   I find your discovery of Jameses born in Italy amazing!  Would Edward have been born on a ship berthed in a port in Italy?  Funnily enough my g.g.g. grandfather was a James James  but he was a Pembrokeshire(Little Newcastle) man. Of course any likely boyfriend/partner to my g.g. grandmother Lettice could have come into Merthyr area after 1851.(from Spain or Italy)   I have based this tale on my grandfather's story of an Italian or Spaniard in the family tree. I do know that family tales can be very misleading. I would also like to thank Roy for his interesting reply to me.  I wonder how many men from Spain or Italy actually came to Merthyr?   Thank you both very much Yvonne       ________________________________ From: Eliz Hanebury <[email protected]> To: ANNE EVANS <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 16 May 2013, 18:26 Subject: Re: [GLA] Spanish and Italians at Merthyr tydfil I figured why not check the 1851 for People born in Italy 1800 to 1840. To my stunned surprise only two showed up and both were names James (surname) I started my search with Edw* James (my 3Xggfather) just to get to the census so the results were literally stunning <G> Name:     Edward James Age:     22 Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1829 Relation:     Lodger Gender:     Male Where born:     Italy Civil Parish or Township:     Merthyr Tydfil Town:     Merthyr Tydfil County/Island:     Glamorgan Country:     Wales Registration District:     Merthyr Tydfil Sub-registration District:     Lower Merthyr Tydfil ED, institution, or vessel:     12 Piece:     2458 Folio:     341 Page Number:     16 Household Schedule Number:     66 Household Members: Name     Age David Davies     49 Mary Davies     56 John Wright     63 Caroline Davies     13 Edward James     22 James James     20   Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2458; Folio: 341; Page: 16; GSU roll: 104200-104201. Eliz Not Today and Not without a Fight (Anon) For all that has been, thanks. For all that will be, yes.     (Dag Hammarskjold) On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 7:41 AM, ANNE EVANS <[email protected]> wrote: Hello list, >  >  >I am wondering if anyone can help.   I have an illegitimate g. grandmother who was born at  Aberdare to a Lettice Peregrine in 1854. Lettice was a native of Llandysilio Pembrokeshire. My g.grandmother's name was Anne Peregrine.    Lettice placed her with her own parents at Llanycefn Pembrokeshire, and Lettice stayed in Glamorgan(Dowlais) . My grandfather( The above Anne's son) used to tell me there were Spanish or Italians  in the family tree. I am therefore wondering if Anne Peregrine g. grandmother was a blood daughter to someone Spanish or Italian who had come to Merthyr to work and had met up with Lettice Peregrine. Would men from either of those countries  have come into Merthyer between 1851 and 1854?   If they were not there dring those years, my question is irrelevant. >I cannot find any trace of the putative father's name on birth or wedding certificates, as I have looked. >  >Many thanks >Yvonne Evans >-- > >To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family >History Mailing List archives etc. are at >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html >- >This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ >- >A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may >be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ > >- >The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and >http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. 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For what it is worth . Many years ago my cousin was offered an' origins reading ' as she had been a blood doner for many years.Our family pretty well rooted in welsh and earlier scottish stock were fair to red haired and pale complexioned. Cousin much more latin looking. her reading showed early "indo european elements"--- Greetings from Sue in LLantrisant, still lurking but lacking with own F/H work

We learn from the more experienced listers! <G> That is sure what and who have helped me the most. They are what makes these lists so valuable. Eliz Not Today and Not without a Fight (Anon) For all that has been, thanks. For all that will be, yes. (Dag Hammarskjold) On Sat, May 18, 2013 at 3:45 AM, JS <[email protected]> wrote: > Hi Yvonne > Was interested to read your g.g.g.grandfather was James JAMES did he > migrate > to South Australia in 1857. Am always hopeful so thought I would ask. Gosh > how do all you lovely people know so much about so much. I learn so much > from you all. > Thanks Jill (Aust) > > > > > > > ________________________________ > From: Eliz Hanebury <[email protected]> > To: ANNE EVANS <[email protected]> > Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, 16 May 2013, 18:26 > Subject: Re: [GLA] Spanish and Italians at Merthyr tydfil > > > > I figured why not check the 1851 for People born in Italy 1800 to 1840. To > my stunned surprise only two showed up and both were names James (surname) > I > started my search with Edw* James (my 3Xggfather) just to get to the census > so the results were literally stunning <G> > Name: Edward James > Age: 22 > Estimated Birth Year: abt 1829 > Relation: Lodger > Gender: Male > Where born: Italy > Civil Parish or Township: Merthyr Tydfil > Town: Merthyr Tydfil > County/Island: Glamorgan > Country: Wales > Registration District: Merthyr Tydfil Sub-registration District: > Lower Merthyr Tydfil ED, institution, or vessel: 12 > Piece: 2458 > Folio: 341 > Page Number: 16 > Household Schedule Number: 66 > Household Members: > Name Age > David Davies 49 > Mary Davies 56 > John Wright 63 > Caroline Davies 13 > Edward James 22 > James James 20 > > Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2458; Folio: 341; Page: 16; GSU roll: > 104200-104201. > > > > Eliz > Not Today and Not without a Fight > (Anon) > > For all that has been, thanks. > For all that will be, yes. > (Dag Hammarskjold) > > > > >

Richard ELLIS born about 1781 married Ann JOHN probably around 1800, looking for the parents of Richard and Ann.   This family lived in St Nicolas Village, here they are in the 1841 census ~ 1841 Census Wales: Piece: 1417 Book/Folio: 21/7 Page: 9      Registration District: Cardiff Civil Parish: St Nicholas Municipal Borough: Address: Village, St Nicholas County: Glamorganshire ELLIS, Richd M 60 1781  Glamorgan  ELLIS, Ann F 60 1781  Glamorgan    ELLIS, William M 38 1803  Glamorgan    ELLIS, James M 20 1821  Glamorgan    ELLIS, Edward M 16 1825  Glamorgan ELLIS, Mary F 6 1835  Glamorgan   Other children include; John  ELLIS born 1817 who married 1840 Caroline WILLIAMS daughter of Christopher WILLIAMS and Margaret JENKINS. John and Caroline went to New Zealand in 1848 and settled at Collingwood, Nelson.   Ann ELLIS born abt 1805-08 married 1840 William EDMUNDS  they had a son named Richard EDMUNDS born abt1849 who went to the US in 1871 and settled in Ohio.   Further information on any of these people appreciated; Janice

Dear fellow strugglers, searching the family beyond the 1837/41 wall, becomes difficult when looking for a name such as Hopkins. Anne Hopkins, b. Llantwit Major, married James How(e). Her father was Thomas Hopkin, b. 1790, who I believe was married to Mary Thomas. Both parents had died by the time of the 1841 census, Anne is described as Orphan living with Mary Thomas (70) pauper. Thomas was described as Miller on Anne's baptism record. This is where I am having difficulty. Any suggestions will be gratefully received. Geoff Semmens

I was recently reading an article about the Silures - the ancient Celtic Tribe that occupied what is now Glamorgan, Gwent, Breconshire, Gloucestershire and Herefordshire.   The Romans described them as dark skinned with black curly hair. Considering the Romans were swarthy Italian origin, describing another tribe as dark skinned would show they were quite dark. The Romans believed this to be because the Silures were probably descended from the Iberian Celtic Tribes. ________________________________ From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, 18 May 2013, 8:34 Subject: [GLA] WELSH COMPLEXIONS Just a note to add to the current discussions.  Some Welsh people are  very dark indeed, my father and sisters among them.  This comes from Dad's  mother, who married a very blond Somerset man, and her large family had  colourings ranging from white blond, sandy, brown to the very dark hair and skin  like Dad, enhanced by a lifetime working outdoors.  It would have been  great to find something exotic in Gran's ancestry, but no luck so far, Glamorgan  Welsh through and through! Wendy. -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.htmland http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just a note to add to the current discussions. Some Welsh people are very dark indeed, my father and sisters among them. This comes from Dad's mother, who married a very blond Somerset man, and her large family had colourings ranging from white blond, sandy, brown to the very dark hair and skin like Dad, enhanced by a lifetime working outdoors. It would have been great to find something exotic in Gran's ancestry, but no luck so far, Glamorgan Welsh through and through! Wendy.

Let's broaden the possibilities. I know of little evidence of Spanish or Italians at Merthyr as early as 1850s http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vale_of_Neath_Railway shows that the Vale of Neath Railway connected Neath with Aberdare and Merthyr by 1853. Neath and Swansea were on the GWR main line from 1850 I seem to recall. Shipping arrivals in Swansea from northern France - particularly Nantes in early 1850s with wheat and oats and from Spain with copper ore were fairly frequent, as were ships from Cuba and Chile with copper ore(though those were very largely British ships with British crews). There were a huge number of pubs along the Strand and elsewhere in the town of Swansea, and they and other establishments thrived on entertaining newly-paid mariners just back from the sea. I can't remember whether there was evidence where Lettice was in 1851. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANNE EVANS" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, May 17, 2013 10:45 AM Subject: [GLA] spanish and Italians at merthyr Hi List, Many thanks for all your replies concerning Italian and Spanish immigrants to Merthyr(slight possibility one of whom was my g.g. grandfather!) To save headaches in general re this, can you tell me where I could obtain records of any court cases where Lettice could have sued the father of her child Anne for money for upkeep of Anne? Anne was born Aberdare but the father could have been Merthyr as Lettice had relatives she could go to at Aberdare for the birth of baby. The year would have been 1854. - child Anne Peregrine and mother Lettice Peregrine. I am still involved in tracing who the Peregrines were who settled in North Pembrokeshire about 1700's - that is another story!!! My father was a very dark man as was my uncle his brother. However that colouring could have come from other ancestors. Many thanks for all your interest Yvonne

You would need to contact the Glamorgan Archives as Bastardy Papers* could be within either the Quarter Sessions or Petty Sessions records, it depends on how they were filed. I have found some in Somerset when I hunted for the father and I did find him. * BASTARDY PAPERS record the efforts the Overseers made in ensuring fathers of illegitimate children paid for the upkeep of the child. It will record name of mother, the child, usually described as male or female, and not necessarily by name and the putative father. Occupation sometimes given of the father and place of abode. Also may name those who stood surety. My best wishes, Jill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of ANNE EVANS Sent: 17 May 2013 10:45 To: [email protected] Subject: [GLA] spanish and Italians at merthyr Hi List, Many thanks for all your replies concerning Italian and Spanish immigrants to Merthyr(slight possibility one of whom was my g.g. grandfather!) To save headaches in general re this, can you tell me where I could obtain records of any court cases where Lettice could have sued the father of her child Anne for money for upkeep of Anne? Anne was born Aberdare but the father could have been Merthyr as Lettice had relatives she could go to at Aberdare for the birth of baby. The year would have been 1854. - child Anne Peregrine and mother Lettice Peregrine.  I am still involved in  tracing who the Peregrines were who settled in North Pembrokeshire about 1700's   - that is another story!!! My father was a very dark man as was my uncle his brother. However that colouring could have come from other ancestors.       Many thanks for all your interest   Yvonne --

Sueing the father for support was known as affiliation (or sometimes filiation). In order to secure an allowance mothers had to provide some corroboration that the man was indeed the father, which often led to details of the affair being aired in court. Many mothers didn't pursue this course, either because they would have found it difficult to produce evidence, or because they couldn't afford the court fees - about a third of all mothers of illegitimate chidren were succesful in obtaining an allowance in this way. Newspapers tended to report the bare details of the cases; it was in a later era that they took an interest in the more lurid details of the relationships. You could try the National Library of Wales' online archive of Welsh Newspapers at http://papuraunewyddcymru.llgc.org.uk/en/home? I think that the local courts administration was supposed to send annual lists of these cases to the government - I have come across the odd list in local archives. In Glamorgan Archives there is a book listing Cardiff affiliation cases from 1852, but I'm not sure about Merthyr. Have you considered the possibility that the father might have been an entertainer of some sort just passing through? Again newpapers might give a clue. Anna Brueton At 10:45 17/05/2013, ANNE EVANS wrote: >Hi List, >Many thanks for all your replies concerning Italian and Spanish >immigrants to Merthyr(slight possibility one of whom was my g.g. >grandfather!) To save headaches in general re this, can you tell me >where I could obtain records of any court cases where Lettice could >have sued the father of her child Anne for money for upkeep of Anne? >Anne was born Aberdare but the father could have been Merthyr as >Lettice had relatives she could go to at Aberdare for the birth of >baby. The year would have been 1854. - child Anne Peregrine and >mother Lettice Peregrine. I am still involved in tracing who the >Peregrines were who settled in North Pembrokeshire about 1700's - >that is another story!!! >My father was a very dark man as was my uncle his brother. However >that colouring could have come from other ancestors. > > > >Many thanks for all your interest > >Yvonne >-- > >To send to the list send to [email protected] >GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html >- >This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ >- >A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, >may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ > >- >The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and >http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, Many thanks for all your replies concerning Italian and Spanish immigrants to Merthyr(slight possibility one of whom was my g.g. grandfather!) To save headaches in general re this, can you tell me where I could obtain records of any court cases where Lettice could have sued the father of her child Anne for money for upkeep of Anne? Anne was born Aberdare but the father could have been Merthyr as Lettice had relatives she could go to at Aberdare for the birth of baby. The year would have been 1854. - child Anne Peregrine and mother Lettice Peregrine.  I am still involved in  tracing who the Peregrines were who settled in North Pembrokeshire about 1700's   - that is another story!!! My father was a very dark man as was my uncle his brother. However that colouring could have come from other ancestors.       Many thanks for all your interest   Yvonne

Hi Anne, Just a thought.. Has there been any evidence of the olive skin in your family? I am a daughter of Irish and Welsh parents and I married an Australian born Maltese. Needless to say, out of my 5 children, the eldest daughter and 2nd son have the light olive skin with youngest daughter having a little touch of it, and 3 of my 6 grandsons have it also. Now my great grandson, son of the eldest grandson, also has light olive skin like his father. Looks like husbands skin type is coming through our family...what about yours? My skin is the fair Irish skin and I have all the problems from living in the Tropics and not wearing sunscreen! Kind regards, Mary ----- Original Message ----- From: "ANNE EVANS" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, May 16, 2013 9:41 PM Subject: [GLA] Spanish and Italians at Merthyr tydfil Hello list, I am wondering if anyone can help. I have an illegitimate g. grandmother who was born at Aberdare to a Lettice Peregrine in 1854. Lettice was a native of Llandysilio Pembrokeshire. My g.grandmother's name was Anne Peregrine. Lettice placed her with her own parents at Llanycefn Pembrokeshire, and Lettice stayed in Glamorgan(Dowlais) . My grandfather( The above Anne's son) used to tell me there were Spanish or Italians in the family tree. I am therefore wondering if Anne Peregrine g. grandmother was a blood daughter to someone Spanish or Italian who had come to Merthyr to work and had met up with Lettice Peregrine. Would men from either of those countries have come into Merthyer between 1851 and 1854? If they were not there dring those years, my question is irrelevant. I cannot find any trace of the putative father's name on birth or wedding certificates, as I have looked. Many thanks Yvonne Evans -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Further in regard to other Merthyr people such as Irish Catholics, Italians and Spaniards, the attendance numbers at the Catholic church shows a high proportion in Merthyr In 1838 recorded are 940 Catholics in Merthyr, 900 in Cardiff and 3005 in Wales as a whole. In the years 1836 to 1841 273 infant baptisms were carried out in the Catholic Church in Merthyr Tydfil. Source: 'Merthyr Tydfil a Valley Community' - Merthyr Teachers Centre Group. My best wishes, Jill Photographs of Welsh Chapels and Churches http://www.welshchapelsandchurches.org/

Hi I had a friend whose husband was of mixed race his mother was coloured and when my friend who was very blonde was having her children who also were very fair skinned like her, was told that the grandmothers colour might turn up in future generations with no apparent reason to make sure that her children knew to pass this info on . The doctor told her this Althea

>I am therefore wondering if Anne Peregrine g. grandmother was a blood daughter to someone Spanish or Italian who had come to Merthyr to work and had met up with Lettice Peregrine. Would men from either of those countries have come into Merthyr between 1851 and 1854?   If they were not there during those years, my question is irrelevant. Hello Ann, I grew up in Merthyr Tydfil which was quite a cosmopolitan town. There were plenty of Chinese [there had once been a China Town], and my school friends consisted not only of my Welsh counterparts but of Irish, Jew and Italian extraction. I still have a photo of my friend surnamed Barsi. The Bracchi family were famous in South Wales with their ice cream and cafes. http://www.welshitalians.com/ Names like Berni [they had a cafe in Merthyr] and many others are famous not only in Wales. http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/ItaliansOfMerthyrTydfil.htm The first Spanish name appeared August 30th 1840 in the Catholic Parish Register. Historical Photographs of Penywern, Merthyr Tydfil. ... Iron Ore from Spain. It was named after Alfonso XIII of Spain and was locally known as "Spaniards Row". http://www.alangeorge.co.uk/penywern.htm People had come from all over the world to find employment at Dowlais and Cyfarthfa. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyfarthfa_Ironworks and en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dowlais_Ironworks‎ Last but not least is the Facebook page for Old Merthyr Tydfil. https://www.facebook.com/OldMerthyrTydfil HTH My best wishes, Jill Glamorgan Mailing List's website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/

Photos of: St Cadoc's Church, Penrhos, MON; Nantyffin Chapel, Penycae, BRE; Pen-yr-heol Chapel, Tregoyd, BRE Dear Listers, The latest subjects to be added to my 'Welsh Churches and Chapels Collection' are: 1. St Cadoc's Church, Penrhos, Monmouthshire (photography by Steve Veysey) 2. Nantyffin Chapel, Penycae, Breconshire (photography by John Ball) 3. Pen-yr-heol Chapel, Tregoyd, Breconshire (photography by John Ball) Go to www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/churches/search-fram.htm and scroll down the index to the Penrhos, Penycae and Tregoyd links. Kind regards, John -------------------- John Ball, Brecon, Mid-Wales, UK E-mail: [email protected] Website: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/ Images of Wales: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/walespic/ Welsh Family History Archive: http://www.jlb2011.co.uk/wales/ GENUKI Breconshire Maintainer: http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/BRE/ Administrator - Powys (& BRE/MGY/RAD) RootsWeb mailing lists Joint Webmaster - Breconshire Local & Family History Society: www.blfhs.co.uk/

Hi Eliz and List,   I find your discovery of Jameses born in Italy amazing!  Would Edward have been born on a ship berthed in a port in Italy?  Funnily enough my g.g.g. grandfather was a James James  but he was a Pembrokeshire(Little Newcastle) man. Of course any likely boyfriend/partner to my g.g. grandmother Lettice could have come into Merthyr area after 1851.(from Spain or Italy)   I have based this tale on my grandfather's story of an Italian or Spaniard in the family tree. I do know that family tales can be very misleading. I would also like to thank Roy for his interesting reply to me.  I wonder how many men from Spain or Italy actually came to Merthyr?   Thank you both very much Yvonne       ________________________________ From: Eliz Hanebury <[email protected]> To: ANNE EVANS <[email protected]> Cc: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, 16 May 2013, 18:26 Subject: Re: [GLA] Spanish and Italians at Merthyr tydfil I figured why not check the 1851 for People born in Italy 1800 to 1840. To my stunned surprise only two showed up and both were names James (surname) I started my search with Edw* James (my 3Xggfather) just to get to the census so the results were literally stunning <G> Name:     Edward James Age:     22 Estimated Birth Year:     abt 1829 Relation:     Lodger Gender:     Male Where born:     Italy Civil Parish or Township:     Merthyr Tydfil Town:     Merthyr Tydfil County/Island:     Glamorgan Country:     Wales Registration District:     Merthyr Tydfil Sub-registration District:     Lower Merthyr Tydfil ED, institution, or vessel:     12 Piece:     2458 Folio:     341 Page Number:     16 Household Schedule Number:     66 Household Members:     Name     Age David Davies     49 Mary Davies     56 John Wright     63 Caroline Davies     13 Edward James     22 James James     20   Source Citation: Class: HO107; Piece: 2458; Folio: 341; Page: 16; GSU roll: 104200-104201. Eliz Not Today and Not without a Fight (Anon) For all that has been, thanks. For all that will be, yes.     (Dag Hammarskjold) On Thu, May 16, 2013 at 7:41 AM, ANNE EVANS <[email protected]> wrote: Hello list, >  >  >I am wondering if anyone can help.   I have an illegitimate g. grandmother who was born at  Aberdare to a Lettice Peregrine in 1854. Lettice was a native of Llandysilio Pembrokeshire. My g.grandmother's name was Anne Peregrine.    Lettice placed her with her own parents at Llanycefn Pembrokeshire, and Lettice stayed in Glamorgan(Dowlais) . My grandfather( The above Anne's son) used to tell me there were Spanish or Italians  in the family tree. I am therefore wondering if Anne Peregrine g. grandmother was a blood daughter to someone Spanish or Italian who had come to Merthyr to work and had met up with Lettice Peregrine. Would men from either of those countries  have come into Merthyer between 1851 and 1854?   If they were not there dring those years, my question is irrelevant. >I cannot find any trace of the putative father's name on birth or wedding certificates, as I have looked. >  >Many thanks >Yvonne Evans >-- > >To send to the list send to [email protected] >GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at >http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html >- >This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ >- >A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ > >- >The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages >http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and >http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >