The birth information that I've seen so far with regard to Welsh ancestors includes only baptismal/christening records from the parishes. Since older people can be listed in the baptism records, how would I know when a person was actually born--if it's not written already in some family journal or history record? The people I'm looking at do not appear to be the gentry, but rather the working class. Thanks for your help. JoLynn Barneck

Dear Veneita You asked the same question in February 2011 - what exactly are you are trying to find out? If you're looking for someone approaching the same family from the opposite direction then using one of the 'hint' utilities that links directly to your genealogy software might be useful Robert -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [GLA] SMITH Hi I have just joined the list again I am looking for some information on the Smith family. Who lived in Llanbradach around 1912 they had a daughter Louise Smith and a boarder George Stevens. I found this on the 1911 census. I was hopping someone could be researching the Smith family

-------- Original Message -------- Subject: [GLA] Fwd: SMITH Date: 01.09.2013 18:02 From: neita41 <[email protected]> To: glamorgan wales <[email protected]> -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [GLA] SMITH Date: 23.08.2013 17:15 From: neita41 <[email protected]> To: glamorgan wales <[email protected]> Hi I have just joined the list again I am looking for some information on the Smith family. Who lived in Llanbradach around 1912 they had a daughter Louise Smith and a boarder George Stevens. I found this on the 1911 census. I was hopping someone could be researching the Smith family Regards Veneita -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Rosemary, will the same URL apply when the 'new' website is uploaded for us all to use? Nice to know that those of us who have links to the site, will or won't have to change the link. Jill -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Rosemary Smith Sent: 06 September 2013 16:08 To: Gareth Hicks; Glamorgan List Subject: Re: [GLA] Glamorgan FHS Glamorgan FHS website is up an running again today. Let's hope it stays that way! Rosemary Smith -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thanks Rosemary - I can confirm that the 82 links from the various Genuki pages are working again! Gareth Hicks Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html -----Original Message----- From: Rosemary Smith Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 4:08 PM To: Gareth Hicks ; Glamorgan List Subject: Re: [GLA] Glamorgan FHS Glamorgan FHS website is up an running again today. Let's hope it stays that way! Rosemary Smith

Glamorgan FHS website is up an running again today. Let's hope it stays that way! Rosemary Smith

----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Coleman" <[email protected]> To: "Jeff & Jolynn Barneck" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 12:21 AM Subject: Re: [GLA] Puzzle in the John FORD family > Of course not all baptisms are or were infant baptisms. If Clara Emily > was aged 13 when baptised, that might make sense as 13 would be the sort > of age for confirmation classes, and she could not have been confirmed > unless already baptised. On the image of the baptism register there is a > clear A next to this and a number of other entries baptised on the same > day by the Rector, showing Adult baptism. > > One of the other people baptised at the same time, with a distinctive > name, was also born in 1882. It does look like the members of a > confirmation class. > > It does say Gertrude is a granddaughter in 1901 census. She could have > been a child of Florence or Walter, and presumably the grandparents > effectively adopted her. > > Jeff > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jeff & Jolynn Barneck" <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 10:24 PM > Subject: [GLA] Puzzle in the John FORD family > > >> First may I again say thank you to those of you who are willing to look >> through old newspapers or check census records or several other things >> for people who are not YOUR family. Thanks, Dai, for the information >> about the Cardiff Times and the newspaper article for Alfred Evan FORD. >> >> Now I have come across a puzzle that perhaps can be solved by those with >> much experience in looking for things in the past. A brother of Alfred's >> named John FORD who married Mary Ann BECK 14 September 1872 in Penarth >> St. Augustine Parish had five children, according to family records. Our >> family records show FLORENCE born 25 Oct. 1873 in Cardiff; >> WALTER JOHN born 25 Jun. 1875 in Cardiff; >> ELIZABETH ANN born 29 Jan. 1879 in Cardiff; >> another ELIZABETH ANN born 31 Oct. 1881 in Cardiff; >> and >> CLARA EMILY born 13 Nov. 1882 in Cardiff. >> >> I have found three of these children on the census records. In the 1891 >> census the is Florence, age 17; Walter C-F-J, age 15; and Clara E., age >> 8. On the 1901 cenus I found John, age 54; Mary Ann, age 49; Clara Emily, >> age 18; and Gertrude Mary, age 5. Someone I asked to look at the census >> thinks the relationship for Gertrude is granddaughter; but I can't tell >> for sure. >> >> Clara Emily became married to William Henry Chamberlain on 8 April 1901 >> in Canton Parish, probably right after the census was taken. When I was >> looking on the Index of Glamorgan Baptisms made by the Glamorgan Family >> History Society for baptismal records for their children, I found Doris, >> baptized 27 Feb. 1902; William Ford, baptized 25 July 1906; and Clifford >> Henry, baptized 18 June 1908--all in the Canton Parish while they were >> living either at 35 or 27 Leckwith Road. The 1911 census lists only >> these children--Doris, age 9; William Ford, age 5; and Clifford Henry, >> age 3. (The age span between Doris and William Ford might indicate >> another child might have been born and died.) >> >> The puzzle became apparent when I was looking at the baptism record for >> Doris on 27 Feb. 1902 in Canton. Right below the listing for her was a >> listing for Gertrude Mary, d of John and Mary Ann FORD!! That's what >> made me look at the 1901 census record showing John and Mary Ann. Again >> that seems to show her as a granddaughter; but the baptismal record gives >> NO indication of that kind of relationship. >> >> Furthermore, when I was trying to figure out what was going on with >> Gertrude Mary , I discovered a listing for another Clara Emily, baptized >> 1895 in Canton St. John, Glamorgan, Wales, whose parents are John and >> Mary Ann FORD. The parents are living at 27 Leckwith Road, which is >> their residence listed for the 1901 census and the baptismal record of >> Gertrude in 1902. >> >> I am familiar with the practice of having a child die and naming the next >> child of the same gender as the deceased child with the same name as the >> dead child. But since Clara Emily lived and in fact got married, etc., >> it seems like something is rather strange here. >> >> CAN ANY OF YOU HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT? Please and Thank you. >> >> JoLynn Barneck

Hi JoLynn, Here they are. FORD, Alfred E Head Married M 46 1855 Licensed Boatman Penarth, Glamorganshire FORD, Hannah Wife Married F 39 1862 Penarth, Glamorganshire FORD, Florence Daughter Single F 13 1888 Nurse Maid Penarth, Glamorganshire Piece: 4989 Folio: 17 Page: 25 Registration District: Cardiff Civil Parish: Penarth 27, John Street, Penarth Glamorganshire Jan > Dear List: > > I cannot find Alfred Evan and Hannah/Annie FORD in the 1901 census by > looking on the internet at my home. Is it possible for any of you with > access to the 1901 census to see if they are listed there with or without > children. I believe they should be in Penarth. > > > JoLynn Barneck > -- >

Dear List: I cannot find Alfred Evan and Hannah/Annie FORD in the 1901 census by looking on the internet at my home. Is it possible for any of you with access to the 1901 census to see if they are listed there with or without children. I believe they should be in Penarth. If anyone can help, I would really appreciate it. Thanks, JoLynn Barneck

First may I again say thank you to those of you who are willing to look through old newspapers or check census records or several other things for people who are not YOUR family. Thanks, Dai, for the information about the Cardiff Times and the newspaper article for Alfred Evan FORD. Now I have come across a puzzle that perhaps can be solved by those with much experience in looking for things in the past. A brother of Alfred's named John FORD who married Mary Ann BECK 14 September 1872 in Penarth St. Augustine Parish had five children, according to family records. Our family records show FLORENCE born 25 Oct. 1873 in Cardiff; WALTER JOHN born 25 Jun. 1875 in Cardiff; ELIZABETH ANN born 29 Jan. 1879 in Cardiff; another ELIZABETH ANN born 31 Oct. 1881 in Cardiff; and CLARA EMILY born 13 Nov. 1882 in Cardiff. I have found three of these children on the census records. In the 1891 census the is Florence, age 17; Walter C-F-J, age 15; and Clara E., age 8. On the 1901 cenus I found John, age 54; Mary Ann, age 49; Clara Emily, age 18; and Gertrude Mary, age 5. Someone I asked to look at the census thinks the relationship for Gertrude is granddaughter; but I can't tell for sure. Clara Emily became married to William Henry Chamberlain on 8 April 1901 in Canton Parish, probably right after the census was taken. When I was looking on the Index of Glamorgan Baptisms made by the Glamorgan Family History Society for baptismal records for their children, I found Doris, baptized 27 Feb. 1902; William Ford, baptized 25 July 1906; and Clifford Henry, baptized 18 June 1908--all in the Canton Parish while they were living either at 35 or 27 Leckwith Road. The 1911 census lists only these children--Doris, age 9; William Ford, age 5; and Clifford Henry, age 3. (The age span between Doris and William Ford might indicate another child might have been born and died.) The puzzle became apparent when I was looking at the baptism record for Doris on 27 Feb. 1902 in Canton. Right below the listing for her was a listing for Gertrude Mary, d of John and Mary Ann FORD!! That's what made me look at the 1901 census record showing John and Mary Ann. Again that seems to show her as a granddaughter; but the baptismal record gives NO indication of that kind of relationship. Furthermore, when I was trying to figure out what was going on with Gertrude Mary , I discovered a listing for another Clara Emily, baptized 1895 in Canton St. John, Glamorgan, Wales, whose parents are John and Mary Ann FORD. The parents are living at 27 Leckwith Road, which is their residence listed for the 1901 census and the baptismal record of Gertrude in 1902. I am familiar with the practice of having a child die and naming the next child of the same gender as the deceased child with the same name as the dead child. But since Clara Emily lived and in fact got married, etc., it seems like something is rather strange here. CAN ANY OF YOU HELP ME FIGURE THIS OUT? Please and Thank you. JoLynn Barneck

There has been a major problem with Rootsweb over the past few weeks and our website went down twice and Alun reloaded the pages as soon as we were aware of the problem. However many websites went down this week. Unfortunately, it has taken time for our webmaster to get an answer from Rootsweb to allow us to access our to the site. The Glamorgan FHS pages wereable to be reloaded again last night so hope the site will reappear shortly. Rosemary Smith

Same here and no direct links in search engines. I wonder if this is to do with the new website that has been promised to be on line quite soon. Maybe on a different server ? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gareth Hicks" <[email protected]> To: "Glamorgan List" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 05, 2013 2:42 PM Subject: [GLA] Glamorgan FHS > All my links on Genuki to the Glamorgan FHS are showing as 'access > forbidden' this week > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsglfhs/ > > Have I missed something ? > > Gareth Hicks > Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ > Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > Cwmgors a'r Waun > http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html > > > -- > > To send to the list send to [email protected] > GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html > - > This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ > - > A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be > found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ > > - > The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

All my links on Genuki to the Glamorgan FHS are showing as 'access forbidden' this week http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~wlsglfhs/ Have I missed something ? Gareth Hicks Genuki Wales http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/ Gareth's Help Page http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html Cwmgors a'r Waun http://freepages.history.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~cwmgors/Waun.html

Mary, try the HistoricalDirectories site, which I see is being worked on again. http://www2.le.ac.uk/library/find/rarebooksandarchives/specialcollections/historical-directories Dai On 04/09/2013 11:24, Mary Mizzi wrote: > Sorry List... Senior Moment?? (:-( > > I wrote the wrong word.."Electoral Rolls" (also doing Australian > Family History at the same time)!!! > > I meant some type of "Directory" for Swansea in 1840-1860 > > Mary in Nth Qld Aus. > >

Sorry List... Senior Moment?? (:-( I wrote the wrong word.."Electoral Rolls" (also doing Australian Family History at the same time)!!! I meant some type of "Directory" for Swansea in 1840-1860 Mary in Nth Qld Aus.

I have today updated some items on the Glamorgan Mailing List's website. In doing so I added this excellent website to the page of Useful Links. http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~familyalbum/ Brian Morgan of Monmouthshire has a nice link as above, on the County of Monmouthshire in Kelly's Directory 1901. The Glamorgan Mailing List's website, shown in my signature. My best wishes, Jill Glamorgan Mailing List's website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/

After reading Jeff's reply, I wondered what other than Bastardy Orders was the norm when my illegimate great grand-father was born in 1852. I found this interesting website http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/information_and_explanation/world/hist ory_uk.htm Which led to this http://www.childsupportanalysis.co.uk/guest_contributions/snow_illegitimate/ index.htm which isn't in my timeline, but of interest. >From my research into my g-g-father's case I believe he was privately supported and he later took the surname of his father, as I was able to trace him. My best wishes, Jill Glamorgan Mailing List's website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jeff Coleman Sent: 04 September 2013 00:28 To: Karen Ball-Pyatt; [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLA] Definition of "affiliate" in relation to a birth out ofwedlock I think that Mona and Patricia have given good answers to the query. As she did not take out affiliation proceedings against the putative father, he would not have had to pay his 3 shillings and 6 pence a week (the 1881 rate) to maintain the child, but he would also not have had any rights to have contact with the child or to have any say in the child's upbringing. At least that is my understanding of the situation as it then was in UK. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Ball-Pyatt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:26 AM Subject: [GLA] Definition of "affiliate" in relation to a birth out ofwedlock > Hi, > I am researching a breach of promise court case that involved my > great-grandfather's older sister in 1893 in Cardiff. In the newspaper > report of the case, it said: > > On the 3rd of April, 1892, she was delivered of a male child. She did > not affiliate the child, as her parents objected to it. > > In this context, does "affiliate" refer to the degree of her emotional > attachment to the child? (I suspect that this might my 21st century > interpretation of the word). Could it refer to the naming of the child? > She gave her son her last name, but the father's surname as a middle > name. The name of the father was not given on the birth certificate. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Cheers, > Karen > Waterloo, ON Canada -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

JoLynn, I am not aware of any disease. There are no clues in the death notice. You can find on the National Library of Wales web site, in the Newspapers section, The Cardiff Times 16 June 1906 p6: FORD - June 5th, at 26 Maughan-street, Penarth. Alfred FORD, aged 51, ship's rigger. I couldn't find anything for Annie/Hannah, even after browsing the Family Notices in all issues of the Cardiff Times for the quarter she died. Dai On 03/09/2013 21:23, Jeff & Jolynn Barneck wrote: > Thanks to all who helped with information for Alfred and Hannah/Annie FORD. It's great to have people with more knowledge and tidbits of information lend a helping hand to my search. > > I am curious about one other thing with regard to these two parents. According the freebmd they both died the same year at a relatively young age. Was some disease going around the Cardiff area in 1906 that might have caused their deaths so close to each other? > > Thanks again. > > JoLynn Barneck

Hi List, Were there any type of Electoral Rolls published in Swansea around 1840-1850? Mary

I think that Mona and Patricia have given good answers to the query. As she did not take out affiliation proceedings against the putative father, he would not have had to pay his 3 shillings and 6 pence a week (the 1881 rate) to maintain the child, but he would also not have had any rights to have contact with the child or to have any say in the child's upbringing. At least that is my understanding of the situation as it then was in UK. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Karen Ball-Pyatt" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 1:26 AM Subject: [GLA] Definition of "affiliate" in relation to a birth out ofwedlock > Hi, > I am researching a breach of promise court case that involved my > great-grandfather's older sister in 1893 in Cardiff. In the newspaper > report of the case, it said: > > On the 3rd of April, 1892, she was delivered of a male child. She did > not affiliate the child, as her parents objected to it. > > In this context, does "affiliate" refer to the degree of her emotional > attachment to the child? (I suspect that this might my 21st century > interpretation of the word). Could it refer to the naming of the child? > She gave her son her last name, but the father's surname as a middle > name. The name of the father was not given on the birth certificate. > > Any help would be much appreciated. > > Cheers, > Karen > Waterloo, ON Canada