Hi Ray, There is no on-line or indeed any particular off-line resource of employment records of South Wales Collieries and apologies if this is going to sound like me building a series of brick walls in your quest to find your ancestors record of employment:-) The main reason would be the systematic destruction of records prior to vesting day in 1947, but also the natural demise of many collieries before that date saw the destruction of their records, not that we have come across any formal "employment" records as we would probably recognise them today from a modern company. There is, as always, some hope but lies mainly with a great deal of luck as to what records have survived and those that have are still very much piecemeal. One of your main hurdles may well be establishing just what colliery or more likely collieries your ancestor would have worked, it wasn`t unusual for miners to walk many miles to and from work, including over the surrounding mountains to neighbouring valleys, for many reasons, but better paid work and being black-listed in their own valley collieries probably the most common. Then throw into the pot the fact that within a small geographic region he would have had the "choice" of several collieries and the task does sometimes seem insurmountable! However to finish on a positive note, there is hope, particularly with local history societies if your ancestors area is covered by one. In our small area, the 2 mile long Ogmore Valley, between 1865 and 1983 we have seen 14 collieries come and go.......The records that have survived that we have possession of and which would have been available for many collieries dependant on the time they were operating and of course whether they have survived..... 1905 - Contracts Book (every worker signed daily) Ocean Western Colliery 1907 to 1918 - Wyndham Colliery Supplementary Relief Fund 1913 to 1916 Medical Aid society subscriotions, 2nd Rhondda Main Colliery. 1934 to 1939 Ocean Colliery Company Magazine (Full set in British Library) 1938 to 1939 - Banksman`s dispute, Wyndham Colliery. 1958 - Accident book, Ocean Western Colliery Not a lot for 118 years worth of coal mining involving many thousands of men and boys, and there are other records where you "may" glean some information which include but is not limited to: School Admission Records - depends on the diligence of the head and whether they have survived. Parish Records - again depends on the didligence of the incumbent. Ian Winstanley`s Mining Death CDs - They are some non fatal records included. Chapel histories. Local Undertakers records. trade Directories (for managers and under managers) Local press - Particularly around the dates of any disputes in the collieries, of which there were many! Regards, Huw Secretary, OVLH&HS www.ovlhs.co.uk http://moodle.bridgend.gov.uk/ydderwen/course/view.php?id=210 http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003187444024 @YDderwenPTA On 21/09/2013 05:14, James R. Davis wrote: > A great request. I have the same question but for employment records for > these valleys in the late 1830's. My John E. DAVIS (must have been DAVIES) > line came to the USA in 1841 from there. > Peace, James R. Davis, Sacramento, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of The Lewis family > Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:02 AM > To: Glam List > Subject: [GLA] Records of employment in South Wales collieries - Rhondda and > Aberdare Valleys > > G'day List > > Haven't made a posting for a while. When I do it is usually asking for help > and it is the case this time. I have been researching my late father-in-law > with a view to writing a short biography of him for the family. He spent > most of his working life either as a collier or as a repairman in the > Rhondda and Aberdare valleys. I know where he worked in 1911 and in 1956 but > not for how long. Where else he may have worked is unclear but most likely > are the collieries in the Mid-Rhondda area. > My wife doesn't know either. Is there an online resource that I can use to > find out. And of course, any other collieries where he may have worked. I am > certain there will be but those I have tried have led nowhere as they seem > only to list books and other material that I have to consult on site mostly > in Swansea. Living in Western Australia makes that a little difficult and we > are not planning a trip any time soon. > > My request is simple to make but will probably not be able to be answered > easily. Are there any online indices which list underground workers in the > Rhondda and Aberdare valleys between 1910 and 1950? > > I look forward to some illuminatory replies to lighten my darkness. > > Yours in anticipation > Ray Lewis > Hazelmere Western Australia

Jill, Where can those newspapers be accessed? Thanks, doris > Dear Huw, > I learnt a lot from your message, thank you. > > One thing you could have added to the list 1905-58 was the Monumental > Inscriptions of those churches and chapels not forgetting the cemeteries, > that have been transcribed and published. Newspaper accounts, in > particular > when there was a large accident and the men who died are named. Obituaries > in plenty, and loads of incidents regarding wife and husband abuse, > marriages etc., The Obituaries are wonderful, because usually they name > so > many people, relatives and friends and the Rhondda, Merthyr and Rhymney > papers are full of these, and I am pretty sure that the other areas report > in the same way. > > Although men did, as you say Huw, walk many miles to a pit, I thought > about > my own mining ancestors in the Rhondda, and all from some of their arrival > to the area because of the coal industry in the Rhondda down to my father > and his brother, worked in pits which were close to their home. > > Jill > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Huw Daniel > Sent: 21 September 2013 10:49 > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [GLA] Records of employment in South Wales collieries - > Rhondda > and Aberdare Valleys > > Hi Ray, > There is no on-line or indeed any particular off-line resource > of > employment records of South Wales Collieries and apologies if this is > going > to sound like me building a series of brick walls in your quest to find > your > ancestors record of employment:-) > > The main reason would be the systematic destruction of records prior to > vesting day in 1947, but also the natural demise of many collieries before > that date saw the destruction of their records, not that we have come > across any formal "employment" records as we would probably recognise them > today from a modern company. > > There is, as always, some hope but lies mainly with a great deal of luck > as > to what records have survived and those that have are still very much > piecemeal. > > One of your main hurdles may well be establishing just what colliery or > more > likely collieries your ancestor would have worked, it wasn`t unusual for > miners to walk many miles to and from work, including over the surrounding > mountains to neighbouring valleys, for many reasons, but better paid work > and being black-listed in their own valley collieries probably the most > common. > > Then throw into the pot the fact that within a small geographic region he > would have had the "choice" of several collieries and the task does > sometimes seem insurmountable! > > However to finish on a positive note, there is hope, particularly with > local > history societies if your ancestors area is covered by one. > > In our small area, the 2 mile long Ogmore Valley, between 1865 and 1983 > we > have seen 14 collieries come and go.......The records that have survived > that we have possession of and which would have been available for many > collieries dependant on the time they were operating and of course whether > they have survived..... > > 1905 - Contracts Book (every worker signed daily) Ocean Western Colliery > 1907 to 1918 - Wyndham Colliery Supplementary Relief Fund > 1913 to 1916 Medical Aid society subscriotions, 2nd Rhondda Main Colliery. > 1934 to 1939 Ocean Colliery Company Magazine (Full set in British Library) > 1938 to 1939 - Banksman`s dispute, Wyndham Colliery. > 1958 - Accident book, Ocean Western Colliery > > Not a lot for 118 years worth of coal mining involving many thousands of > men > and boys, and there are other records where you "may" glean some > information > which include but is not limited to: > > > School Admission Records - depends on the diligence of the head and > whether > they have survived. > Parish Records - again depends on the didligence of the incumbent. > Ian Winstanley`s Mining Death CDs - They are some non fatal records > included. > Chapel histories. > Local Undertakers records. > trade Directories (for managers and under managers) Local press - > Particularly around the dates of any disputes in the collieries, of which > there were many! > > Regards, > > Huw > Secretary, OVLH&HS > www.ovlhs.co.uk > http://moodle.bridgend.gov.uk/ydderwen/course/view.php?id=210 > http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100003187444024 > @YDderwenPTA > > > -- > > To send to the list send to [email protected] > GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at > http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html > - > This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ > - > A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be > found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ > > - > The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and > http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you, Karl, for your recollections of the area. These are fascinating for any of us with family connections to the area to read. David Canberra On 20/09/2013, at 4:18 AM, Karl W Smith <[email protected]> wrote: > I've only just found this website so apologise that my input is so late. > > I lived in the general area for 5 years frm 14th October 1940, when my father was sent from Croydon to work at what has become the GE Aero Engine Overhaul faciliity at Upper Boat. In 1943 he was allocated a bungalow (one of many built for the Ministry of Aircraft Production) near the canal above Upper Boat. So we ceased to live in "digs"! > > I became very friendly with a local lad of similar age, (Thomas Reginald) Clive Griffin, whose family owned Gelliaerion Farm (now the site of Tesco Superstore, I believe. > > Together we wandered the mountain from the farm up to Eglwsilan Church but always gave the hospital a very wide berth - I for one was scared of infections! Don't know about Clive. The hospital was, if my memories are right, was part wood, part corrugated iron and all painted green. I could be wrong, but it was 70 years ago and I've not seen it since. > > There were footpaths on the mountainside that shortened our walks when compared with distances by road and, on top of the mountain (not very far from the hospital) we ate winberries and found skylarks' nests. There were plenty of fresh water springs from which to drink so we only needed a few sandwiches and we were set up for the day. > > Other highlights of that time were catching tiddlers and exploding pop bottles part filled with slaked lime and water in the canal! Probably banned by 'elf & safety today. > The Taff ran black with coaldust all the year round, overflowed its banks every spring leaving black mud along its length. > > Clive Griffin, with his elder brother Colin, went on from a filling station in Pontypridd to become Griffin Garages. By my reckonng he'd have been 80 on 6th June this year (2013). > I hope he's still around. > > I have many happy memories from those years which changed my life from that of a suburban child to someone who much prefers village way of life and plenty of open space around - despite being compulsorily uprooted from our home (it was boarded up for 5 years), leaving all our possessions behind. One bad memory stems from one particular teacher at the County School who clearly resented London lads getting places there. That was a long time ago. > > Karl W Smith

A great request. I have the same question but for employment records for these valleys in the late 1830's. My John E. DAVIS (must have been DAVIES) line came to the USA in 1841 from there. Peace, James R. Davis, Sacramento, CA -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of The Lewis family Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:02 AM To: Glam List Subject: [GLA] Records of employment in South Wales collieries - Rhondda and Aberdare Valleys G'day List Haven't made a posting for a while. When I do it is usually asking for help and it is the case this time. I have been researching my late father-in-law with a view to writing a short biography of him for the family. He spent most of his working life either as a collier or as a repairman in the Rhondda and Aberdare valleys. I know where he worked in 1911 and in 1956 but not for how long. Where else he may have worked is unclear but most likely are the collieries in the Mid-Rhondda area. My wife doesn't know either. Is there an online resource that I can use to find out. And of course, any other collieries where he may have worked. I am certain there will be but those I have tried have led nowhere as they seem only to list books and other material that I have to consult on site mostly in Swansea. Living in Western Australia makes that a little difficult and we are not planning a trip any time soon. My request is simple to make but will probably not be able to be answered easily. Are there any online indices which list underground workers in the Rhondda and Aberdare valleys between 1910 and 1950? I look forward to some illuminatory replies to lighten my darkness. Yours in anticipation Ray Lewis Hazelmere Western Australia -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

My thanks to those who looked in to the WARD and OR[U]AM Families for me. We now have another line to follow.   We Have Edgar Henry WARD[born Cardiff 1900]was married to Dorothea Sarah May MATTHEWS at Cardiff in 1932. The index for the marriage only gives her surname. However,her birth entry gives her full name as above. She was born in Cardiff in 1905. So can we have a lookup in the 1911 census please to see where she was born? Her Parents should be Henry & Caroline MATTHEWS.   On another angle,Henry MATTHEWS Brother was Percival John MATTHEWS who my neighbour's reckon was some "High Ranking Officer"in the Armed forces,[dunno when this was?] and held the Nickname of "Slasher". Due to to what he got up to with his "Sword?" They also told me he was Highly Awarded for his services. Whatever that may mean? And they add the information of the "Huzzards",and he was of Bristol.   My Grateful thanks to the many who have answered in the past. All whom I have thanked personally. Cheers Graham. Graham Williams, Glam;FHS# 551. of Canton,Cardiff.

Graham I expect you remember that there used to be a company in Cardiff called Oram and Ward. In the 1937 Cardiff directory they are shown as Tent and Marquee Owners and Hirers, based in Egerton Street, but I have a feeling that they later branched out into other businesses. Did they have a shop in the Castle Arcade or Duke Street Arcade selling leather bags and things? When tents and marquees were hired for fetes etc you would see 'Oram and Ward' stencilled onto the canvas. My recollections are of the 'Heath Citizens' fetes at Heath Park in the 1950s and 60s. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pamela Marsden" <[email protected]> To: "Robert Williams" <[email protected]>; <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 20, 2013 9:52 AM Subject: Re: [GLA] WARD family of Somerset. > Hope this helps: > > Oram family 1841, address: Atworth, Bradford, Wilts. > > Thomas Orum 35 Yeoman > Hester Orum 36 > James Orum 14 > Moses Orum 12 > John Orum 8 > George Orum 6 > Joseph Orum 4 > Thomas Orum 2 > > Oram family in 1851, address: The Common, Bradford, Wilts > > ORAM, Hester Head W F 51 1800 Pauper Widow Farmer's Widow > ORAM, Moses Son Unmarried M 21 1830 Ag Lab > ORAM, George Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Mason > ORAM, Joseph Son M 13 1838 Ag Lab > ORAM, Thomas Son M 10 1841 Ag Lab > ORAM, Martha Daughter F 8 1843 Scholar > GINGELL, William Visitor Unmarried M 18 1833 > > Pamela > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Robert Williams > Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:14 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [GLA] WARD family of Somerset. > > Hi all. > Further research has found the WARD family originated probably in Ditcheat > Somerset. > I am now looking for the family in the 1841 and 1851 census. > > Could some kind soul please find them. > We have George WARD born about 1805 in Ditcheat. > His wife was Sarah,maiden name unknown. > Their children were Henry Charles WARD birth registered in the june > quarter > of 1839 at Wells,Somerset.[Henry Charles must have died in around 1872,as > his widow in then married to > John CRAY in Wells in 1872.I have them,WARD's and CRAY's at Midsomer > Norton > in 1881.] > > And Emma WARD born about 1843. > > We have George and Sarah and their children at Midsomer Norton in the 1861 > census. > > We are also looking for Thomas ORAM born about 1840 at Atworth,Wiltshire. > He married firstly Hannah Maria BAYDEN in 1863 at Marlboro Wilts; > She died in 1875 aged 39.[She is buried in Adamsdown Cemetary Cardiff.] > > Thomas ORAM then married to Sarah BROWN in 1876 at Andover,Wilts; > All from "Free BMD;" > > I have Thomas ORAM in Canton,Cardiff in the 1891 census. > A sighting in the 1841 and 1851 census would be most welcome. > > Many Thanks for your continued support to all. > Cheers Graham. > > Graham Williams, > Glam;FHS# 551. > of Canton,Cardiff.

Hope this helps: Oram family 1841, address: Atworth, Bradford, Wilts. Thomas Orum 35 Yeoman Hester Orum 36 James Orum 14 Moses Orum 12 John Orum 8 George Orum 6 Joseph Orum 4 Thomas Orum 2 Oram family in 1851, address: The Common, Bradford, Wilts ORAM, Hester Head W F 51 1800 Pauper Widow Farmer's Widow ORAM, Moses Son Unmarried M 21 1830 Ag Lab ORAM, George Son Unmarried M 15 1836 Mason ORAM, Joseph Son M 13 1838 Ag Lab ORAM, Thomas Son M 10 1841 Ag Lab ORAM, Martha Daughter F 8 1843 Scholar GINGELL, William Visitor Unmarried M 18 1833 Pamela -----Original Message----- From: Robert Williams Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [GLA] WARD family of Somerset. Hi all. Further research has found the WARD family originated probably in Ditcheat Somerset. I am now looking for the family in the 1841 and 1851 census. Could some kind soul please find them. We have George WARD born about 1805 in Ditcheat. His wife was Sarah,maiden name unknown. Their children were Henry Charles WARD birth registered in the june quarter of 1839 at Wells,Somerset.[Henry Charles must have died in around 1872,as his widow in then married to John CRAY in Wells in 1872.I have them,WARD's and CRAY's at Midsomer Norton in 1881.] And Emma WARD born about 1843. We have George and Sarah and their children at Midsomer Norton in the 1861 census. We are also looking for Thomas ORAM born about 1840 at Atworth,Wiltshire. He married firstly Hannah Maria BAYDEN in 1863 at Marlboro Wilts; She died in 1875 aged 39.[She is buried in Adamsdown Cemetary Cardiff.] Thomas ORAM then married to Sarah BROWN in 1876 at Andover,Wilts; All from "Free BMD;" I have Thomas ORAM in Canton,Cardiff in the 1891 census. A sighting in the 1841 and 1851 census would be most welcome. Many Thanks for your continued support to all. Cheers Graham. Graham Williams, Glam;FHS# 551. of Canton,Cardiff. -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ----- No virus found in this message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 2013.0.3408 / Virus Database: 3222/6682 - Release Date: 09/19/13

Hi list When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol and page number, how can I work out who married who please? Also is it likely that someone from Swansea would marry in Carmarthenshire please? Regards Karen.

I've only just found this website so apologise that my input is so late. I lived in the general area for 5 years frm 14th October 1940, when my father was sent from Croydon to work at what has become the GE Aero Engine Overhaul faciliity at Upper Boat. In 1943 he was allocated a bungalow (one of many built for the Ministry of Aircraft Production) near the canal above Upper Boat. So we ceased to live in "digs"! I became very friendly with a local lad of similar age, (Thomas Reginald) Clive Griffin, whose family owned Gelliaerion Farm (now the site of Tesco Superstore, I believe. Together we wandered the mountain from the farm up to Eglwsilan Church but always gave the hospital a very wide berth - I for one was scared of infections! Don't know about Clive. The hospital was, if my memories are right, was part wood, part corrugated iron and all painted green. I could be wrong, but it was 70 years ago and I've not seen it since. There were footpaths on the mountainside that shortened our walks when compared with distances by road and, on top of the mountain (not very far from the hospital) we ate winberries and found skylarks' nests. There were plenty of fresh water springs from which to drink so we only needed a few sandwiches and we were set up for the day. Other highlights of that time were catching tiddlers and exploding pop bottles part filled with slaked lime and water in the canal! Probably banned by 'elf & safety today. The Taff ran black with coaldust all the year round, overflowed its banks every spring leaving black mud along its length. Clive Griffin, with his elder brother Colin, went on from a filling station in Pontypridd to become Griffin Garages. By my reckonng he'd have been 80 on 6th June this year (2013). I hope he's still around. I have many happy memories from those years which changed my life from that of a suburban child to someone who much prefers village way of life and plenty of open space around - despite being compulsorily uprooted from our home (it was boarded up for 5 years), leaving all our possessions behind. One bad memory stems from one particular teacher at the County School who clearly resented London lads getting places there. That was a long time ago. Karl W Smith C.Eng., F.R.Ae.S. Heckington House Heckington Lincs NG34 9JD

Hi all. Further research has found the WARD family originated probably in Ditcheat Somerset. I am now looking for the family in the 1841 and 1851 census.   Could some kind soul please find them. We have George WARD born about 1805 in Ditcheat. His wife was Sarah,maiden name unknown. Their children were Henry Charles WARD birth registered in the june quarter of 1839 at Wells,Somerset.[Henry Charles must have died in around 1872,as his widow in then married to John CRAY in Wells in 1872.I have them,WARD's and CRAY's at Midsomer Norton in 1881.]   And Emma WARD born about 1843.   We have George and Sarah and their children at Midsomer Norton in the 1861 census.   We are also looking for Thomas ORAM born about 1840 at Atworth,Wiltshire. He married firstly Hannah Maria BAYDEN in 1863 at Marlboro Wilts; She died in  1875 aged 39.[She is buried in Adamsdown Cemetary Cardiff.]   Thomas ORAM then married to Sarah BROWN in 1876 at Andover,Wilts; All from "Free BMD;"   I have Thomas ORAM in Canton,Cardiff in the 1891 census. A sighting in the 1841 and 1851 census would be most welcome.   Many Thanks for your continued support to all. Cheers Graham. Graham Williams, Glam;FHS# 551. of Canton,Cardiff.

Hi Karen It's a shame more counties aren't like Lancashire. We have the Lancashire BMD. Here the county's Family History Societies are collaborating with the local Registration Services to make the indexes to these records freely searchable via the Internet. Because they are working from the original certificate they tell you the Mothers maiden name. With the marriages they tell you the name of the spouse and the church or whether a registrar attended. And the deaths give you the age. I don't know how complete they are, but there is almost 9 million births, over 4 million marriages and approaching 5 million deaths. We also have Online Parish Clerk here in Lancashire and it really is a help. Currently we have over Seven and a quarter Million records that have been transcribed. You can search for somebody a particular parish, town or the whole county. I don't know how far the OPC goes back, but my earliest ancestor is 1573 Regards Michael On 19-Sep-13 12:51 PM, Karen Mabey wrote: > Hi list > > When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol and > page number, how can I work out who married who please? > > > > Also is it likely that someone from Swansea would marry in Carmarthenshire > please? > > > > Regards > > Karen. >

I found a John in my research (not JONES), he was entered as Jno Best wishes Jeanette -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: 16 September 2013 10:16 To: [email protected] Subject: [GLA] Another name for John I am trying to a John Jones and his family in the 1841 and 1851 census. I believe that EVAN is a Welsh name for John, are there any other Welsh male names that also mean JOHN. Many thanks Michael -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It is always worth looking at the original index pages (using the 'spectacles' icons on FreeBMD or equivalent facilities on the commercial sites) to see whether the page numbers have been correctly transcribed. The parish of Loughor near Swansea was actually in Llanelly registration district for many years. In the commercial sites this might well show up as Carmarthenshire. Loughor included Gowerton (subsequently a parish in its own right) and parts of Gorseinon and Dunvant. You can find the areas covered by particular registration districts at http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/ or by following the links from names of registration districts in FreeBMD. Normally all the marriage entries on one GRO index number will have come from the same Church, Chapel or register office. If you are able to find one distinctive name on an index number, and find the entry in the Findmypast or Familysearch Glamorgan or Carmarthenshire baptisms, you often find the other entries on that index page took place on the same day, or a few days or weeks before or afterwards, in the same parish register. Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Geoffrey Stone" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]>; "Karen Mabey" <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [GLA] vol and page numbers > At 12:51 19/09/2013, Karen Mabey wrote: >>Hi list >> >>When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol >>and >>page number, how can I work out who married who please? > > You can't. You have some possibles. What I do is to try the > pairings in the next census to confirm or eliminate the > possibilities. A bit tedious if too many, but I don't have another > solution. > > Regards, > > Geoff

Karen You might have success with: - http://www.marriage-locator.co.uk/ Adrian Yorkshire > At 12:51 19/09/2013, Karen Mabey wrote: >> Hi list >> >> When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol and >> page number, how can I work out who married who please? >

At 12:51 19/09/2013, Karen Mabey wrote: >Hi list > >When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol and >page number, how can I work out who married who please? You can't. You have some possibles. What I do is to try the pairings in the next census to confirm or eliminate the possibilities. A bit tedious if too many, but I don't have another solution. Regards, Geoff One Name Study of WEDMORE worldwide and linked interests in JOSEPH, BRISON, DUCK, POLE, TOLSON and One Name Study of PUCKLE, SCARNELL and SCUFFHAM in the UK. http://www.wedmore.org.uk

H Karen, You cannot work out from the index alone who married who. Depending on the year, there are usually 4,3 or 2 options of who married who. You can sometimes work out from subsequent census entries which of the pair married. Alternatively check Familysearch, ot the parish marriages for the appropriate county (Glamorgan's are on Findmypast). It is quite possible for someone from Swansea to marry in Carmarthenshire, particularly if it is a male, whose wife is from Carmarthenshire. regards, Dai On 19/09/2013 12:51, Karen Mabey wrote: > Hi list > > When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol and > page number, how can I work out who married who please? > > > > Also is it likely that someone from Swansea would marry in Carmarthenshire > please? > > > > Regards > > Karen. >

Graham - 1851 census: Name: George Ward Age: 46 Estimated Birth Year: abt 1805 Relation: Head Spouse's Name: Sarah Ward Gender: M (Male) Where born: Ditchet, Somerset, England Civil Parish: Radstock County/Island: Somerset Country: England Registration District: Clutton Sub-registration District: Clutton ED, institution, or vessel: 5b Neighbors: View others on page Household Schedule Number: 130 Piece: 1939 Folio: 491 Page Number: 37 Household Members: Name Age George Ward 46 Sarah Ward 44 Sarah A Ward 17 Ellen T Ward 15 Henry C Ward 11 Emma J Ward 9 Fanny Ward 7 John Ward 21 I'm still looking for them on the 1841 census. Lynne in Tucson -----Original Message----- From: Robert Williams Sent: Thursday, September 19, 2013 10:14 AM To: [email protected] Subject: [GLA] WARD family of Somerset. Hi all. Further research has found the WARD family originated probably in Ditcheat Somerset. I am now looking for the family in the 1841 and 1851 census. Could some kind soul please find them. We have George WARD born about 1805 in Ditcheat. His wife was Sarah,maiden name unknown. Their children were Henry Charles WARD birth registered in the june quarter of 1839 at Wells,Somerset.[Henry Charles must have died in around 1872,as his widow in then married to John CRAY in Wells in 1872.I have them,WARD's and CRAY's at Midsomer Norton in 1881.] And Emma WARD born about 1843. We have George and Sarah and their children at Midsomer Norton in the 1861 census. We are also looking for Thomas ORAM born about 1840 at Atworth,Wiltshire. He married firstly Hannah Maria BAYDEN in 1863 at Marlboro Wilts; She died in 1875 aged 39.[She is buried in Adamsdown Cemetary Cardiff.] Thomas ORAM then married to Sarah BROWN in 1876 at Andover,Wilts; All from "Free BMD;" I have Thomas ORAM in Canton,Cardiff in the 1891 census. A sighting in the 1841 and 1851 census would be most welcome. Many Thanks for your continued support to all. Cheers Graham. Graham Williams, Glam;FHS# 551. of Canton,Cardiff. -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I have sometimes made some headway by looking for "familiar" names - ie, surnames that are neighbors of the person in question, names that I have seen otherwise associated with the family. Sometimes I have focused on names that "sound" more Irish (since that is what I am looking for) than others? None of this is foolproof. Sue On 9/19/2013 8:44 AM, Geoffrey Stone wrote: > At 12:51 19/09/2013, Karen Mabey wrote: >> Hi list >> >> When looking for a marriage and I find several people with the same vol and >> page number, how can I work out who married who please? > You can't. You have some possibles. What I do is to try the > pairings in the next census to confirm or eliminate the > possibilities. A bit tedious if too many, but I don't have another solution. > > Regards, > > Geoff > > One Name Study of WEDMORE worldwide and linked interests in JOSEPH, > BRISON, DUCK, POLE, TOLSON and One Name Study of PUCKLE, SCARNELL > and SCUFFHAM in the UK. > http://www.wedmore.org.uk >

OOps got my counties mixed up. Should have read: My Carmarthenshire ancestor is John James JONES born Trelech Abt. 1859 Jill From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Jill Muir Sent: 18 September 2013 15:00 To: 'ANNE EVANS'; 'Michael'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLA] Another name for John Dear Ann, My Cardiganshire ancestor is John James JONES born Trelech Abt. 1859. Writing this makes me realise that I haven't yet checked the Welsh PRs on FMP for him yet. [You wrote:] I was amazed at the amount of John Jones ancestors this JJJ had! It was baffling and very confusing. Jill From: ANNE EVANS [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 18 September 2013 09:41 To: Jill Muir; 'Michael'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLA] Another name for John Hello Jill and List, I note that you are researching a John Jones of Cardiganshire. My line is from John Jones Cardiganshire (Llanddewi Brefi) but unfortunately they are numerous in that area and the trick is to find which line I want. I am researcing a John who was born about 1750 and was a gentleman of Coedmawr Llanddewi but after this John the family fortunes seem to have taken a bit of a nose dive! Yvonne Evans From: Jill Muir <[email protected]> To: 'Michael' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013, 16:08 Subject: Re: [GLA] Another name for John Hello Michael, Welcome to the Glamorgan List. I am also researching two separate lines of John JONES and have them both in all census where they are as John JONES. One family is of Upper Neath Valley and the other who married a Mary JONES [ can't get away from them can I?] came from Cardiganshire. Maybe because you have failed to find your ancestor that you have decided he was using patronymics? I note that you use FMP if that is your nice to look at website of Londales? We could perhaps help you in your search if you could give us his possible date of birth and place he was born. Is there a particular name or occupation in the family that could distinguish this particular family? I was sure I had mine when I found Periniah Jones, who had been my gt aunt's aunt who had described her and given me her name, which stuck in my mind. I found that FMP sometimes does not have some pages of a census - even recently an 1881 entry which seemed odd, especially when I searched ancestry I found this immediately - all three census years. My best wishes, Jill Glamorgan Mailing List's website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: 16 September 2013 10:16 To: [email protected] Subject: [GLA] Another name for John I am trying to a John Jones and his family in the 1841 and 1851 census. I believe that EVAN is a Welsh name for John, are there any other Welsh male names that also mean JOHN. Many thanks Michael

Dear Ann, My Cardiganshire ancestor is John James JONES born Trelech Abt. 1859. Writing this makes me realise that I haven't yet checked the Welsh PRs on FMP for him yet. I was amazed at the amount of John Jones ancestors this JJJ had! It was baffling and very confusing. Jill From: ANNE EVANS [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: 18 September 2013 09:41 To: Jill Muir; 'Michael'; [email protected] Subject: Re: [GLA] Another name for John Hello Jill and List, I note that you are researching a John Jones of Cardiganshire. My line is from John Jones Cardiganshire (Llanddewi Brefi) but unfortunately they are numerous in that area and the trick is to find which line I want. I am researcing a John who was born about 1750 and was a gentleman of Coedmawr Llanddewi but after this John the family fortunes seem to have taken a bit of a nose dive! Yvonne Evans From: Jill Muir <[email protected]> To: 'Michael' <[email protected]>; [email protected] Sent: Tuesday, 17 September 2013, 16:08 Subject: Re: [GLA] Another name for John Hello Michael, Welcome to the Glamorgan List. I am also researching two separate lines of John JONES and have them both in all census where they are as John JONES. One family is of Upper Neath Valley and the other who married a Mary JONES [ can't get away from them can I?] came from Cardiganshire. Maybe because you have failed to find your ancestor that you have decided he was using patronymics? I note that you use FMP if that is your nice to look at website of Londales? We could perhaps help you in your search if you could give us his possible date of birth and place he was born. Is there a particular name or occupation in the family that could distinguish this particular family? I was sure I had mine when I found Periniah Jones, who had been my gt aunt's aunt who had described her and given me her name, which stuck in my mind. I found that FMP sometimes does not have some pages of a census - even recently an 1881 entry which seemed odd, especially when I searched ancestry I found this immediately - all three census years. My best wishes, Jill Glamorgan Mailing List's website http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Michael Sent: 16 September 2013 10:16 To: [email protected] Subject: [GLA] Another name for John I am trying to a John Jones and his family in the 1841 and 1851 census. I believe that EVAN is a Welsh name for John, are there any other Welsh male names that also mean JOHN. Many thanks Michael -- To send to the list send to [email protected] GLAMORGAN Family History Mailing List archives etc. are at http://lists.rootsweb.com/index/intl/WLS/GLAMORGAN.html - This site has been prepared to help you use the Glamorgan List http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~glamorgan/ - A large amount of information, and a wide variety of useful links, may be found at http://www.genuki.org.uk/big/wal/GLA/ - The South/West Wales Lookup Exchange and Gareth's Help Pages http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~walesle/wal/AW.html and http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~ukwales2/hicks.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message