Jim, I am the listadm of GIVENS-L and also a descendant of Elizabeth Givens of Monroe Co. OH who was married to Thomas Hines. They migrated to Miami Co. Ks. in 1864. I have yet to find anything on her parents. I am a active listowner. I will send info to the list that is GIVENS related, when I find it. Patricia L. Hall Proud Sponsor+50 RootsWeb phhgene@aol.com