Hello Ursula; Interesting response! Please don't be incensed. I did indeed do a lot of research, and found that Germany, like much of Europe, was divided into city-states. If you prefer another term, such as "duchy", "free state" or "independent state", please feel free. In re giving "the impression that the only reason people left Germany/Prussia was to escape conscription". That was not my intent. Of course they left for other reasons! But the discussion was about conscription ( I did say "young men") so that is the issue I addressed, and the one that drove my g-g-granddad and his brothers (and many others) to leave home. Furthermore, since male ancestors were/are easier to trace, the bulk of my family data tends to deal with them. Another one not mentioned was the scarcity of available farmland. As for Plattedeutsche, the term was and is indeed used to refer to a variety of dialects under the term "Low-German". It is used as well to refer to specific dialects such as Low-Saxon, and the dialect used by the "Pennsylvania Dutch". (I can see where you might take umbrage--the whole thing does get complex.) Some good definitions are found on Wikipedia (en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_German), from which I include a relevant extract: "There are three different uses of the term "Low German": 1. A specific name of any West Germanic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Germanic_languages> varieties <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variety_%28linguistics%29> that have neither taken part in the High German consonant shift <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_German_consonant_shift> nor classify as Low Franconian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Franconian_languages> or Anglo-Frisian <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anglo-Frisian_languages>; this is the scope discussed in this article. 2. A broader term for the entire West Germanic language family <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language_family> unaffected by the High German consonant shift, thus including Low Franconian varieties such as Dutch <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_language>; for this use, see Low Saxon-Low Franconian languages <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_Saxon-Low_Franconian_languages>. 3. A non-specific term for any non-standard <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Standard_language> variety of German <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_language>; this use is only found in Germany and is considered not to be linguistic <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linguistics>." Definition 3 covers what you discussed. Definition one is what I was referring to. If I erred in in any respect it was in over-simplifying (I didn't want to kill fellow readers with kindness, i.e.,too much of a good thing). Please not e that when I provided samples of family records from Schleswig-Holstein to native German speakers such as yourself, they found them indeciperable! It was only after doing much "Googling" and through multiple e-mail exchanges with additional native German speakers, that I found out about and identified the "Low-Saxon/Plattedeutsche/ Low-German" dialect spoken by my ancestors. Interestingly, the family emigrated to S-H from Holland in the 17th Century so they most likely spoke a tongue which fits into definition 2 att. I would also refer you to www.ethnologue.com/show_country.asp?name=Germany/ Languages of Germany/, in re Low-Saxon: "...few are native speakers (1996 Reinhard F. Hahn). Northern Germany. Lower Rhine Region below a line from Aachen to Witenberg. /Alternate names:/ Neddersassisch, Niedersaechsisch, Nedersaksisch, Low German, Plattdütsch,...Not intelligible to speakers of Standard German. A direct descendant of Old Saxon, related to English. 20 to 30 dialects with differing inherent intelligibility, depending on geographic distance." Another is www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/platt.html Low Saxon / Low German "Low Saxon (Low German) is a Germanic language that is the direct descendant of the Old Saxon language. It is the indigenous language of Northern Germany <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/platt.html?20065#ale> and the eastern parts of the Netherlands <http://www.geocities.com/Athens/9479/platt.html?20065#hol>. It is also used in communities in Eastern Europe, Siberia, Central Asia and the Americas, especially by Mennonites. The term Low Saxon [/Nedersaksisch/] is to preferred over Low German. The name goes back to a time when the speakers regarded themselves as being Saxons and their language Saxon. Until recently, the official line was that the Low Saxon dialects of Germany were German ones and that the ones used in the Netherlands were Dutch dialects, and they had a low social status. Official recognition as a regional language was recently granted in Germany, the Netherlands and on the European Community level. Although Low Saxon has a long literary history, there is no standard language and orthography so far, due to official oppression and neglect until now. The resulting dialectal fragmentation in conjunction with a lack of collaboration across the German-Netherlands border is a great threat to the survival of the language. " I could go on but, 'nuff said. Cheers, Masugu (not Masuga!) P.S. Let's not belabor this issue on site. If you want to continue this discussion please use my personal address.

Hi Folks; Just an FYI in case you weren't aware of it: a group of professional genealogists at the Family History Library has put together a "Palatine Project" (www.progenealogists.com/palproject/) which includes some pretty good poop on early German immigration. Their opening blurb reads: "The Palatine Project--Reconstructed Passenger Lists, 1683-1819 The Palatine Project is an ongoing effort, using sources from German speaking countries as well as early colonial American sources, to annotate and/or reconstruct the passenger lists of Germans who came to America in the first large wave of emigration in the 18th century. These annotated lists will provide a "bridging the gap" tool for identifying the original emigrants to America while identifying sources that indicate where they came from in their ancestral country. This is an ambitious project and will require many years. Its success will depend on contributions of information, finances, and other assistance from the public and genealogical communities." They go on to say: "Although the primary project initially will be to annotate the passenger lists of the Pennsylvania German Pioneers identified in Strassburger and Hinki's 1727-1808 lists, we plan to eventually annotate and reconstruct (where necessary) lists for New England, Nova Scotia, New York, Virginia, Georgia, Louisiana, Maryland, North Carolina, and South Carolina German settlements as well." Cheers, Masugu