Marvin and Ursula and Anyone else who wants to read this As you all have been reading about my husbands family , you know that the Lutheran faith was very important to them. We didn't understand until just lately how important. Harold's Great-grandfather helped to start the church in Manistee, Mi and when he came to Missouri helped to start the one in Friestat, Mo. He tried to start a church in Billings, Mo the "Kirhenbuch de Evangelisch Lutherischen Zions-Gemeinde, Ungeanderter Angsburgischer Konfession, zu- Billings, Christian Co. Mo. I copied the words from the book we have as a copy in our family. This church did not last ling but the one in Friestat did. The church in Billings is of the United Churches of Christ now. We do not go there but for some wonderful special services that Harold is asked to sing in German for the people. Now back to the Lutheran faith. Harold always wondered why a German farmer would send his only son the the Lutheran school in a town where he would have to stay and not get to help on the farm. We now know that the Lutheran faith was very important to them.Praise the Lord for that. Sorry to go on so long but when in genealogy you find something that makes sense and helps you to understand your ancestors you like to share it. Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Huggins" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons > It is sometimes difficult for people in the United States, who have > grown up with such a wide variety of Christian denominations to > understand the German situation. The term "Protestant" or "Evangelish" > in German encompasses anyone not a Roman Catholic. But the Protestant > family in Germany did include two diverse confessional strains--the > Lutheran and the Reformed, the latter following the theology of John > Calvin and his circle. Religious confession and political allegiance > were mixed together under a principle that the faith of the ruler of a > territory determined the official confessional faith of a territory. And > the Reformed were very much a minority, so few territories officially > followed that tradition. For the most part an area was either Lutheran > or Roman Catholic. There were also groups then called Anabaptists--today > represented by such traditions a Mennonites and Amish--who were found in > German territories but never had a ruler give them legitimacy and often > suffered various levels of persecution. > > Individual churches in the Lutheran or Protestant areas might follow > either the Lutheran or the Reformed confessions and such differences > were more or less tolerated. However, in 1817 Frederick William III, > king of Prussia, himself a follower of the Reformed confession while his > wife was a Lutheran, sought to force the churches in Prussia, the > largest of the German territories, to follow one combined formula in > worship with wording, for example, in the liturgy for the distribution > of Holy Communion that was ambiguous so that both Lutherans and Reformed > could interpret it according to their differing understandings. Some > Lutherans resisted this. That's the origin of the term "altlutherisch" > or "Altlutheraner." In some areas these pastors were removed from their > parishes and even put into prison for resisting the king's decrees. As a > result, there were several movements of pastors and members of their > congregations to the U.S. and to Australia. The largest groups settled > in western New York and in Wisconsin. Primarily the Wisconsin and the > former Buffalo Synod were formed from these groups, but also the > Missouri Synod held strongly to this Lutheran confessional position and > readily received "old Lutherans" from Prussia into its congregations. > > Present-day Lutheran churches in the U.S. come from a much broader > series of traditions that have gradually merged with the followers of > the "Old Lutheran" tradition. They include the descendants of the large > Lutheran population that came to America in the colonial period and > settled along the east coast, especially heavily in the Carolinas, > Pennsylvania, Maryland and New York and gradually spreading west in the > 19th century. Another large component of the present Lutheran tradition > consists of churches of Scandinavian heritage, and they came from a > broad spectrum of attitudes and levels of commitment to the Lutheran > confessional tradition. > > It's a very complex story! And the response of the lady you mentioned is > certainly how many today perceive the religious tradition of their > families. There might even be some whose ancestors were members of one > of those Evangelical Synod congregations we discussed earlier who would > make that claim about their family. > > Marvin > > > > Ursula wrote: >> Marvin, >> >> Thank you again for providing us with a cornucopia of church related >> information! >> I'm so glad you've responded to our plea for clarification. >> >> Talk about people being confused. >> I had mentioned one time on this forum that when I grew up in Germany >> there were only two major religious confessions in Germany, Catholic and >> Protestant, with the Evangelical-Lutherans being counted among the >> Protestants. >> Some lady responded that her ancestors were Lutherans and that they would >> turn over in their grave if someone had called them Protestants.:) >> >> This thread started with the "Altlutheraner" and before closing the >> subject I have one more question. >> Am I to assume that the present day "Lutheran" churches sprang from the >> "Altlutheraner"? >> I'm asking because pastor Gerhard Doroh of St. Peter's Lutheran Church in >> Richmond, MI asked me once if I knew about the German Lutherans [I assume >> he referred to the Altlutheraner] who at one time had been persecuted, >> even killed, and driven out of the country. At the time I had not heard >> about the Altlutheran in Germany or in the US and I thought he was >> talking about medievil times. I then began looking into the history of >> the Altlutheraner when I found out that this occured between 1835 and >> 1854, actually not that long ago. >> >> Happy New Year to all, >> >> Ursula >> >> <<all previous posts have been removed>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marvin Huggins" <[email protected]> >> To: "Ursula" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 12:12:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons >> >> Ursula, >> >> The "Evangelical Calendar" about which you ask reflects another aspect of >> the confusion many have with identifying and locating the right >> congregation with records of their ancestors. >> >> The "Deutsche Evangelische Synode von Nordamerika" developed out of the >> "Kirchenverein des Westens," which was organized about the same time as >> the Missouri Synod and the other midwestern Lutheran church bodies like >> the Wisconsin and Iowa synods. And it also happened to be centered in >> Saint Louis, which compounds the confusion. The Evangelical Synod (for >> short) is an American reflection of the Prussian Union churches from >> Germany with a mixture of Lutheran and Reformed confessional allegiances. >> It was at odds with the Missouri Synod, which stood on a strict adherence >> to the Lutheran Confessions in the Book of Concord of 1580. >> >> >> For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: >> http://www.germanyroots.com >> >> Please visit and participate in our new forum >> http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >