Susan, Betty, Hesse-Nassau was NOT Prussia before 1868. Georg Susan Clark schrieb: >A Prussian could be a German, but not all Germans were Prussians. I don't >think Hesse-Nassau was part of Prussia, but that's just a guess. > >Susan > >----- Original Message ----- >From: <Bbfritch@aol.com> >To: <germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:44 PM >Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Prussia > > > > >>Thanks, Susan. I learn something every day. I guess I should have known >>that , but I don't remember everything I read and seeing maps from >>different >>years helps confuse me. Prussia used to look really big, now I wonder if >>what >>is see is really "Prussia.," or what the large area of old Prussia is >>now >>called. >> >>My ancestor who came from Prussia 1851 was listed as German some of the >>time. Is that a misnomer? Is/was Hesse-Nassau part of Prussia? That's >>where I >>have been looking for him because that's the only Fritsch that fit the >>time >>in the passenger lists. >> >>Betty >>FL >> >>Betty, >> >>Germany wasn't united as a country until 1871. Up until then, it was >>divided into duchies of various sizes (Saxony, Hesse-Darmstadt, Bavaria) >>plus the kingdom of Prussia (perhaps others were considered kingdoms, but >>I >>don't think so). Otto von Bismarck, advisor to the Prussian king, >>engineered the unification of Germany in 1871, but I think it was a while >>before people considered themselves Germans. >> >>Susan >> >> >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' >>without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >
Thanks, Wolf. I've been there... Betty, just go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia this will tell you just about everything from prussia.. Good luck, Wolf [Zscheile]
Jane, I found this to be true too. I had been searching for my Great- Great Grandfather, MAXIMILIAN (MAX) HARTER. I finally found him in one of the censuses as MAY HARTER.The info all matched. The X really could have passed as a Y. By the way, could still use some help in finding a marriage date/place for Max Harter and Theresia(Theresa)Keelley.Keelley is the name listed on her death cert, which I have. It was pronounced KELLEY. But that seems to be an Irish name and she was from Germany.Her fathers name was Fred. Did not list mothers name, but both were from Germany. I beleive Theresia's last name may be KALLE. I have tried many different spellings and this is the only name that may be a match that I have found. Am attaching a death cert of Theresia Harter. If anyone can decipher the birthplace and can point me in the right direction to possbly get a birth cert, I would greatly appreciate it!!!!!!!!! Also, the ship she sailed on. Max was born on May29, 1835 in Onsbach, Achern, Baden, Germany. Came to the USA in 1857. He was a bootmaker/shoemaker. He lived in NYC as far as I can tell until 1869 when he came to live in Lena, IL. Where he and Theresia and most of there children lived til they died. Max and Theresia had 6 children. 3 born in NY. Charles OTTO Mar 17, 1859, Charles W 1862, Mary(my Great grandmother) Mar 14, 1864. 3 children born in Lena Il. Theresa S 1869, William A 1872, and Fredrick Aug 18, 1874. I have Max in the 1860 census living in NYC with a Gebhardt. No Theresia or family yet. Believe Otto was born out of wedlock since his birth is listed as 1859(I have his death cert.) I have a copy of Max's petition for naturalization. Iknow the family was in Lena, IL (Stephenson County in 1869, book in the Lena Library has him owning a shoe store at that time, also listed in every census here til his death in 1920. Theresia deied in 1912. In one census Theresia is listed as EUNICE. Any help in obtaing marraige date/place and birth certs of 3 oldest children would be most appreciated!!!!! Thanks!!! Ramona(Harter) Wehinger wehinger@centurytel.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Rasmussen" <janeluci@bresnan.net> To: <germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 11:44 AM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Names arn't a name if not spelled right. > >>> Also the folks over in Ancestry often goof up names. I found my >>> grandfather by going through the census for the community by going >>> through it page by page. > Jane >>> >> >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.394 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
Frank or anyone, I need an overlay map that would show what the names of countries are now that were in the old Prussia (1835-1850). Know where I might find that? Betty FL B Prussia and Germany were two different countries only on the same land. Prussia extended from Russia to France and very wide that was before it was Germany. Frank
Good morning list. Could anyone tell me some information on the church in Arle, Ostfriesland, Germany. Can I get in touch with any one connected to the church to see about baptismal records, etc. I'm in search of the Wilberts family. Thank you.... C&C
Betty, just go to: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussia this will tell you just about everything from prussia.. Good luck, Wolf [Zscheile] ******************************************** Visit our homepage with ALL the latest NEWS http://www.saxonyroots.com ******************************************** > -----Original Message----- > From: germany-passenger-lists-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:germany-passenger-lists-bounces@rootsweb.com] On > Behalf Of Bbfritch@aol.com > Sent: Sunday, September 10, 2006 8:29 AM > To: germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Prussia > > > > Frank or anyone, I need an overlay map that would show what > the names of > countries are now that were in the old Prussia (1835-1850). > Know where I might > find that? > > Betty > FL -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.12.2/442 - Release Date: 9/8/2006
Ursala, will you clarify these for me: Hesse Hessen-Darmstadt Hessen-Nassau Thanks, Betty FL Joanne, I knew the town my g grandfather Ludwig Grimm was from as I had a copy of his passport from 1849. After figuring out where the town was, I joined the Hesse list through Rootsweb and found out the parish, which was Bernsberg. The Family History Library (familysearch.org) has their catalog online, so you can search by location, scan down to church records, then be sure to view the film notes as these tell you what years they have along with what records, i.e., birth, baptism, etc. Once I did all that, I made a little trip over to Salt Lake City and spent two days at the library. I could have ordered the films through the local Family History Center, there are many all over the country, also listed at the website. But I don't read German, and while I was certain I would recognize the surname in the index films, once I retrieved the record would not know what I was looking at. That's where the amazing translators on the International floor of the library come in, they translate the record for you. The church records are amazing. Ludwig's birth record told what order in the family of children he was (fourth child, first son), his parents, the witness to the birth, his godfather, etc. His marriage record told his parents names, the bride's parents names, his occupation and the witnesses. Death records list spouses, parents, cause of death and so on. Quite informative! They even made a notation of when Ludwig and children left for America. So well worth the effort! Hope this helps! Susan In a message dated 9/9/06 9:43:44 AM, jcsmitty1212@yahoo.com writes: > Susan: > > Could you please tell me more about the church records in Hesse Darmstadt > you found? Where did you find them, and can you offer some tips on looking > for an ancestor once you've identified the province? > > I have an ancestor from that area as well. I believe he was probably > Lutheran. Is there an online source anywhere of Lutheran churches in HD? > > Sounds like you've made terrific progress. > > Joanne >
B Prussia and Germany were two different countries only on the same land. Prussia extended from Russia to France and very wide that was before it was Germany. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bbfritch@aol.com> To: <germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:42 PM Subject: [G-P-L] Prussia > > I thought Prussia was part of Germany? This correspondence sounds as if > they are two different countries?? > > Betty > FL > > Susan: > > I apologize!!!!!!! > > I was able to magnify the image you sent me, and it seems as if someone drew > some sort of parenthesis above and below the word "Germany" to indicate > which passengers are which. Thank you so much for pointing this out to me or I > would have contnued believing she was from Prussia. > > These lists are about as clear as mud! Very hard to decipher. > > Still, I'd be interested to see if Ger to Am has a code next to her name--or > even if that particular passenger list was transcribed. > > Thanks for going to so much trouble for me. I appreciate it very much! > > Joanne > > Susan Clark <susan.g.clark@comcast.net> wrote: > Joanne, > > Some lists do give more specific info on the place in Germany a person was > from, but many don't. I haven't looked at Germans to America for a while, > but I suspect it doesn't give specific codes for everyone. Someone more > familiar than me with the series could say if this was the case or not. > > I'll send you the original image I found so that you can look at it. > > Susan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joanne Schmidt" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Germans to America --response to Susan > > > > Maybe I need to go back and look again, Susan. I would have sworn that > > there was a ditto mark next to her name indicating she, like the > > passengers immediately ahead of her on the list, was from Prussia. But it > > wouldn't be the first time I misread something. > > > > I do have a general question for those expert in the Germans to America > > Series: if the information provided on passengers listed in Ancestry is no > > less than that found in the G to A series, then where does the latter get > > the info that goes in the codes. (E.G., HD000 with the HD representing > > Hesse Darmstadt and the number next to it indicating the town in the code > > list at the front of each volume?) > > > > Please forgive my ignorance if everybody already knows the answer to > > this. I'm still feeling my way along and learning as I go. It would help > > me tremendously if I understood how the various sources assemble their > > info and who copies from who. > > > > Joanne > > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
Hello: Not having read the history of Prussia yet and just catching your statement -- is the 'P' placed in front of 'russia' to mean/stand for Paris, France? I will have to read history re the name Prussia since I've stirred my own curiosity at that - <g>. Regards, --Manaia Frank Brehm <nikomahs@bellsouth.net> wrote: B Prussia and Germany were two different countries only on the same land. Prussia extended from Russia to France and very wide that was before it was Germany. Frank ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 4:42 PM Subject: [G-P-L] Prussia > > I thought Prussia was part of Germany? This correspondence sounds as if > they are two different countries?? > > Betty > FL > > Susan: --------------------------------- How low will we go? Check out Yahoo! Messengers low PC-to-Phone call rates.
Is it possible that she had the date wrong and this might be her arriving at Ellis Island? You can look at it yourself at ellisisland.org First Name: Regina Last Name: Ozga Ethnicity: Austrian Last Place of Residence: Jaszczurowce Date of Arrival: May 23, 1899 Age at Arrival: 33y Gender: F Marital Status: W Ship of Travel: Fredrich der Grosse Port of Departure: Bremen Manifest Line Number: 0020
My great grandfather served in the three month troops, for exactly three months. He mustered out in 1862 and shortly after returned to Germany to marry, but thought it interesting that he got a passport before leaving, of which I have a copy. Even though he came at the age of nine, and his father naturalized, he still had to swear allegiance before leaving for a temporary stay in Germany and Switzerland. Susan In a message dated 9/9/06 9:46:15 AM, jcsmitty1212@yahoo.com writes: > That's very interesting. My great grandfather was born in British Guiana of > English parents, and he served in the American Civil War after the family > emigrated to New York. I always wondered if he did so for ideological reasons, > but now you've given me another reason to think about. > > Joanne > > Jane Rasmussen <janeluci@bresnan.net> wrote: > A ggrandfather,age 32 with wife and 3 children, homesteading in WI > also joined as a volunteer in the last year of civil war, I think it > may have been due to the large bonus they were handing out to > volunteers. > Jane >
Joanne, I knew the town my g grandfather Ludwig Grimm was from as I had a copy of his passport from 1849. After figuring out where the town was, I joined the Hesse list through Rootsweb and found out the parish, which was Bernsberg. The Family History Library (familysearch.org) has their catalog online, so you can search by location, scan down to church records, then be sure to view the film notes as these tell you what years they have along with what records, i.e., birth, baptism, etc. Once I did all that, I made a little trip over to Salt Lake City and spent two days at the library. I could have ordered the films through the local Family History Center, there are many all over the country, also listed at the website. But I don't read German, and while I was certain I would recognize the surname in the index films, once I retrieved the record would not know what I was looking at. That's where the amazing translators on the International floor of the library come in, they translate the record for you. The church records are amazing. Ludwig's birth record told what order in the family of children he was (fourth child, first son), his parents, the witness to the birth, his godfather, etc. His marriage record told his parents names, the bride's parents names, his occupation and the witnesses. Death records list spouses, parents, cause of death and so on. Quite informative! They even made a notation of when Ludwig and children left for America. So well worth the effort! Hope this helps! Susan In a message dated 9/9/06 9:43:44 AM, jcsmitty1212@yahoo.com writes: > Susan: > > Could you please tell me more about the church records in Hesse Darmstadt > you found? Where did you find them, and can you offer some tips on looking > for an ancestor once you've identified the province? > > I have an ancestor from that area as well. I believe he was probably > Lutheran. Is there an online source anywhere of Lutheran churches in HD? > > Sounds like you've made terrific progress. > > Joanne >
Hi, Just a remark, my grandfather came from the area north of Stuttgart. He never considered himself German, said we were not German we were Swabish. He arrived here in 1886 at the age of 17. Was Swabia (sp.) a dutchie or what was it. drbjugan@juno.com Darleen
Dear list, Am trying to find Gene Bierly as I have not been able to contact him at his e-mail address. I have cemetery pictures for him. Would appreciate help finding him. Donna North Lawrence, Ohio
Ursula, Regarding your > ".... If the manifest says 'PRUSSIA' (and you have read up on its history and the countries that were part of Prussia when your ancestor immigrated), then, depending on the year of immigration, it excludes those states that were not part of Prussia, e.g. Mecklenburg-Schwerin & Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Hessen, and others". In the way of clarification. Am I correct in my thinking that Wuerttemberg was NOT a part of Prussia ca. 1850s or ever, for that matter? What about the state "Mecklenburg-Vorpommern" was that excluded from Prussia, as well? Thank you, Bette
A Prussian could be a German, but not all Germans were Prussians. I don't think Hesse-Nassau was part of Prussia, but that's just a guess. Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: <Bbfritch@aol.com> To: <germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Prussia > > Thanks, Susan. I learn something every day. I guess I should have known > that , but I don't remember everything I read and seeing maps from > different > years helps confuse me. Prussia used to look really big, now I wonder if > what > is see is really "Prussia.," or what the large area of old Prussia is > now > called. > > My ancestor who came from Prussia 1851 was listed as German some of the > time. Is that a misnomer? Is/was Hesse-Nassau part of Prussia? That's > where I > have been looking for him because that's the only Fritsch that fit the > time > in the passenger lists. > > Betty > FL > > Betty, > > Germany wasn't united as a country until 1871. Up until then, it was > divided into duchies of various sizes (Saxony, Hesse-Darmstadt, Bavaria) > plus the kingdom of Prussia (perhaps others were considered kingdoms, but > I > don't think so). Otto von Bismarck, advisor to the Prussian king, > engineered the unification of Germany in 1871, but I think it was a while > before people considered themselves Germans. > > Susan > > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >
This was very useful to me, Ursula. Do you know if the departure records for Amsterdam still exist? Susan ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ursula B. Adamson" <ubatrans@klondyke.net> To: <germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:19 PM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] GTA vs Records submitted to Customs To all who are confused about GTA and other Passenger Lists. Please allow me to take a stab at explaining to you the difference between Passenger Ships Lists. 1) First of all, there are different Passenger Lists namely the DEPARTURE Lists for the Port from which the emigrant (with an 'e') left; these DEPARTURE lists were issed at the Port of HAMBURG or at the Port of BREMEN (Liverpool, or what-have-you). The DEPARTURE lists are the most complete and accurate of all passenger ship lists because they were recorded by German-speaking clerks in the language of the emigrant. These lists contain the name, age, profession, hometown, and destination of each passenger. The DEPARTURE Lists for the Port of BREMEN are no longer available (were destroyed because of space constraints at the shipping companies where they were housed). The DEPARTURE Lists for the Port of HAMBURG are available on microfilm at your local FHC. If you're one of the lucky ones whose ancestor came through Hamburg then these are the lists you want to research. Because the DEPARTURE Lists for Bremen are gone, GTA and others are using the ARRIVAL Lists, which were recorded upon an immigrants arrival in the US (most often these had been copied by hand using the Departure list as a reference) for submission to the NY customs authorities. 2) Then there are the ARRIVAL lists that were prepared upon the immigrants (with 'i') arrival at the US Port. These lists were prepared by English-speaking clerks in that they (as previously mentioned) copied the info from the German Departure list for submission to the New York Customs Authority for payment of the so-called 'head tax'. Because the ARRIVAL lists were issued by non-German speaking clerks they are often fraught with spelling errors and quite often do not contain the same information as was on the original manifest. You must realize that as the daily flood of immigrants increased - especially around 1880 - and the number of passengers on any given ship grew into the hundreds, the clerks didn't waste much time and only copied the data that was absolutely essential for submission to the authorities. 3) Re: Germans-to-America Series. The data extracted by this intrepid group of transcribers was taken exclusively from Passenger ARRIVAL lists (the ones recorded by Americans). In only the rarest of cases will it give the place (town) of origin. In some cases you will find reference to Hesse-Darmstadt, Hesse-Cassel, Hesse-Homburg, Saxony, Baden-Württemberg, Bavaria etc. While these published volumes cover almost 40+ years of immigration, they contain only a very small percentage of all immigrant ships arriving in America!! Because the GTA series has gotten very bad reviews especially by German researchers for its lack of completeness and inaccuracies, one should use the series only as a reference! So when any of you assume you will find more accurate or complete info at GTA than on the 'orignal handwritten manifest', you seriously mistaken! The same caution should be exercised when searching the passenger lists transcribed by the many other organizations -- they all have one thing in common - American-speaking transcribers, unfamiliarity with common German names, misspelled names, omissions because of the poor legibility of the original data and just plain human error. If you have a choice, you should always look for the 'handwritten' manifest or at least compare the info against the 'printed one' available at Genealogy.com or Ancestry.com. And as if there weren't enough errors in anyone of them, I have come across cases where there are differences in these two on-line services as well - often misread names, indexing errors, etc. Now that Ancestry.com has a large number of the 'original manifests' available on line, I can't see any reason why anybody would even bother with GTA since they are only transcriptions. Re: Country of Origin: GERMANY vs PRUSSIA. The worst thing that can happen to you is to find the country of origin defined as "GERMANY" as it covers any and all of the German states. If the manifest says 'PRUSSIA' (and you have read up on its history and the countries that were part of Prussia when your ancestor immigrated), then, depending on the year of immigration, it excludes those states that were not part of Prussia, e.g. Mecklenburg-Schwerin & Mecklenburg-Strelitz, Hessen, and others. I hope that this little ditty has cleared up some of the confusion over passenger lists. Happy hunting, Ursula Joanne Schmidt wrote: > Susan: > > I apologize!!!!!!! > > I was able to magnify the image you sent me, and it seems as if someone > drew some sort of parenthesis above and below the word "Germany" to > indicate which passengers are which. Thank you so much for pointing this > out to me or I would have contnued believing she was from Prussia. > > These lists are about as clear as mud! Very hard to decipher. > > Still, I'd be interested to see if Ger to Am has a code next to her > name--or even if that particular passenger list was transcribed. > > Thanks for going to so much trouble for me. I appreciate it very much! > > Joanne > > Susan Clark <susan.g.clark@comcast.net> wrote: > Joanne, > > Some lists do give more specific info on the place in Germany a person was > from, but many don't. I haven't looked at Germans to America for a while, > but I suspect it doesn't give specific codes for everyone. Someone more > familiar than me with the series could say if this was the case or not. > > I'll send you the original image I found so that you can look at it. > > Susan > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Joanne Schmidt" > To: > Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 12:13 PM > Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Germans to America --response to Susan > > > >>Maybe I need to go back and look again, Susan. I would have sworn that >>there was a ditto mark next to her name indicating she, like the >>passengers immediately ahead of her on the list, was from Prussia. But it >>wouldn't be the first time I misread something. >> >>I do have a general question for those expert in the Germans to America >>Series: if the information provided on passengers listed in Ancestry is no >>less than that found in the G to A series, then where does the latter get >>the info that goes in the codes. (E.G., HD000 with the HD representing >>Hesse Darmstadt and the number next to it indicating the town in the code >>list at the front of each volume?) >> >>Please forgive my ignorance if everybody already knows the answer to >>this. I'm still feeling my way along and learning as I go. It would help >>me tremendously if I understood how the various sources assemble their >>info and who copies from who. >> >>Joanne > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail. > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > . > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message
Thanks, Susan. I learn something every day. I guess I should have known that , but I don't remember everything I read and seeing maps from different years helps confuse me. Prussia used to look really big, now I wonder if what is see is really "Prussia.," or what the large area of old Prussia is now called. My ancestor who came from Prussia 1851 was listed as German some of the time. Is that a misnomer? Is/was Hesse-Nassau part of Prussia? That's where I have been looking for him because that's the only Fritsch that fit the time in the passenger lists. Betty FL Betty, Germany wasn't united as a country until 1871. Up until then, it was divided into duchies of various sizes (Saxony, Hesse-Darmstadt, Bavaria) plus the kingdom of Prussia (perhaps others were considered kingdoms, but I don't think so). Otto von Bismarck, advisor to the Prussian king, engineered the unification of Germany in 1871, but I think it was a while before people considered themselves Germans. Susan
----- Original Message ----- From: "Ursula B. Adamson" <ubatrans@klondyke.net> To: <germany-passenger-lists@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, September 09, 2006 6:33 PM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Prussia Susan, while it's true that Germany didn't became 'Germany' until 1871, the german people have always been 'German' regardless whether they came from Prussia, Mecklenburg, Bavaria or Baden-Württemberg. Ursula Susan Clark wrote: > Betty, > > Germany wasn't united as a country until 1871. Up until then, it was > divided into duchies of various sizes (Saxony, Hesse-Darmstadt, Bavaria) > plus the kingdom of Prussia (perhaps others were considered kingdoms, but > I > don't think so). Otto von Bismarck, advisor to the Prussian king, > engineered the unification of Germany in 1871, but I think it was a while ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to GERMANY-PASSENGER-LISTS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.405 / Virus Database: 268.11.7/437 - Release Date: 9/4/2006
Susan, while it's true that Germany didn't became 'Germany' until 1871, the german people have always been 'German' regardless whether they came from Prussia, Mecklenburg, Bavaria or Baden-Württemberg. Ursula Susan Clark wrote: > Betty, > > Germany wasn't united as a country until 1871. Up until then, it was > divided into duchies of various sizes (Saxony, Hesse-Darmstadt, Bavaria) > plus the kingdom of Prussia (perhaps others were considered kingdoms, but I > don't think so). Otto von Bismarck, advisor to the Prussian king, > engineered the unification of Germany in 1871, but I think it was a while