Wow, I missed this first part. I am from Hennepin County and know most of the Lucht family that lived there in the 40's and 50's and 60's. They attended dist 46, a one room country school, and one of the Lucht families housed the teacher until about 1945. James, that school was on the southwest tip of Fish Lake. I also have been friends with some of the Kallk family from the Rogers or corcorn area. Chances are they attended the German Lutheran Church right on 101, as it was the oldest Lutheran Church around, I have school records, and baptism and confirmation records from the very early years. contact me off the list at [email protected] -------------------------------------------------- From: "Ursula" <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 3:34 AM To: <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lucht Immigration > > James, > > You must understand that immigrants as a whole were not all that concerned > when it came to accuracy of the information they provided to officials. > Many immigrants were suspicious of anyone wanting to obtain personal > information from them. On the other hand it continues to surprise me why > they would not only remember the year, but the also the month and exact > date that they arrived in the US as this must have been a major milestone > in their life. Yet, it happens more often than not. Regarding the > immigration dates given on censuses, there was often a misunderstanding > about the question being asked [language problem]or - in later years - > they confused the immigration year with the year of naturalization. Hence, > the different dates. Often the information was provided by one of the > children when the parents were not at home when the census taker called. > > In the case of your ancestor, Gottfried Lucht and his family appear for > the first time on the 1880 Federal Census in Corcoran, Hennepin Co., MN. > Here are the details: > > Lucht, Gottfried, 34, b. Prussia > .......Wilhelmine, 34 b. Prussia > .......Hulda, 7 b. Prussia > .......Herman, 3 b. MN > .......George, 2, b. MN > .......John, 3 months, b. MN > > On the 1885 State Census they are shown as follows: > > Lucht, Gottfried, 38 b. Prussia > .......Mena, 42, b. Prussia > .......Hulda, 13, b. MN [??] > .......Herman 8, b. MN > .......George 6, b. MN > .......William 5, b. MN > .......Henry, 6 months. > > On the 1900 Federal Census, Dayton Twp., Hennepin Co., they are shown as > follows: > > Lucht, Gottfried, 55 [b. Mar 1845] you wrote 1847! marr. 28 years, immigr. > 1874, PA=permanent resident* > .......Mena, 59 [b. Oct 1840] you wrote 1845!, mother of 6, 5 living; > .......Hulda, 26 [b. April 1874] Germany!! > .......Herman, 23 [b. Sep 1876] in MN > .......George, 19 [b. Sep 1880] in MN > .......Willie, 18 [b. Apr 1882] in MN > .......Henry, 15 [b. Oct 1884] in MN > > On the 1910 Federal census, Gottfried, now widowed and residing with one > of his sons, claims that he came in 1877. > We know that 1877 can't be true since son Herman was born Sep 1876 in > Minnesota. > It's hard to say whether Gottfried was naturalized at all. Generally, one > had to have lived in the US for at least five years before one could be > naturalized. Many immigrants filed their first papers as soon as they came > to the US but then didn't follow up five year later to apply for > naturalization. This meant they were considered permanent residents but > not citizens of the US. There is no law that requires an immigrant to > become naturalized, he can live and die in this country without ever > having become a citizen. > > If Hulda's DOB is correct, the family would have immigrated after April > 1874 but before September 1876 [Herman's DOB]. > > I checked the passenger lists but could not find the family on any list. > I hope this clears up some of the questions you had. > > Ursula > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "james" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 12:47:57 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: [G-P-L] Lucht Immigration > > Hello lister group. I have a new years challenge. I am family historian > and genealogist for the Lucht, Kalk(e), Finke, Krone and other names in > our > family. I am trying to find out information on my great grand father > Gottfried Lucht (b. abt. Mar 1847) and his wife Wilhelmina (Meyer b. abt. > 1845 date depending on which census a person is looking at) Lucht. > > According to 1900 US Census (Dayton township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, > sheet 6, line 1 and 2) shows 1874 as immigration date and naturalized in > PA > (Pennsylvania ?) What I need to know is any verbage or ,jpg of > naturalization papers, immigration from (old family members said they came > from Luebgust, Pommerania, Prussia? Ship name? Probably travel to US > with > Charley Meyer family. > > Another bit of information is according to 1910 US Census (Corcoran > township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 4A, line 18) shows 1877 as > arrival date. Did he travel back to Germany (who knows) and give a new > date > or what? ship? Why did he say two arrival dates on two different census' > dates? > > > Any information found out would add to our family history. I'm at a road > block. > > Thanks for any help, > James Lucht > > > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Ursula, thank u for your input. James -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ursula Sent: Monday, January 04, 2010 1:35 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lucht Immigration James, You must understand that immigrants as a whole were not all that concerned when it came to accuracy of the information they provided to officials. Many immigrants were suspicious of anyone wanting to obtain personal information from them. On the other hand it continues to surprise me why they would not only remember the year, but the also the month and exact date that they arrived in the US as this must have been a major milestone in their life. Yet, it happens more often than not. Regarding the immigration dates given on censuses, there was often a misunderstanding about the question being asked [language problem]or - in later years - they confused the immigration year with the year of naturalization. Hence, the different dates. Often the information was provided by one of the children when the parents were not at home when the census taker called. In the case of your ancestor, Gottfried Lucht and his family appear for the first time on the 1880 Federal Census in Corcoran, Hennepin Co., MN. Here are the details: Lucht, Gottfried, 34, b. Prussia .......Wilhelmine, 34 b. Prussia .......Hulda, 7 b. Prussia .......Herman, 3 b. MN .......George, 2, b. MN .......John, 3 months, b. MN On the 1885 State Census they are shown as follows: Lucht, Gottfried, 38 b. Prussia .......Mena, 42, b. Prussia .......Hulda, 13, b. MN [??] .......Herman 8, b. MN .......George 6, b. MN .......William 5, b. MN .......Henry, 6 months. On the 1900 Federal Census, Dayton Twp., Hennepin Co., they are shown as follows: Lucht, Gottfried, 55 [b. Mar 1845] you wrote 1847! marr. 28 years, immigr. 1874, PA=permanent resident* .......Mena, 59 [b. Oct 1840] you wrote 1845!, mother of 6, 5 living; .......Hulda, 26 [b. April 1874] Germany!! .......Herman, 23 [b. Sep 1876] in MN .......George, 19 [b. Sep 1880] in MN .......Willie, 18 [b. Apr 1882] in MN .......Henry, 15 [b. Oct 1884] in MN On the 1910 Federal census, Gottfried, now widowed and residing with one of his sons, claims that he came in 1877. We know that 1877 can't be true since son Herman was born Sep 1876 in Minnesota. It's hard to say whether Gottfried was naturalized at all. Generally, one had to have lived in the US for at least five years before one could be naturalized. Many immigrants filed their first papers as soon as they came to the US but then didn't follow up five year later to apply for naturalization. This meant they were considered permanent residents but not citizens of the US. There is no law that requires an immigrant to become naturalized, he can live and die in this country without ever having become a citizen. If Hulda's DOB is correct, the family would have immigrated after April 1874 but before September 1876 [Herman's DOB]. I checked the passenger lists but could not find the family on any list. I hope this clears up some of the questions you had. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: "james" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 12:47:57 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [G-P-L] Lucht Immigration Hello lister group. I have a new years challenge. I am family historian and genealogist for the Lucht, Kalk(e), Finke, Krone and other names in our family. I am trying to find out information on my great grand father Gottfried Lucht (b. abt. Mar 1847) and his wife Wilhelmina (Meyer b. abt. 1845 date depending on which census a person is looking at) Lucht. According to 1900 US Census (Dayton township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 6, line 1 and 2) shows 1874 as immigration date and naturalized in PA (Pennsylvania ?) What I need to know is any verbage or ,jpg of naturalization papers, immigration from (old family members said they came from Luebgust, Pommerania, Prussia? Ship name? Probably travel to US with Charley Meyer family. Another bit of information is according to 1910 US Census (Corcoran township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 4A, line 18) shows 1877 as arrival date. Did he travel back to Germany (who knows) and give a new date or what? ship? Why did he say two arrival dates on two different census' dates? Any information found out would add to our family history. I'm at a road block. Thanks for any help, James Lucht For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Ursula, Your surprise at the immigrant not knowing the exact time he/she arrived made me think about a possible answer. As I see it, there was a period at departure where everything was in flux since there were so many regulations to follow, and there was the bureaucracy to satisfy. Then they probably did not sail immediately after boarding ship. Then there were the many days at sea where one has great difficulty keeping track of the day of the week, not only the day, month, and year. Upon arrival at the port of destination, there was no guarantee that they would debark the same day as they arrived. Upon debarkation they would face in reverse all that they had gone through when leaving, dealing with another bureaucracy. Finally they would be free to travel to their final destination, where they might or might not have someone waiting for them to help them with the problems of settling in where the language was different, the customs were different, and even size and extent of the land was different. Which day would be the "official" day of arrival? When I think about it, it amazes me that they could come close to the correct day, month, and year. I came home from a period of duty in the service in Germany, but I would not be able to remember just when that was. But I was immediately discharged from the medical corps, and that day I have no difficulty remembering. I believe that for many of our ancestors, arriving at a place that would not change the next day was so satisfying that they would just breathe a deep sigh of relief and try to get on with the problems of day to day living. They probably did not realize that one day one of their descendants would try to pin the date down to the exact moment to fit into a genealogy program. I was lucky with my maternal grandparents. They arrived in Canada, and then crossed over into the United States at Detroit. This was their official date of arrival in the USA. But the exact date of arrival in Canada depends on ship lists that each have their own rules for entering the date. Add to all this the other things you mentioned, and an "about" date is really a terrific find! And after all, the year is really only a number! Thanks for making me think about what my ancestors endured just to make a better life for themselves and their descendants. I really need to count my blessings more frequently. Gene Eugene M. Wiese 838 Linlawn Drive Wabash, IN 46992-3903 [email protected] (260) 846-0516 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ursula" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: 04 January, 2010 4:34 AM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lucht Immigration > > James, > > You must understand that immigrants as a whole were not all that concerned > when it came to accuracy of the information they provided to officials. > Many immigrants were suspicious of anyone wanting to obtain personal > information from them. On the other hand it continues to surprise me why > they would not only remember the year, but the also the month and exact > date that they arrived in the US as this must have been a major milestone > in their life. Yet, it happens more often than not. Regarding the > immigration dates given on censuses, there was often a misunderstanding > about the question being asked [language problem]or - in later years - > they confused the immigration year with the year of naturalization. Hence, > the different dates. Often the information was provided by one of the > children when the parents were not at home when the census taker called.

James, You must understand that immigrants as a whole were not all that concerned when it came to accuracy of the information they provided to officials. Many immigrants were suspicious of anyone wanting to obtain personal information from them. On the other hand it continues to surprise me why they would not only remember the year, but the also the month and exact date that they arrived in the US as this must have been a major milestone in their life. Yet, it happens more often than not. Regarding the immigration dates given on censuses, there was often a misunderstanding about the question being asked [language problem]or - in later years - they confused the immigration year with the year of naturalization. Hence, the different dates. Often the information was provided by one of the children when the parents were not at home when the census taker called. In the case of your ancestor, Gottfried Lucht and his family appear for the first time on the 1880 Federal Census in Corcoran, Hennepin Co., MN. Here are the details: Lucht, Gottfried, 34, b. Prussia .......Wilhelmine, 34 b. Prussia .......Hulda, 7 b. Prussia .......Herman, 3 b. MN .......George, 2, b. MN .......John, 3 months, b. MN On the 1885 State Census they are shown as follows: Lucht, Gottfried, 38 b. Prussia .......Mena, 42, b. Prussia .......Hulda, 13, b. MN [??] .......Herman 8, b. MN .......George 6, b. MN .......William 5, b. MN .......Henry, 6 months. On the 1900 Federal Census, Dayton Twp., Hennepin Co., they are shown as follows: Lucht, Gottfried, 55 [b. Mar 1845] you wrote 1847! marr. 28 years, immigr. 1874, PA=permanent resident* .......Mena, 59 [b. Oct 1840] you wrote 1845!, mother of 6, 5 living; .......Hulda, 26 [b. April 1874] Germany!! .......Herman, 23 [b. Sep 1876] in MN .......George, 19 [b. Sep 1880] in MN .......Willie, 18 [b. Apr 1882] in MN .......Henry, 15 [b. Oct 1884] in MN On the 1910 Federal census, Gottfried, now widowed and residing with one of his sons, claims that he came in 1877. We know that 1877 can't be true since son Herman was born Sep 1876 in Minnesota. It's hard to say whether Gottfried was naturalized at all. Generally, one had to have lived in the US for at least five years before one could be naturalized. Many immigrants filed their first papers as soon as they came to the US but then didn't follow up five year later to apply for naturalization. This meant they were considered permanent residents but not citizens of the US. There is no law that requires an immigrant to become naturalized, he can live and die in this country without ever having become a citizen. If Hulda's DOB is correct, the family would have immigrated after April 1874 but before September 1876 [Herman's DOB]. I checked the passenger lists but could not find the family on any list. I hope this clears up some of the questions you had. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: "james" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Monday, January 4, 2010 12:47:57 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [G-P-L] Lucht Immigration Hello lister group. I have a new years challenge. I am family historian and genealogist for the Lucht, Kalk(e), Finke, Krone and other names in our family. I am trying to find out information on my great grand father Gottfried Lucht (b. abt. Mar 1847) and his wife Wilhelmina (Meyer b. abt. 1845 date depending on which census a person is looking at) Lucht. According to 1900 US Census (Dayton township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 6, line 1 and 2) shows 1874 as immigration date and naturalized in PA (Pennsylvania ?) What I need to know is any verbage or ,jpg of naturalization papers, immigration from (old family members said they came from Luebgust, Pommerania, Prussia? Ship name? Probably travel to US with Charley Meyer family. Another bit of information is according to 1910 US Census (Corcoran township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 4A, line 18) shows 1877 as arrival date. Did he travel back to Germany (who knows) and give a new date or what? ship? Why did he say two arrival dates on two different census' dates? Any information found out would add to our family history. I'm at a road block. Thanks for any help, James Lucht For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello lister group. I have a new years challenge. I am family historian and genealogist for the Lucht, Kalk(e), Finke, Krone and other names in our family. I am trying to find out information on my great grand father Gottfried Lucht (b. abt. Mar 1847) and his wife Wilhelmina (Meyer b. abt. 1845 date depending on which census a person is looking at) Lucht. According to 1900 US Census (Dayton township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 6, line 1 and 2) shows 1874 as immigration date and naturalized in PA (Pennsylvania ?) What I need to know is any verbage or ,jpg of naturalization papers, immigration from (old family members said they came from Luebgust, Pommerania, Prussia? Ship name? Probably travel to US with Charley Meyer family. Another bit of information is according to 1910 US Census (Corcoran township, Hennepin county, Minnesota, sheet 4A, line 18) shows 1877 as arrival date. Did he travel back to Germany (who knows) and give a new date or what? ship? Why did he say two arrival dates on two different census' dates? Any information found out would add to our family history. I'm at a road block. Thanks for any help, James Lucht

Great new source of genealogy. I found 2 namesin Naturalization pages I would like to send for. How does that work. I read several pages about ordering records, but couldn't find a definite answer. Thank you. Rita Broeker Missouri ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Payne" <[email protected]> To: "bbGerman Passenger Lists" <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, January 03, 2010 3:31 PM Subject: [G-P-L] Hamilton County (Cincinnati) OH Records Online > For your information -- More than 1 million documents from Hamilton > County, (Cincinnati) Ohio Probate Court records are now online. Some > records date back to 1791. Records such as birth, death, marriage, > estate, naturalization and other records are available at: > http://www.probatect.org/courtrecordsarchive/bukcats.aspx > > Please note that some documents were destroyed in 3 separate courthouse > fires over the years. > > Happy hunting!!!!!! > > > > Kathy Payne > Researching Surnames: > UCHTMAN, ARLINGHAUS, KOHRMANN, BUERLEIN-Germany > MEES, SCHULTZ, JACOB- Alsace-Lorraine > BEHYMER, SWISHER - Ohio > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hello Al, Happy New Year and welcome to the list. [Do you know anything about plumbing?:) It looks like I'm probably going to spend the rest of the day solving a sump pump problem.] About your Johannes Georg Langohr, [you wrote Johanne = female; George in Germany has no 'e' on the end]. I found him listed in the Wuerttemberg Immigration Index as having applied for a passport in 1853. Considering his location in Germany, chances are he emigrated from the port in LeHavre, France. The problem now is his date or at least the year of birth, whether he was single or married with children when he arrived in the US. What name did he go by in the US/Canada? Was it John or was it John G., or was it George? There is also the chance that when emigrating from France, he may have been traveling under the name of 'Jean' not by his choice but by the whim of the captain or whoever registered him on the ship. Without the vital data it is difficult to determine with any degree of certainty that the George Langohr found on a ship is the one we're looking for. Did he ever reside in the US? If so, when and where - need year, state and county. I noticed several female immigrants by the name of Langohr, so the more info you can provide the better the results. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: "Al Langohr" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, January 3, 2010 2:40:02 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: [G-P-L] New to List Thank you for the warm reception to this list, I am a truck mechanic from Canada in the Niagara Peninsula , I have been researching for a number of years , and have had great success with German records from Wurttemberg in southern Germany more closely the town of Hengstfeld, I know from the family registers that my relative Johanne George Andreas Langohr left Germany in 1852, but I have not yet found the Ship or Passenger list he came on, I fear he left from the port of Bremen and the records were lost. Al Langohr For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Dear Ursula Being an old Mechanic I am able to fix all that stuff you are having trouble with, and I do because I live in the country also I have looked at that film for the Wuerttemberg Immigration Index ,and I gave you the Canada George , he went by John here and was born 21 October 1829, came single and I don' t know if he came to US or directly to Canada , this is on going research. Thanks Al

For your information -- More than 1 million documents from Hamilton County, (Cincinnati) Ohio Probate Court records are now online. Some records date back to 1791. Records such as birth, death, marriage, estate, naturalization and other records are available at: http://www.probatect.org/courtrecordsarchive/bukcats.aspx Please note that some documents were destroyed in 3 separate courthouse fires over the years. Happy hunting!!!!!! Kathy Payne Researching Surnames: UCHTMAN, ARLINGHAUS, KOHRMANN, BUERLEIN-Germany MEES, SCHULTZ, JACOB- Alsace-Lorraine BEHYMER, SWISHER - Ohio

Thank you for the warm reception to this list, I am a truck mechanic from Canada in the Niagara Peninsula , I have been researching for a number of years , and have had great success with German records from Wurttemberg in southern Germany more closely the town of Hengstfeld, I know from the family registers that my relative Johanne George Andreas Langohr left Germany in 1852, but I have not yet found the Ship or Passenger list he came on, I fear he left from the port of Bremen and the records were lost. Al Langohr

Marvin, Thank you. I don't know why I never think to check Wikipedia for information -- there's so much there. And I'll contact the Seminary to see what info they have. Susan Marvin Huggins wrote: Susan, I'm not particularly familiar with this group. You might find some help from some of the links on the Wikipedia page for New Bern ([1]http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Bern,_North_Carolina). Lutheran archives covering the southeast are located at the Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary, Columbia, South Carolina ([2]http://crumleyarchives.ltss.edu/). They may be able to direct you to other sources. Marvin Susan Clark wrote: Marvin (and anyone else who can help me), You refer to "descendants of the large Lutheran population that came to America in the colonial period and settled along the east coast, especially heavily in the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland ...." I am interested in a group of Swiss and Palatinates who settled in New Bern, North Carolina, in the early 1700s -- see [3]http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm. In 1740 this group petitioned the colonial government to build a "church or chapel for the use of the High Germans and the Church of England." (Though I can't find the info right now, I believe this group of settlers may have originally fled persecution and settled in England, and then been chosen by the English authorities to establish a "Protestant" presence in the colonies.) The church is today called the Chinquapin Chapel Christian Church. I don't know if this is its original name. I have several questions -- are these Palatinates some of the Lutherans you refer to? Would they have fled Germany and gone to England in the late 1600s/early 1700s due to persecution? I think the church still exists today, but I didn't receive a reply when I wrote for possible records. Is there a Synod in that area that may have them? This is a general question to everyone: Finally, the ancestor I'm trying to get information on is one who signed the petition for the church -- Michael Pickel. Until I came across this reference, I always had understood that the name Pickel/Pickels/Pickles was of English origin. Is there a German name (one suggestion was something like Peuchal) that could have been Anglisized (is that a word?) to Pickel when this group settled in England? Thanks for any help! Susan For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: [4]http://www.germanyroots. com Please visit and participate in our new forum [5]http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [6]GERMANY-PASSENGER-LIST [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the su bject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: [7]http://www.germanyroots. com Please visit and participate in our new forum [8]http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [9]GERMANY-PASSENGER-LIST [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the su bject and the body of the message References 1. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Bern,_North_Carolina 2. http://crumleyarchives.ltss.edu/ 3. http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm 4. http://www.germanyroots.com/ 5. http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ 6. mailto:[email protected] 7. http://www.germanyroots.com/ 8. http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ 9. mailto:[email protected]

Susan, I'm not particularly familiar with this group. You might find some help from some of the links on the Wikipedia page for New Bern (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Bern,_North_Carolina). Lutheran archives covering the southeast are located at the Lutheran Theological Southern Seminary, Columbia, South Carolina (http://crumleyarchives.ltss.edu/). They may be able to direct you to other sources. Marvin Susan Clark wrote: > Marvin (and anyone else who can help me), > > You refer to "descendants of the large Lutheran population that came to > America in the colonial period and settled along the east coast, > especially heavily in the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland ...." I am > interested in a group of Swiss and Palatinates who settled in New Bern, > North Carolina, in the early 1700s -- see > http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm. In 1740 this group > petitioned the colonial government to build a "church or chapel for the > use of the High Germans and the Church of England." (Though I can't > find the info right now, I believe this group of settlers may have > originally fled persecution and settled in England, and then been chosen > by the English authorities to establish a "Protestant" presence in the > colonies.) The church is today called the Chinquapin Chapel Christian > Church. I don't know if this is its original name. > > I have several questions -- are these Palatinates some of the Lutherans > you refer to? Would they have fled Germany and gone to England in the > late 1600s/early 1700s due to persecution? I think the church still > exists today, but I didn't receive a reply when I wrote for possible > records. Is there a Synod in that area that may have them? > > This is a general question to everyone: > Finally, the ancestor I'm trying to get information on is one who signed > the petition for the church -- Michael Pickel. Until I came across this > reference, I always had understood that the name Pickel/Pickels/Pickles > was of English origin. Is there a German name (one suggestion was > something like Peuchal) that could have been Anglisized (is that a > word?) to Pickel when this group settled in England? > > Thanks for any help! > > Susan > > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Susan, the immigrants you are referring to came from the Palatinate between 1709 and 1740, first to England and Ireland and then to the East Coast of the United States. This emigration was not because of religious persecution but due to great devastation during the Thirty Years war and afterwards the continuous attacks and plundering by the armies of Louis XIV of France. Specifically, the French devastated the province in 1674; in 1688-89 it was laid waste again; and in 1701, during the War of Spanish Succession, it was again plundered. The villages, towns and farms of the Rhine region were pillaged and burned, their inhabitants tortured, ravished or slain. All of this ruination followed hard on the heels of the Thirty Years War from which the region had not yet recovered in 1674, when it was plundered again. By the early 1700s, there had been almost a century of intermittent warfare. When immigrants were asked about their reasons for immigrating they spoke mainly "of the French ravages in 1707. In 1708, the Rev. Joshua Kocherthal applied to an English agency in Frankfurt am Main for permission to take a small group to England, where he applied to Queen Anne for assistance for the Palatines. Queen Anne then provided for their welfare and sustenance. Kocherthal then asked if he could transport the Palatine Germans to America. It was decided that New York would be the appropriate place for them. In 1708, a small group arrived in New York. Each person received fifty acres of land. The settlement they established was called Newburgh, in New York. In 1709, there were some 13,000 Germans in England who were awaiting passage to America. In 1710, Kocherthal returned to England and brought more of them to America; some of these early Palatine Germans settled in Ireland, but the majority made it to the New World. Perhaps the largest group, approx. 3,000 came to New York in 1710. Eventually, it is estimated that tens of thousands came in the colonial period to America, and settled in various colonies. It should also be noted that while they are generally referred to as Palatines, some of the immigrants came from Alsace, Lorraine and Switzerland. Regarding the word or surname: "Pickel" is German; Pickel = Pimple; also ref. "Pickelhaube" the pointed helmet worn by the Kaiser. "Pickle" is English. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: "Susan Clark" <[email protected]> To: [email protected] Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 5:58:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connections Marvin (and anyone else who can help me), You refer to "descendants of the large Lutheran population that came to America in the colonial period and settled along the east coast, especially heavily in the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland ...." I am interested in a group of Swiss and Palatinates who settled in New Bern, North Carolina, in the early 1700s -- see http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm. In 1740 this group petitioned the colonial government to build a "church or chapel for the use of the High Germans and the Church of England." (Though I can't find the info right now, I believe this group of settlers may have originally fled persecution and settled in England, and then been chosen by the English authorities to establish a "Protestant" presence in the colonies.) The church is today called the Chinquapin Chapel Christian Church. I don't know if this is its original name. I have several questions -- are these Palatinates some of the Lutherans you refer to? Would they have fled Germany and gone to England in the late 1600s/early 1700s due to persecution? I think the church still exists today, but I didn't receive a reply when I wrote for possible records. Is there a Synod in that area that may have them? This is a general question to everyone: Finally, the ancestor I'm trying to get information on is one who signed the petition for the church -- Michael Pickel. Until I came across this reference, I always had understood that the name Pickel/Pickels/Pickles was of English origin. Is there a German name (one suggestion was something like Peuchal) that could have been Anglisized (is that a word?) to Pickel when this group settled in England? Thanks for any help! Susan For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Thank you so much, Ursula. This really helps me understand the background of my ancestor. Susan Ursula wrote: > Susan, > > the immigrants you are referring to came from the Palatinate between 1709 and 1740, first to England and Ireland and then to the East Coast of the United States. This emigration was not because of religious persecution but due to great devastation during the Thirty Years war and afterwards the continuous attacks and plundering by the armies of Louis XIV of France. > > Specifically, the French devastated the province in 1674; in 1688-89 it was laid waste again; and in 1701, during the War of Spanish Succession, it was again plundered. The villages, towns and farms of the Rhine region were pillaged and burned, their inhabitants tortured, ravished or slain. All of this ruination followed hard on the heels of the Thirty Years War from which the region had not yet recovered in 1674, when it was plundered again. By the early 1700s, there had been almost a century of intermittent warfare. > > When immigrants were asked about their reasons for immigrating they spoke mainly "of the French ravages in 1707. > > In 1708, the Rev. Joshua Kocherthal applied to an English agency in Frankfurt am Main for permission to take a small group to England, where he applied to Queen Anne for assistance for the Palatines. Queen Anne then provided for their welfare and sustenance. Kocherthal then asked if he could transport the Palatine Germans to America. It was decided that New York would be the appropriate place for them. > > In 1708, a small group arrived in New York. Each person received fifty acres of land. The settlement they established was called Newburgh, in New York. > > In 1709, there were some 13,000 Germans in England who were awaiting passage to America. In 1710, Kocherthal returned to England and brought more of them to America; some of these early Palatine Germans settled in Ireland, but the majority made it to the New World. > > Perhaps the largest group, approx. 3,000 came to New York in 1710. Eventually, it is estimated that tens of thousands came in the colonial period to America, and settled in various colonies. It should also be noted that while they are generally referred to as Palatines, some of the immigrants came from Alsace, Lorraine and Switzerland. > > Regarding the word or surname: "Pickel" is German; Pickel = Pimple; also ref. "Pickelhaube" the pointed helmet worn by the Kaiser. "Pickle" is English. > > Ursula > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Susan Clark" <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Saturday, January 2, 2010 5:58:16 AM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern > Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connections > > Marvin (and anyone else who can help me), > > You refer to "descendants of the large Lutheran population that came to > America in the colonial period and settled along the east coast, > especially heavily in the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland ...." I am > interested in a group of Swiss and Palatinates who settled in New Bern, > North Carolina, in the early 1700s -- see > http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm. In 1740 this group > petitioned the colonial government to build a "church or chapel for the > use of the High Germans and the Church of England." (Though I can't > find the info right now, I believe this group of settlers may have > originally fled persecution and settled in England, and then been chosen > by the English authorities to establish a "Protestant" presence in the > colonies.) The church is today called the Chinquapin Chapel Christian > Church. I don't know if this is its original name. > > I have several questions -- are these Palatinates some of the Lutherans > you refer to? Would they have fled Germany and gone to England in the > late 1600s/early 1700s due to persecution? I think the church still > exists today, but I didn't receive a reply when I wrote for possible > records. Is there a Synod in that area that may have them? > > This is a general question to everyone: > Finally, the ancestor I'm trying to get information on is one who signed > the petition for the church -- Michael Pickel. Until I came across this > reference, I always had understood that the name Pickel/Pickels/Pickles > was of English origin. Is there a German name (one suggestion was > something like Peuchal) that could have been Anglisized (is that a > word?) to Pickel when this group settled in England? > > Thanks for any help! > > Susan > > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

Marvin and Ursula and Anyone else who wants to read this As you all have been reading about my husbands family , you know that the Lutheran faith was very important to them. We didn't understand until just lately how important. Harold's Great-grandfather helped to start the church in Manistee, Mi and when he came to Missouri helped to start the one in Friestat, Mo. He tried to start a church in Billings, Mo the "Kirhenbuch de Evangelisch Lutherischen Zions-Gemeinde, Ungeanderter Angsburgischer Konfession, zu- Billings, Christian Co. Mo. I copied the words from the book we have as a copy in our family. This church did not last ling but the one in Friestat did. The church in Billings is of the United Churches of Christ now. We do not go there but for some wonderful special services that Harold is asked to sing in German for the people. Now back to the Lutheran faith. Harold always wondered why a German farmer would send his only son the the Lutheran school in a town where he would have to stay and not get to help on the farm. We now know that the Lutheran faith was very important to them.Praise the Lord for that. Sorry to go on so long but when in genealogy you find something that makes sense and helps you to understand your ancestors you like to share it. Darlene ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Huggins" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 01, 2010 4:25 PM Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons > It is sometimes difficult for people in the United States, who have > grown up with such a wide variety of Christian denominations to > understand the German situation. The term "Protestant" or "Evangelish" > in German encompasses anyone not a Roman Catholic. But the Protestant > family in Germany did include two diverse confessional strains--the > Lutheran and the Reformed, the latter following the theology of John > Calvin and his circle. Religious confession and political allegiance > were mixed together under a principle that the faith of the ruler of a > territory determined the official confessional faith of a territory. And > the Reformed were very much a minority, so few territories officially > followed that tradition. For the most part an area was either Lutheran > or Roman Catholic. There were also groups then called Anabaptists--today > represented by such traditions a Mennonites and Amish--who were found in > German territories but never had a ruler give them legitimacy and often > suffered various levels of persecution. > > Individual churches in the Lutheran or Protestant areas might follow > either the Lutheran or the Reformed confessions and such differences > were more or less tolerated. However, in 1817 Frederick William III, > king of Prussia, himself a follower of the Reformed confession while his > wife was a Lutheran, sought to force the churches in Prussia, the > largest of the German territories, to follow one combined formula in > worship with wording, for example, in the liturgy for the distribution > of Holy Communion that was ambiguous so that both Lutherans and Reformed > could interpret it according to their differing understandings. Some > Lutherans resisted this. That's the origin of the term "altlutherisch" > or "Altlutheraner." In some areas these pastors were removed from their > parishes and even put into prison for resisting the king's decrees. As a > result, there were several movements of pastors and members of their > congregations to the U.S. and to Australia. The largest groups settled > in western New York and in Wisconsin. Primarily the Wisconsin and the > former Buffalo Synod were formed from these groups, but also the > Missouri Synod held strongly to this Lutheran confessional position and > readily received "old Lutherans" from Prussia into its congregations. > > Present-day Lutheran churches in the U.S. come from a much broader > series of traditions that have gradually merged with the followers of > the "Old Lutheran" tradition. They include the descendants of the large > Lutheran population that came to America in the colonial period and > settled along the east coast, especially heavily in the Carolinas, > Pennsylvania, Maryland and New York and gradually spreading west in the > 19th century. Another large component of the present Lutheran tradition > consists of churches of Scandinavian heritage, and they came from a > broad spectrum of attitudes and levels of commitment to the Lutheran > confessional tradition. > > It's a very complex story! And the response of the lady you mentioned is > certainly how many today perceive the religious tradition of their > families. There might even be some whose ancestors were members of one > of those Evangelical Synod congregations we discussed earlier who would > make that claim about their family. > > Marvin > > > > Ursula wrote: >> Marvin, >> >> Thank you again for providing us with a cornucopia of church related >> information! >> I'm so glad you've responded to our plea for clarification. >> >> Talk about people being confused. >> I had mentioned one time on this forum that when I grew up in Germany >> there were only two major religious confessions in Germany, Catholic and >> Protestant, with the Evangelical-Lutherans being counted among the >> Protestants. >> Some lady responded that her ancestors were Lutherans and that they would >> turn over in their grave if someone had called them Protestants.:) >> >> This thread started with the "Altlutheraner" and before closing the >> subject I have one more question. >> Am I to assume that the present day "Lutheran" churches sprang from the >> "Altlutheraner"? >> I'm asking because pastor Gerhard Doroh of St. Peter's Lutheran Church in >> Richmond, MI asked me once if I knew about the German Lutherans [I assume >> he referred to the Altlutheraner] who at one time had been persecuted, >> even killed, and driven out of the country. At the time I had not heard >> about the Altlutheran in Germany or in the US and I thought he was >> talking about medievil times. I then began looking into the history of >> the Altlutheraner when I found out that this occured between 1835 and >> 1854, actually not that long ago. >> >> Happy New Year to all, >> >> Ursula >> >> <<all previous posts have been removed>> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Marvin Huggins" <[email protected]> >> To: "Ursula" <[email protected]> >> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 12:12:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern >> Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons >> >> Ursula, >> >> The "Evangelical Calendar" about which you ask reflects another aspect of >> the confusion many have with identifying and locating the right >> congregation with records of their ancestors. >> >> The "Deutsche Evangelische Synode von Nordamerika" developed out of the >> "Kirchenverein des Westens," which was organized about the same time as >> the Missouri Synod and the other midwestern Lutheran church bodies like >> the Wisconsin and Iowa synods. And it also happened to be centered in >> Saint Louis, which compounds the confusion. The Evangelical Synod (for >> short) is an American reflection of the Prussian Union churches from >> Germany with a mixture of Lutheran and Reformed confessional allegiances. >> It was at odds with the Missouri Synod, which stood on a strict adherence >> to the Lutheran Confessions in the Book of Concord of 1580. >> >> >> For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: >> http://www.germanyroots.com >> >> Please visit and participate in our new forum >> http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' >> without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Marvin (and anyone else who can help me), You refer to "descendants of the large Lutheran population that came to America in the colonial period and settled along the east coast, especially heavily in the Carolinas, Pennsylvania, Maryland ...." I am interested in a group of Swiss and Palatinates who settled in New Bern, North Carolina, in the early 1700s -- see http://newbern.cpclib.org/research/settlers.htm. In 1740 this group petitioned the colonial government to build a "church or chapel for the use of the High Germans and the Church of England." (Though I can't find the info right now, I believe this group of settlers may have originally fled persecution and settled in England, and then been chosen by the English authorities to establish a "Protestant" presence in the colonies.) The church is today called the Chinquapin Chapel Christian Church. I don't know if this is its original name. I have several questions -- are these Palatinates some of the Lutherans you refer to? Would they have fled Germany and gone to England in the late 1600s/early 1700s due to persecution? I think the church still exists today, but I didn't receive a reply when I wrote for possible records. Is there a Synod in that area that may have them? This is a general question to everyone: Finally, the ancestor I'm trying to get information on is one who signed the petition for the church -- Michael Pickel. Until I came across this reference, I always had understood that the name Pickel/Pickels/Pickles was of English origin. Is there a German name (one suggestion was something like Peuchal) that could have been Anglisized (is that a word?) to Pickel when this group settled in England? Thanks for any help! Susan

Linda, Perhaps I should publish the 1904 and 1905 directory of the pastors of the German Evangelical Synod of North America; At the very least it will give some people an indication of the churches that existed in their communities at that time. I have identified several in the county where I reside and the neighboring county and recognize the names of the pastors who served at that time. Yes, I saw the writeup of the Buffalo Synod but didn't want to confuse the issue and so I didn't mention it. Besides that info is available online under "Altlutheraner" or "Old Lutherans". Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Noll" <[email protected]> To: "[email protected]," <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 3:15:34 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [G-P-L] [Fwd: Re: Lutheran Connectons] This was a wonderful clarification for me - as my gggrandparents were members of the Evangelical Church . The daughters of this family joined the WLS Church, but the Mother was buried from the UCC . The father died and was buried in the Evangelical Church and I am having a really difficult time finding any of HIS church records. I now have another source of inquiry. Blessings, Linda Noll [email protected] God is our refuge and strength, a very present help in trouble. Psalm 46:1 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God: Not of works, lest any man should boast. ~ Ephesians 2:8-9 > [Original Message] > From: Marvin Huggins <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Date: 1/1/2010 11:18:23 AM > Subject: [G-P-L] [Fwd: Re: Lutheran Connectons] > > > This was my second exchange with Ursula. I hope it is helpful to more list > members. > Marvin > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons > Date: Fri, 01 Jan 2010 11:12:58 -0600 > From: Marvin Huggins [1]<[email protected]> > Reply-To: [2][email protected] > To: Ursula [3]<[email protected]> > References: >

Phil, Because I can't send attachments through the forum, I'll send them to your personal inbox. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 2:31:28 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [G-P-L] August Peters of Waldenburg, Macomb Co, MI Yes Ursala, In my wifes ancestry along w/ Vick, Stark,Weiskirch,Stark,Wondero,Weber,Gastmeier,etc. Thankyou, Phil ------- Original Message ------- >From : Ursula[mailto:[email protected]] Sent : 1/1/2010 1:41:16 PM To : [email protected] Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [G-P-L] August Peters of Waldenburg, Macomb Co, MI Happy New Year Phil! Does August Peters of Waldenburg ring a bell? I thought you mentioned one time that the Peters were in your family tree. If that's true, let me know and I will send you the two passport applications I found where August Peters, born 6 December 1845 in Angermuende, Brandenburg Province, returned to his hometown in 1898 and 1902. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- The old records where the church may have separated from the MO Synod may have some records, but, the records are mostly of the Pastors, some congregations, maybe some teachers, & some lay people. Contact them for the correct answers.I am guessing, like I would if asked whats in your closet. Good luck. Phil ------- Original Message ------- >From : Jeanne Fizell[ mailto:[email protected] ] Sent : 12/31/2009 2:18:49 PM To : [email protected] Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons Is that where you find both American Lutheran and Missouri Synod records please? ----- Original Message ----- > > > The address is :: > [email protected] > > I aam a member as long as my dues are up to date. > Phil Kuehn > > > ------- Original Message ------- >>From : M Hurney[ mailto:[email protected] ] > Sent : 12/31/2009 11:33:22 AM > To : [email protected] > Cc : > Subject : RE: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons > > Contact Concordia Historical Society in St. Louis. They have German > Lutheran Church records. You can find their address if you Google them. > I > contacted them a few years ago for my great grandparent's marriage > information. I sent them a $25.00 donation and they were very > accomodating > researching for the information I wanted. On the Lutheran marriage > information it ways where the bride and groom were born. This was the > door > that opened for me to find many ancestors - Eldena, Mecklenburg and Gross > Wanzer, Prussia - now in Sachen Anhalt. Well worth the $25.00. Marlene > in > Sioux Falls, SD. > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Happy New Year Phil! Does August Peters of Waldenburg ring a bell? I thought you mentioned one time that the Peters were in your family tree. If that's true, let me know and I will send you the two passport applications I found where August Peters, born 6 December 1845 in Angermuende, Brandenburg Province, returned to his hometown in 1898 and 1902. Ursula ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Sent: Thursday, December 31, 2009 3:51:06 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons The old records where the church may have separated from the MO Synod may have some records, but, the records are mostly of the Pastors, some congregations, maybe some teachers, & some lay people. Contact them for the correct answers.I am guessing, like I would if asked whats in your closet. Good luck. Phil ------- Original Message ------- >From : Jeanne Fizell[mailto:[email protected]] Sent : 12/31/2009 2:18:49 PM To : [email protected] Cc : Subject : RE: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons Is that where you find both American Lutheran and Missouri Synod records please? ----- Original Message ----- > > > The address is :: > [email protected] > > I aam a member as long as my dues are up to date. > Phil Kuehn > > > ------- Original Message ------- >>From : M Hurney[ mailto:[email protected] ] > Sent : 12/31/2009 11:33:22 AM > To : [email protected] > Cc : > Subject : RE: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons > > Contact Concordia Historical Society in St. Louis. They have German > Lutheran Church records. You can find their address if you Google them. > I > contacted them a few years ago for my great grandparent's marriage > information. I sent them a $25.00 donation and they were very > accomodating > researching for the information I wanted. On the Lutheran marriage > information it ways where the bride and groom were born. This was the > door > that opened for me to find many ancestors - Eldena, Mecklenburg and Gross > Wanzer, Prussia - now in Sachen Anhalt. Well worth the $25.00. Marlene > in > Sioux Falls, SD. > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: > http://www.germanyroots.com > > Please visit and participate in our new forum > http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message For all the latest News, please visit our Homepage: http://www.germanyroots.com Please visit and participate in our new forum http://www.germanyroots.com/phpBB3/ ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Marvin, Thank you again for providing us with a cornucopia of church related information! I'm so glad you've responded to our plea for clarification. Talk about people being confused. I had mentioned one time on this forum that when I grew up in Germany there were only two major religious confessions in Germany, Catholic and Protestant, with the Evangelical-Lutherans being counted among the Protestants. Some lady responded that her ancestors were Lutherans and that they would turn over in their grave if someone had called them Protestants.:) This thread started with the "Altlutheraner" and before closing the subject I have one more question. Am I to assume that the present day "Lutheran" churches sprang from the "Altlutheraner"? I'm asking because pastor Gerhard Doroh of St. Peter's Lutheran Church in Richmond, MI asked me once if I knew about the German Lutherans [I assume he referred to the Altlutheraner] who at one time had been persecuted, even killed, and driven out of the country. At the time I had not heard about the Altlutheran in Germany or in the US and I thought he was talking about medievil times. I then began looking into the history of the Altlutheraner when I found out that this occured between 1835 and 1854, actually not that long ago. Happy New Year to all, Ursula <<all previous posts have been removed>> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Marvin Huggins" <[email protected]> To: "Ursula" <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, January 1, 2010 12:12:58 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada Eastern Subject: Re: [G-P-L] Lutheran Connectons Ursula, The "Evangelical Calendar" about which you ask reflects another aspect of the confusion many have with identifying and locating the right congregation with records of their ancestors. The "Deutsche Evangelische  Synode von Nordamerika" developed out of the "Kirchenverein des Westens," which was organized about the same time as the Missouri Synod and the other midwestern Lutheran church bodies like the  Wisconsin and Iowa  synods. And it also happened to be centered in Saint Louis, which compounds the confusion. The Evangelical Synod (for short) is an American reflection of the Prussian Union churches from Germany with a mixture of Lutheran and Reformed confessional allegiances. It was at odds with the Missouri Synod, which stood on a strict adherence to the Lutheran Confessions in the Book of Concord of 1580.