unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <Spaghettitree@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Lena Wieland records Kathy - for starters, this lady was in two separate court jurisdictions (each court having power only within its own jurisdiction, Farmington and the City of St. Louis). So you need to determine the civil court having the power over the person and estate of someone in each of these medical facilities - in some states this is the Superior Court - I think that's what it may be there. I came from Kirkwood, but worked in the law only in California. See if you can get the number of the American Bar Association for attorneys practicing in each location and ask for someone with experience (at least 10 years') in each place and interview them by phone. You should be able to get the name of 3 attorneys in each place who could answer some questions and/or write a simple letter for $25/$30. I don't know exactly what it is you're seeking, personal records, I presume, but these facilities are probably concerned about making confidential medical records public, so you need to fine tune your request. You will need to identify yourself by documentation, and document your relationship to Lena, and the reason you are seeking this information which the court might see as compelling. It is questionable whether genealogy would fit that bill; perhaps attempting to determine family genes, physical traits or causes of illness? Adding next of kin in there? Whether this information is sealed, or even available, remains to be seen - may be in an old archive in the basement of a courthouse. Most court proceedings are public records, but these are medical, so I doubt it; at the very least, somebody has to go hunting for them and make copies. If an attorney needs to prepare a court order and submit it to a judge at a hearing in each place, which may or may not require your presence, this can get expensive. The Freedom of Information Act may help you here, but won't reduce the cost. You might try seeking the aid of law school students. They don't yet know the things they can't do. Or Pro Bono attorneys (no charge). I'm not an attorney, just a Certified Paralegal, retired, so this is only my 2¢ worth. There must be some Missouri attorneys in this bunch who can address this more satisfactorily. Hope this helps a bit. Maureen ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Thank you, Maureen, for your insights and guidance. I was afraid that no one would answer or advise. I, too, would be interested in a Missouri attorney's opinion. Surely someone else has tried to obtain records for someone at the State Hospital #4 or the Sanitarium on Arsenal Street? Kathlyn Goedeker Wieland in St. Louis Researching Goedeker, Wieland/Weiland, Hohenstein, Guelker, Jennings and Schott of Apple Creek, MO -----Original Message----- From: David Walsh [mailto:honeybear@oregonfast.net] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:28 PM To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Lena Wieland records unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <Spaghettitree@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Lena Wieland records Kathy - for starters, this lady was in two separate court jurisdictions (each court having power only within its own jurisdiction, Farmington and the City of St. Louis). So you need to determine the civil court having the power over the person and estate of someone in each of these medical facilities - in some states this is the Superior Court - I think that's what it may be there. I came from Kirkwood, but worked in the law only in California. See if you can get the number of the American Bar Association for attorneys practicing in each location and ask for someone with experience (at least 10 years') in each place and interview them by phone. You should be able to get the name of 3 attorneys in each place who could answer some questions and/or write a simple letter for $25/$30. I don't know exactly what it is you're seeking, personal records, I presume, but these facilities are probably concerned about making confidential medical records public, so you need to fine tune your request. You will need to identify yourself by documentation, and document your relationship to Lena, and the reason you are seeking this information which the court might see as compelling. It is questionable whether genealogy would fit that bill; perhaps attempting to determine family genes, physical traits or causes of illness? Adding next of kin in there? Whether this information is sealed, or even available, remains to be seen - may be in an old archive in the basement of a courthouse. Most court proceedings are public records, but these are medical, so I doubt it; at the very least, somebody has to go hunting for them and make copies. If an attorney needs to prepare a court order and submit it to a judge at a hearing in each place, which may or may not require your presence, this can get expensive. The Freedom of Information Act may help you here, but won't reduce the cost. You might try seeking the aid of law school students. They don't yet know the things they can't do. Or Pro Bono attorneys (no charge). I'm not an attorney, just a Certified Paralegal, retired, so this is only my 2¢ worth. There must be some Missouri attorneys in this bunch who can address this more satisfactorily. Hope this helps a bit. Maureen ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237