Hi This is to urge everyone interested in genealogy and family history to support local, regional, state and national family-history organizations. Nowadays, we get much of our information and data from e-mail and other Internet facilities, but many of the on-line databases, etc., are created by volunteers in those organizations. Already this year, two important family-history organizations in Missouri have become defunct: The Heart of America group and the American Family Records Association. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks

Kathy - for starters, this lady was in two separate court jurisdictions (each court having power only within its own jurisdiction, Farmington and the City of St. Louis). So you need to determine the civil court having the power over the person and estate of someone in each of these medical facilities - in some states this is the Superior Court - I think that's what it may be there. I came from Kirkwood, but worked in the law only in California. See if you can get the number of the American Bar Association for attorneys practicing in each location and ask for someone with experience (at least 10 years') in each place and interview them by phone. You should be able to get the name of 3 attorneys in each place who could answer some questions and/or write a simple letter for $25/$30. I don't know exactly what it is you're seeking, personal records, I presume, but these facilities are probably concerned about making confidential medical records public, so you need to fine tune your request. You will need to identify yourself by documentation, and document your relationship to Lena, and the reason you are seeking this information which the court might see as compelling. It is questionable whether genealogy would fit that bill; perhaps attempting to determine family genes, physical traits or causes of illness? Adding next of kin in there? Whether this information is sealed, or even available, remains to be seen - may be in an old archive in the basement of a courthouse. Most court proceedings are public records, but these are medical, so I doubt it; at the very least, somebody has to go hunting for them and make copies. If an attorney needs to prepare a court order and submit it to a judge at a hearing in each place, which may or may not require your presence, this can get expensive. The Freedom of Information Act may help you here, but won't reduce the cost. You might try seeking the aid of law school students. They don't yet know the things they can't do. Or Pro Bono attorneys (no charge). I'm not an attorney, just a Certified Paralegal, retired, so this is only my 2¢ worth. There must be some Missouri attorneys in this bunch who can address this more satisfactorily. Hope this helps a bit. Maureen

unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <Spaghettitree@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Lena Wieland records Kathy - for starters, this lady was in two separate court jurisdictions (each court having power only within its own jurisdiction, Farmington and the City of St. Louis). So you need to determine the civil court having the power over the person and estate of someone in each of these medical facilities - in some states this is the Superior Court - I think that's what it may be there. I came from Kirkwood, but worked in the law only in California. See if you can get the number of the American Bar Association for attorneys practicing in each location and ask for someone with experience (at least 10 years') in each place and interview them by phone. You should be able to get the name of 3 attorneys in each place who could answer some questions and/or write a simple letter for $25/$30. I don't know exactly what it is you're seeking, personal records, I presume, but these facilities are probably concerned about making confidential medical records public, so you need to fine tune your request. You will need to identify yourself by documentation, and document your relationship to Lena, and the reason you are seeking this information which the court might see as compelling. It is questionable whether genealogy would fit that bill; perhaps attempting to determine family genes, physical traits or causes of illness? Adding next of kin in there? Whether this information is sealed, or even available, remains to be seen - may be in an old archive in the basement of a courthouse. Most court proceedings are public records, but these are medical, so I doubt it; at the very least, somebody has to go hunting for them and make copies. If an attorney needs to prepare a court order and submit it to a judge at a hearing in each place, which may or may not require your presence, this can get expensive. The Freedom of Information Act may help you here, but won't reduce the cost. You might try seeking the aid of law school students. They don't yet know the things they can't do. Or Pro Bono attorneys (no charge). I'm not an attorney, just a Certified Paralegal, retired, so this is only my 2¢ worth. There must be some Missouri attorneys in this bunch who can address this more satisfactorily. Hope this helps a bit. Maureen ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Thank you, Maureen, for your insights and guidance. I was afraid that no one would answer or advise. I, too, would be interested in a Missouri attorney's opinion. Surely someone else has tried to obtain records for someone at the State Hospital #4 or the Sanitarium on Arsenal Street? Kathlyn Goedeker Wieland in St. Louis Researching Goedeker, Wieland/Weiland, Hohenstein, Guelker, Jennings and Schott of Apple Creek, MO -----Original Message----- From: David Walsh [mailto:honeybear@oregonfast.net] Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 9:28 PM To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Lena Wieland records unsubscribe ----- Original Message ----- From: <Spaghettitree@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 01, 2004 7:29 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Lena Wieland records Kathy - for starters, this lady was in two separate court jurisdictions (each court having power only within its own jurisdiction, Farmington and the City of St. Louis). So you need to determine the civil court having the power over the person and estate of someone in each of these medical facilities - in some states this is the Superior Court - I think that's what it may be there. I came from Kirkwood, but worked in the law only in California. See if you can get the number of the American Bar Association for attorneys practicing in each location and ask for someone with experience (at least 10 years') in each place and interview them by phone. You should be able to get the name of 3 attorneys in each place who could answer some questions and/or write a simple letter for $25/$30. I don't know exactly what it is you're seeking, personal records, I presume, but these facilities are probably concerned about making confidential medical records public, so you need to fine tune your request. You will need to identify yourself by documentation, and document your relationship to Lena, and the reason you are seeking this information which the court might see as compelling. It is questionable whether genealogy would fit that bill; perhaps attempting to determine family genes, physical traits or causes of illness? Adding next of kin in there? Whether this information is sealed, or even available, remains to be seen - may be in an old archive in the basement of a courthouse. Most court proceedings are public records, but these are medical, so I doubt it; at the very least, somebody has to go hunting for them and make copies. If an attorney needs to prepare a court order and submit it to a judge at a hearing in each place, which may or may not require your presence, this can get expensive. The Freedom of Information Act may help you here, but won't reduce the cost. You might try seeking the aid of law school students. They don't yet know the things they can't do. Or Pro Bono attorneys (no charge). I'm not an attorney, just a Certified Paralegal, retired, so this is only my 2¢ worth. There must be some Missouri attorneys in this bunch who can address this more satisfactorily. Hope this helps a bit. Maureen ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Dear Friends, I would like to obtain records for Lena Wieland, a patient in 1910 at the State Hospital #4 in Farmington, MO. In 1920 Lena is a resident at the Sanitarium on Arsenal Street. I have been told that her records from these institutions may be available to family members with a court order. Can anyone tell me what kind of court order I need or how to proceed with this? This list has always been a great source of information, and I'm hoping that someone out there can guide me. Many thanks, Kathlyn Goedeker Wieland Researching Goedeker, Wieland, Hohenstein, Guelker, Timmer, Jennings and Schott of Apple Creek, MO

Dear Carol: Thanks so much for your help. I'll try it out. Janice

Hi Janice, If you contact the St. Louis Public Library, http://www.slpl.lib.mo.us/libsrc/obit.htm they would probably search for the obit in the local newspaper, since you have the death dates, and would send you a copy. The library in Texas did this for me, for free. Scroll down on the page to the bottom of the text, for contacting them. This website http://genealogyinstlouis.accessgenealogy.com/ has a lot of info on St. Louis, too, including the website to the Recorder of Deeds. Carol in St. Louis ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Reeves" <kay_r2@yahoo.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, April 29, 2004 5:45 AM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Brinkers in St Louis mid to late 1800s > Dear Janice, > > Since you live in Texas, probably the best way to get these records is to contact the St. Louis Recorder of Deeds Office. For a fee, they will be able to make copies of any records they have on your son-in-laws ancestors. Since you have actual death dates for the people you are looking for, that should help considerably. > > Kay Reeves, > Cahokia, IL > > JANICEC6@aol.com wrote: > Hi Fellow Listers: > > I recently found some information on my son-in-law's Brinker family and would > like to be able to add to it if possible with some help you all out there. > > How can I find the death records/obituaries of John Bernard Brinker who died > 14 Mar 1930 and his wife Agnes (Weiss) who died 7 Dec 1935--both in St. Louis? > > I am also looking for the death record of Baltasar/Balthazar Brinker b. 1808 > in Germany and died 1872 in St. Louis. Do these records exist? > > If someone died in the 1849 cholera epidemic would there be death records for > them also? Baltasar's first wife Catherine (Tepe) died 12 Jul 1849 in that > epidemic. > > Thanking you all in advance for your help. > > Janice Connell > El Paso, TX > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Dear Janice, Since you live in Texas, probably the best way to get these records is to contact the St. Louis Recorder of Deeds Office. For a fee, they will be able to make copies of any records they have on your son-in-laws ancestors. Since you have actual death dates for the people you are looking for, that should help considerably. Kay Reeves, Cahokia, IL JANICEC6@aol.com wrote: Hi Fellow Listers: I recently found some information on my son-in-law's Brinker family and would like to be able to add to it if possible with some help you all out there. How can I find the death records/obituaries of John Bernard Brinker who died 14 Mar 1930 and his wife Agnes (Weiss) who died 7 Dec 1935--both in St. Louis? I am also looking for the death record of Baltasar/Balthazar Brinker b. 1808 in Germany and died 1872 in St. Louis. Do these records exist? If someone died in the 1849 cholera epidemic would there be death records for them also? Baltasar's first wife Catherine (Tepe) died 12 Jul 1849 in that epidemic. Thanking you all in advance for your help. Janice Connell El Paso, TX ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Win a $20,000 Career Makeover at Yahoo! HotJobs

Now Roy, you're not all that old. Only 7 years older than I am. :-) Donna

Gary I can't say that I have any stock from the Expo but, do have some from LA ...probably not worth anything...my grandfather left them to me....haven't checked on them...too old , I think. I will have to dig out the things from the Fair and see what they are ...haven't looked at them in years....saving them for grandchildren. He left me his mother's wedding rings...and some jewelry from her. These will be passed on too! I remember my grandmother telling me about the Fair. I haven't thought about this stuff until now....thanks. Pat ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan@optonline.net> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > Hi Pat: > > I was just kidding - even about Mel Bay. > > My grandfather and great-grand owned stock in the Exposition and received a > whopping 5% return on their investment (I'm sure they were hoping to just > break even) - but, unlike yours, didn't leave any souvenirs for their > ancesters. Thanks > > Gary > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1@fidnet.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 4:56 PM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > That was way to early for Joe Schirmer. My grandparents attended this > event > > and I have some things from the Fair. > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan@optonline.net> > > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:53 PM > > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > > > > Hi Marian: > > > > > > Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there > was > > > more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana > > > Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - > > the > > > Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. > > > > > > Gary Stoltman > > > Merverville, NJ > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > > From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> > > > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM > > > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > > > > > > > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the > musician > > > was > > > > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g > > > grandfather > > > > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know > > who > > > it > > > > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed > > > down in > > > > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure > > was!) > > > > Marian > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > > > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > > > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > > > German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing > old > > > German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To > > > subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com > > (Mail > > > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > > > > > > > ============================== > > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, > > cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that > concerns > > traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily > > life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate > > topic. To subscribe click on > > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail > > Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > > (Digest Mode) > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list > mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list > related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Thanks Roy: As you've seen, I was only kidding (obviously, not well). Bought my first guitar from him in 1962. Had $15 burning a hole in my pocket and went into his shop in Kirkwood. He took an old country-western "S" hole guitar and made it 'sing' for me. I of course, bought it, took it home and practiced until my fingers bled. Couldn't understand why it was so hard to play until I figured out that the strings were about an inch too high off the fret board. The neck was warped! I told him that story years later and got a laugh - but, of course, no discount. I hear he's still alive with all his money, living in Pacific, selling his guitar & music books. Roy, if you are near Mel's age - you are a geezer! Congratulations on making it this far. Hope you've left your memories on a disc somewhere. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <roy.w.johnson@att.net> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: RE: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > Couldn't have been Mel Bay. He was a friend of mine. I'm an old geezer > but not that old. Mel had to be born some time around 1900. > > Roy Johnson > Researching Schnake/Schnacke in Kreis Minden (Westfalen/Westphalia) and > worldwide > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~schnake > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Stoltman [mailto:stopan@optonline.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:53 PM > To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > Hi Marian: > > Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there > was > more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana > Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - > the > Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. > > Gary Stoltman > Merverville, NJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the > musician > was > > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g > grandfather > > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know > who > it > > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed > down in > > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure > was!) > > Marian > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing > old > German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To > subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com > (Mail > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, > cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that > concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes > and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an > appropriate topic. To subscribe click on > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail > Mode) or > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Pat: I was just kidding - even about Mel Bay. My grandfather and great-grand owned stock in the Exposition and received a whopping 5% return on their investment (I'm sure they were hoping to just break even) - but, unlike yours, didn't leave any souvenirs for their ancesters. Thanks Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Patricia Knight" <pknight1@fidnet.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 4:56 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > That was way to early for Joe Schirmer. My grandparents attended this event > and I have some things from the Fair. > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan@optonline.net> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:53 PM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > Hi Marian: > > > > Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there was > > more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana > > Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - > the > > Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. > > > > Gary Stoltman > > Merverville, NJ > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> > > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM > > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > > > > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the musician > > was > > > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g > > grandfather > > > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know > who > > it > > > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed > > down in > > > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure > was!) > > > Marian > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > > German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old > > German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To > > subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com > (Mail > > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, > cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns > traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily > life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate > topic. To subscribe click on > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail > Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > (Digest Mode) > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Mel Bay passed away some years ago. My wife worked at Greenbriar Hills Country Club and we got to know him there and became good friends. I am 70, not quite as old as Mel would be if he were alive. I live in Kirkwood so I have visited his music store a number of times. He and Stan Musial came to our church along with a guitarist from Nashville and did a charity thing for us. My wife just happened to attend the game in the 1950s when Stan hit 5 home runs in one game, and she scored the first game (got lazy in the second) and still has the scorecard. We met him when he was at our church and he autographed the score card. He is a natural entertainer and such a nice guy! We checked on the value of that score card, but Stan was so free with his autographs that they don't have much value--signature inflation, I guess you could call it, like printing too much money. I'm a country picker myself. Have a 1940 Gibson that's just a little short of looking like Willie Nelson's Martin, but even in its beat up condition, they say it's worth about $1000. Still plays nice. I got it in a Joplin pawn shop in 1955 for $35, or actually $25 plus an old Kay Craft with a neck "springing" (wouldn't stay steady) that my Dad gave me. Believe it or not, Kay Craft guitars are becoming collector's items. I have a song selling on eBay that I wrote for my in-laws' golden wedding called "Golden Love" You can hear it at http://goldenlove.home.att.net/ Not trying to sell it to you, just thought you might be interested since you are a guitar picker. Where do you live? Roy Johnson Kirkwood -----Original Message----- From: Gary Stoltman [mailto:stopan@optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 9:39 PM To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis Thanks Roy: As you've seen, I was only kidding (obviously, not well). Bought my first guitar from him in 1962. Had $15 burning a hole in my pocket and went into his shop in Kirkwood. He took an old country-western "S" hole guitar and made it 'sing' for me. I of course, bought it, took it home and practiced until my fingers bled. Couldn't understand why it was so hard to play until I figured out that the strings were about an inch too high off the fret board. The neck was warped! I told him that story years later and got a laugh - but, of course, no discount. I hear he's still alive with all his money, living in Pacific, selling his guitar & music books. Roy, if you are near Mel's age - you are a geezer! Congratulations on making it this far. Hope you've left your memories on a disc somewhere. Gary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Roy Johnson" <roy.w.johnson@att.net> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 7:36 PM Subject: RE: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > Couldn't have been Mel Bay. He was a friend of mine. I'm an old geezer > but not that old. Mel had to be born some time around 1900. > > Roy Johnson > Researching Schnake/Schnacke in Kreis Minden (Westfalen/Westphalia) and > worldwide > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~schnake > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Gary Stoltman [mailto:stopan@optonline.net] > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:53 PM > To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > Hi Marian: > > Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there > was > more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana > Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - > the > Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. > > Gary Stoltman > Merverville, NJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the > musician > was > > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g > grandfather > > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know > who > it > > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed > down in > > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure > was!) > > Marian > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing > old > German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To > subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com > (Mail > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, > cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that > concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes > and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an > appropriate topic. To subscribe click on > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail > Mode) or > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Gary! I still have some of my grandfather's Exposition shares - evidently he didn't even reap your progenitors' 5%! - with which I can of course decoratively/tastefully line my bathroom walls if I so choose. Peter

Couldn't have been Mel Bay. He was a friend of mine. I'm an old geezer but not that old. Mel had to be born some time around 1900. Roy Johnson Researching Schnake/Schnacke in Kreis Minden (Westfalen/Westphalia) and worldwide http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~schnake -----Original Message----- From: Gary Stoltman [mailto:stopan@optonline.net] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:53 PM To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis Hi Marian: Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there was more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - the Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. Gary Stoltman Merverville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the musician was > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g grandfather > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know who it > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed down in > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure was!) > Marian > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

I'm still trying to find what kind of musicians my grgrgrandparents, Phillip and Maria Kuhl, were in St. Louis. They were listed on the ships list, and on the 1880 census as musicians. Just can't find anywhere where they were musicians. Wondered if they worked as musicians on the ship for passage. Donna Fickenwirth, Kuhl, Herzog

That was way to early for Joe Schirmer. My grandparents attended this event and I have some things from the Fair. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan@optonline.net> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:53 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > Hi Marian: > > Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there was > more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana > Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - the > Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. > > Gary Stoltman > Merverville, NJ > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the musician > was > > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g > grandfather > > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know who > it > > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed > down in > > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure was!) > > Marian > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or > historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in > German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old > German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To > subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Hi Marian: Don't think it was Joe Schirmer or Mel Bay! Just gotta' believe there was more than one mandolin players at the Fair - officially The Louisiana Purchase Exposistion of 1904. This wasn't a 'backwoodsy' country fair - the Olympics were also held there and over a million people attended. Gary Stoltman Merverville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 2:20 AM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the musician was > in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g grandfather > was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know who it > was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed down in > my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure was!) > Marian > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Have you tried a web search using St. Louis World's Fair 1904 mandolin? I came up with a whole bunch of stuff and didn't have time to check it all out. I think the mandolin was quite popular then and there may have been a number of groups who used it at the fair. Roy Johnson Researching Schnake/Schnacke in Kreis Minden (Westfalen/Westphalia) and worldwide http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~schnake -----Original Message----- From: MARIANDGEN@aol.com [mailto:MARIANDGEN@aol.com] Sent: Wednesday, April 28, 2004 1:20 AM To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis Would you (or anyone else on this list) happen to know who the musician was in the World's Fair in St. Louis who played the mandolin? My g grandfather was musically inspired by someone who was at the fair and I don't know who it was...supposedly someone well known. Mandolin playing has been passed down in my family since then (although I'm not any good at it - my Dad sure was!) Marian ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

My grandmother was born the day the St. Louis Fair opened, and according to family stories, her parents were asked if she could be displayed in a new "incubator" but they said no. I don't blame them! I'm sure they thought this new-fangled thing might be dangerous to her. She was their first child, and I believe my great grandmother had been told by then not to try to have any more children. She did have one more, and died. So they were probably being wise not to put the child at risk in this "new-fangled incubator". Sherry Sherry Mason Vitalworks P.O. Box 83 Whitestown, IN 46075 317-769-6455 **************************************************Go Pacers! > -----Original Message----- > From: Roy Johnson [mailto:roy.w.johnson@att.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:55 PM > To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Spam:Spam:RE: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > For a whole bunch of URLs about the World's Fair go to > http://emints.more.net/ethemes/resources/S00000028.shtml > > I think many of them are for teachers teaching about the fair > but they look very informative. > > Lots of stuff on the fair can be found by a google search. > > Roy Johnson > Researching Schnake/Schnacke in Kreis Minden > (Westfalen/Westphalia) and worldwide > http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~schnake > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Emily Nottingham [mailto:GabeBen1@cox.net] > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 8:14 PM > To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > Thanks. I had been wondering when the St. Louis world's fair > was. My grandmother had told me she had returned to St. > Louis for the fair as a youngster, but couldn't remember the year. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <LuvKUHawks@aol.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2004 4:40 PM > Subject: [Germans-STL] 1903 & 1905 St. Louis > > > > I don't know if anyone would be interested in any of this > or if it is > even > > appropriate to post this. > > I found a 1903 diary in which my grandfather recorded two months of > entries, > > and the 1905 diary that my grandmother kept. Several of you have > helped > to > > track down the Kinloch office mentioned in Grandma's diary. I have > taken > notes > > on some places and thought perhaps some of you might find them of > interest. > > My grandparents were William and Helena Gaul Weitz, who were married > in > St. > > Louis in 1905. > > > > 1903: "the Columbia" to a show > > Castle Square (I can't tell if this is a place or a > performing group. > My > > grandparents saw several different operas there or performed by the > group) > > a dance at "the Benton" > > Mrs. Beucky's/Beuky's Dancing School > > Jim's Minstrel Show > > "the Century" > > Ellery's Band at the Music Hall > > a James O'Neill show > > > > 1905: > > different shows at "the Highlands" > > Compton Hill Church > > to "the Garrick, our new theater" > > the Victor office (my note: I am wondering if this is another > telephone > > company > > office similar to the Kinloch office) > > beautiful music at "the Olympic" > > WCTU meeting at Anchor Hall > > dinner at Besch's Garden > > 8/27/1905 entry - one year ago they went to "the Fair" - the 1904 > World's > > Fair in > > St. Louis > > Grandpa went "to the ball game" (my note - professional baseball > team???) > > to "the Alps" - to the orchestra > > saw a play at "the Odeon" > > Veiled Prophet Parade > > dance at Westminster Hall > > supper at Milford's > > > > Further information on any of these would be of interest. Thank you. > > Frances > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A > virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a > RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms > etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscr ibe (list mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. 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