Hi, The Rehmers I am thinking of lived in Berkeley in the 80s and 90s and may still live there. There was a Vanderwal who volunteered at the USO at the Airport and I think he was a minister. I think I spelled the name correctly. The other names don't ring a bell. Bye, Betty Leroy Rehmer <weber5227@sbcglobal.net> wrote: Betty, I'm not sure if they did or not. My in-laws moved to Mt. Pleasant St. in S.St.L. in 1942 and lived there until they died in 1972 & 1980. Mom Rehmer had some "cousins" who lived in Jennings, but they were "Mehring's". I also had some "Schubert" and "Vanderwal" cousins from Riverview Gardens. Do any of hose names sound familiar? Lorraine ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Betty, I'm not sure if they did or not. My in-laws moved to Mt. Pleasant St. in S.St.L. in 1942 and lived there until they died in 1972 & 1980. Mom Rehmer had some "cousins" who lived in Jennings, but they were "Mehring's". I also had some "Schubert" and "Vanderwal" cousins from Riverview Gardens. Do any of hose names sound familiar? Lorraine

Hi, Did any of your Rehmer family live in Berkeley, MO? Betty in St. Louis Leroy Rehmer <weber5227@sbcglobal.net> wrote: I've lived in South St. Louis for 70 years, and Carondolet has always had the "let" in its pronounciation. I always heard it as "Ca-ron-do-let" Also the little "river" there is pronounced "River dePear" (or fondly as "river de stink)! Don't let anyone belittle St. Louis weather...we have had several "cold waves" this summer. the high today is 75!!!! RESORT WEATHER! Lorraine in beautiful downtown Affton, MO ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

Bill, where do you live that you were driving south on 170? I live in North County also. Betty kimbuc4@juno.com wrote: Tor those interested, This morning I had the occasion to be driving south on I-170 and just south of I-70 I noticed a Bill Board advertising Lemp Beer. Didn't have time to see any of the details. Bill Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

I've lived in South St. Louis for 70 years, and Carondolet has always had the "let" in its pronounciation. I always heard it as "Ca-ron-do-let" Also the little "river" there is pronounced "River dePear" (or fondly as "river de stink)! Don't let anyone belittle St. Louis weather...we have had several "cold waves" this summer. the high today is 75!!!! RESORT WEATHER! Lorraine in beautiful downtown Affton, MO

Tor those interested, This morning I had the occasion to be driving south on I-170 and just south of I-70 I noticed a Bill Board advertising Lemp Beer. Didn't have time to see any of the details. Bill Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

Whilst on the subject, I though that I'd toss a couple of my stories into the mix: One great-grandfather, Philip(p) RUDOLPH, originally of Sindringen, Württemberg, was a teamster/driver for the Lafayette Brewery around the 1880 period and perhaps on into the '90s. It was said that on account of his considerable physique (6'6''), he could lift the large wooden kegs onto his shoulders with ease. It's very possible that my grandfather, Peter SCHUCK, and his eldest brother, Herman SCHUCK, took out a loan from Anheuser-Busch when they purchased the saloon/grocery on 2nd St. belonging to their father, Philip Jacob SCHUCK, originally of Obermoschel in the Rhenish Palatinate, during the first decade of the 20th century upon the latter's retirement. I say this because a relatively few years later the late August A. Busch would of occasion pull up to the establishment in his hot convertible with its alligator leather interior to visit. And of course the SCHUCKs were occasional visitors to Busch Gardens, as well as later to the Bevo Mill. If any of the above rings true with anyone on the List, particularly the contents of the first paragraph, I'd very much like to hear about it - thanks! Peter Schuck

Am enjoying all these brewery stories. I live in St. Louis County, but grew up in Illinois. Betty in St. Louis Co. Gary Stoltman <stopan@optonline.net> wrote: Hi Mary: The 1875 Pictorial St Louis shows the brewery as Excelsior Brewery, C. Koehler, proprietor. Situated at 2211 S. 7th St. No date of beginning shown. Mentions starting capital of $125,000. "Turns out about 1,200 barrels yearly. Eighteen production hands are employed. Five wagons are daily employed for city delivery while outside trade in ahead of local consumption." Some research shows that in the early 50s, Camp Street Brewery that had been owned by Joseph Uhrig between 18th & 19th on Market (his brother Franz ran "Uhrig's Cave" - a famous 'beergarten' ca 1852 - near Jefferson & Lucas Ave. It stored it's Camp's beer in the cool limestone caves underneath the garden.). Later, the brewery had somehow come into control of his partner, Kraul. After Kraul's death, Caspar Koehler and Petrer Saussenthaler added substantialy to these buildins and made capital improvements. The buildings were later removed to make room for the new Union Depot (prior to Union Station- 1875). The brewery was then united with the Winklemyers Union Brewery (est. 1845) at 17th & Market. Koehler's sons later founded the Columbia Brewery after the retirement of their father. Good hunting Gry Stoltman Mercerville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Reeves" To: Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Excelsior Brewery > Dear Mary, > > There were between 40-53 breweries in existence in the mid to late 1800's in St. Louis. I learned this doing some research on my great-grandfather who worked as a clerk in the office at the Lemp Brewery (strange family, the Lemps). A few of my other family members were listed as having been brewey workers in census info too. I vaguely remembered Excelsior as having been listed and looked it up again. Excelsor was in business from 1876-1899, after which time in was absorbed by St. Louis Brewers. Found the article at the web address below. > > www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/beer.htm > > Kay > > Shamrock1020@aol.com wrote: > Hi Listers, > > I have learned that my g.g.grandfather was a proprietor for the Excelsior > Brewery in St. Louis. Has anyone heard of this brewery??? This would have > been in 1876 or so. > > Thanks. > > Mary > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

The more I think about it, I am wondering if it was Ernst Erler/Ehrler's father who was "private secretary to Augie Busch," as my mother long ago told me. Frances

My grandfather used to do furnace and plumbing work for Augie Busch. I assume this was Augustus Busch. Sherry Sherry Mason Vitalworks P.O. Box 83 Whitestown, IN 46075 317-769-6455 **************************************************Go Pacers! > -----Original Message----- > From: LuvKUHawks@aol.com [mailto:LuvKUHawks@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:15 AM > To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Germans-STL] Busch & Breweries > > > Just to add my tidbit - my mother's first cousin, Ernst > Erler, was said to be > (in family legend) the private secretary to Augie Busch. I > do not know which > Mr. Busch that would be. Any thoughts on how to confirm this > information. Thank you in advance for your help. Frances > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical > or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting > written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th > Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, > names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send > subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new > Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. > Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=> 4930&sourceid=1237 >

Dear Listers, I have been really enjoying reading and sharing all this interesting information on the breweries and metal foundries. Considering the number that existed in St. Louis in the latter half of the 19th century, it is not surprising how many of us who are descendants of German immigrants had a least one of our ancestors involved with the brewery in some way or another. My one maternal great grandfather was a clerk at the Lemp Brewery; several other members of my mothers side of the family worked for the brewery either as plumbers or on the bottling lines. My other maternal great grandfather was a machinist (tool and die). One of his sons followed him into the profession. I am not sure, however, for which company they might have worked. Kay Sherry Mason <sherrymason@vitalworks.com> wrote: My grandfather used to do furnace and plumbing work for Augie Busch. I assume this was Augustus Busch. Sherry Sherry Mason Vitalworks P.O. Box 83 Whitestown, IN 46075 317-769-6455 **************************************************Go Pacers! > -----Original Message----- > From: LuvKUHawks@aol.com [mailto:LuvKUHawks@aol.com] > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 9:15 AM > To: GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [Germans-STL] Busch & Breweries > > > Just to add my tidbit - my mother's first cousin, Ernst > Erler, was said to be > (in family legend) the private secretary to Augie Busch. I > do not know which > Mr. Busch that would be. Any thoughts on how to confirm this > information. Thank you in advance for your help. Frances > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > OLD-GERMAN-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical > or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting > written documents in German from earliest to most recent 20th > Century times, and discussing old German words, phrases, > names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send > subscribe to mailto:OLD-GERMAN-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail > Mode) or mailto:OLD-GERMAN-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new > Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. > Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=> 4930&sourceid=1237 > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) ============================== Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - 100MB free storage!

I do not know! We said Car-ohn-de-let Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks ----- Original Message ----- From: "eddihix" <eddihix@email.msn.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:28 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Iron molders in St. Louis > Bob, How do you pronounce "Carondelet"? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr@rollanet.org> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Iron molders in St. Louis > > > > Several iron foundries in St. Louis. Carondelet was a big one. > > > > > > Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kathy Wieland" <kathy@craftsbykathy.com> > > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:28 PM > > Subject: [Germans-STL] Iron molders in St. Louis > > > > > > > Hello List! > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a Vincent Wieland born in 1848 who is an iron molder. I was > > > > > > told that this person would be a tool & die maker. He is listed as > > > > > > an iron molder in many St. Louis City Directories, but there are gaps. > > > > > > After 1903, he is no longer listed in the directory, but I cannot find a > > > > > > resting place for him. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm suspecting that he went to work somewhere. Does anyone out > > > > > > there know anything about iron molding or locations where St. Louis > > > > > > iron molders might have been employed from 1880 - 1910? His > > > > > > wife, a midwife, is not listed as his widow until 1919. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for any insights, information, or help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathlyn Goedeker Wieland > > > > > > Goedeker, Wieland, Schott of Apple Creek, MO, Reeder, Schweninger, > Tucci, > > > Sykora > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list > > mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list > > related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > > > ============================== > > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

<< a street in Clayton named Carondelet>> Hi Paulette: The folks in Clayton pronounce it the same way. During my time theree, I never heard it differently. Welcome back. Gary Stoltman Mercerville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <RiverbluffBlues@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, August 09, 2004 1:17 AM Subject: [Germans-STL] Carondelet > Hi everyone, after almost a year (hard drive crashed) I've finally gotten > back on line. Nobody could be happier than me. I noticed the emails about > Carondelet. Since I grew up there and my Dad's family lived there before it was > annexed by St. Louis (1870), I thought I would jump in. Residents always > called it Carondele"t" nor "Carondelay". The town was named for the Spanish > governor who actually was Flemish (see below-also correct pronunciation). My family > never referred to themselves as living in South St. Louis. They always > referred to themselves as living in Carondelet. I can't remember the name of the > movie, it escapes me now - it was the one with Kevin Costner and the JFK murder > conspiracy. Anyway, in the movie the street in New Orleans by that named was > also pronounced Carondele"t". like the area in South St. Louis. The only > time I have ever heard it pronounced Carondelay was in a bookstore in Clayton. > There is a street in Clayton named Carondelet. It was named after the town of > Carondelet so I would think the correct pronunciation would be what the > natives of Carondelet called it. Not that that couldn't be wrong - look at the way > the River des Peres is mispronounced. Was it Tom Brokaw who pronounced it > correctly in 1993 (the flood) and created a stir? > > Nice to be back, > Paulette > > FROM: > http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/Carondel.html > Carondelet, Francisco Luis Hector, baron de[frAnthEs´kO lOOEs´ ektOr´ bArOn´ > dA kArOndAlet´], c.1748–1807, governor of Louisiana (1791–97) and West > Florida (1791–95), b. Noyelles, Flanders. He married into the Las Casas family, > prominent in Spanish colonial affairs. He came to New Orleans from the > governorship of Salvador and was unfortunately not well informed about Louisiana > problems. Ignorant of the English language and local customs, and faced with > conflicting rumors of American hostility, he became convinced in 1792 that the > Americans were planning to invade Louisiana. With unwarranted aggressiveness, he > stirred up the Native Americans of the Southwest, concluding an alliance with four > great tribes and establishing Spanish posts in their territory. He revived > intrigues with Kentucky frontiersmen looking toward the establishment of an > independent state in the West. Relations between Spain and the United States were > severely taxed. After Carondelet was replaced by Manuel Gayoso de Lemos, he was > made president of the audiencia and governor-general of Quito (1799–1807). > See A. P. Whitaker, The Spanish-American Frontier, 1783–1795 (1927, repr. > 1969). > > From: > http://gatewayno.com/history/Carondelet.html > > Francisco Luis Hector de Carondelet, b. July 29, 1747, d. Aug. 10, 1807, was > the Spanish governor-general of Louisiana and West Florida in the period > following the American Revolution. A Fleming, he was named Spanish governor of San > Salvador in 1789. Then, in 1791, he was posted to New Orleans. By military > reorganization, the construction of forts, and an alliance (1793) with the > Southern Indian tribes, Carondelet kept the American frontiersmen from advancing > westward for a decade. He continued the so-called Spanish Conspiracy with he U.S. > double-agent James Wilkinson. At the same time, he quelled attempts to > overthrow the government in Louisiana and West Florida and made notable economic > improvements in these Spanish provinces, particularly in New Orleans and its > environs. Leaving Louisiana in 1797, Carondelet was president of Quito from 1799 > to 1807. > Bibliography: Holmes, J. D. L., Gayoso: The Life of a Spanish Governor in the > Mississippi Valley 1789-1799 (1965); Whitaker, A. P., The Spanish-American > Frontier, 1783-1795 (1927; repr. 1969) > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ >

Hi Pam: William Stumpf reportedly established the brewery in 1852. In 1875, the Stumpf's Brewery, Saloon & Malt House was located near Ann & Decatur St.(now 9th St.) in South StL. Willaim Lemp had partnered with him for some time before striking out to start the Lemp Brewery. There is also a Frederich Stumpf mentioned as a brewer, also in the Russell St. area of S. StL in the 1860s. (German Element in StL) Good hunting Gary Stoltman Mercerville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: <PWEBER02@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 10:17 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Stumpf Brewery > Does anyone have info on the Stumpf Brewery?? According to family history, > my grandmothers family owned or ran it. Any help would be appreciated. > > Pam > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi Mary: The 1875 Pictorial St Louis shows the brewery as Excelsior Brewery, C. Koehler, proprietor. Situated at 2211 S. 7th St. No date of beginning shown. Mentions starting capital of $125,000. "Turns out about 1,200 barrels yearly. Eighteen production hands are employed. Five wagons are daily employed for city delivery while outside trade in ahead of local consumption." Some research shows that in the early 50s, Camp Street Brewery that had been owned by Joseph Uhrig between 18th & 19th on Market (his brother Franz ran "Uhrig's Cave" - a famous 'beergarten' ca 1852 - near Jefferson & Lucas Ave. It stored it's Camp's beer in the cool limestone caves underneath the garden.). Later, the brewery had somehow come into control of his partner, Kraul. After Kraul's death, Caspar Koehler and Petrer Saussenthaler added substantialy to these buildins and made capital improvements. The buildings were later removed to make room for the new Union Depot (prior to Union Station- 1875). The brewery was then united with the Winklemyers Union Brewery (est. 1845) at 17th & Market. Koehler's sons later founded the Columbia Brewery after the retirement of their father. Good hunting Gry Stoltman Mercerville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kay Reeves" <kay_r2@yahoo.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 7:56 AM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Excelsior Brewery > Dear Mary, > > There were between 40-53 breweries in existence in the mid to late 1800's in St. Louis. I learned this doing some research on my great-grandfather who worked as a clerk in the office at the Lemp Brewery (strange family, the Lemps). A few of my other family members were listed as having been brewey workers in census info too. I vaguely remembered Excelsior as having been listed and looked it up again. Excelsor was in business from 1876-1899, after which time in was absorbed by St. Louis Brewers. Found the article at the web address below. > > www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/beer.htm > > Kay > > Shamrock1020@aol.com wrote: > Hi Listers, > > I have learned that my g.g.grandfather was a proprietor for the Excelsior > Brewery in St. Louis. Has anyone heard of this brewery??? This would have > been in 1876 or so. > > Thanks. > > Mary > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > --------------------------------- > Do you Yahoo!? > New and Improved Yahoo! Mail - Send 10MB messages! > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi everyone, after almost a year (hard drive crashed) I've finally gotten back on line. Nobody could be happier than me. I noticed the emails about Carondelet. Since I grew up there and my Dad's family lived there before it was annexed by St. Louis (1870), I thought I would jump in. Residents always called it Carondele"t" nor "Carondelay". The town was named for the Spanish governor who actually was Flemish (see below-also correct pronunciation). My family never referred to themselves as living in South St. Louis. They always referred to themselves as living in Carondelet. I can't remember the name of the movie, it escapes me now - it was the one with Kevin Costner and the JFK murder conspiracy. Anyway, in the movie the street in New Orleans by that named was also pronounced Carondele"t". like the area in South St. Louis. The only time I have ever heard it pronounced Carondelay was in a bookstore in Clayton. There is a street in Clayton named Carondelet. It was named after the town of Carondelet so I would think the correct pronunciation would be what the natives of Carondelet called it. Not that that couldn't be wrong - look at the way the River des Peres is mispronounced. Was it Tom Brokaw who pronounced it correctly in 1993 (the flood) and created a stir? Nice to be back, Paulette FROM: http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/Carondel.html Carondelet, Francisco Luis Hector, baron de[frAnthEs´kO lOOEs´ ektOr´ bArOn´ dA kArOndAlet´], c.1748–1807, governor of Louisiana (1791–97) and West Florida (1791–95), b. Noyelles, Flanders. He married into the Las Casas family, prominent in Spanish colonial affairs. He came to New Orleans from the governorship of Salvador and was unfortunately not well informed about Louisiana problems. Ignorant of the English language and local customs, and faced with conflicting rumors of American hostility, he became convinced in 1792 that the Americans were planning to invade Louisiana. With unwarranted aggressiveness, he stirred up the Native Americans of the Southwest, concluding an alliance with four great tribes and establishing Spanish posts in their territory. He revived intrigues with Kentucky frontiersmen looking toward the establishment of an independent state in the West. Relations between Spain and the United States were severely taxed. After Carondelet was replaced by Manuel Gayoso de Lemos, he was made president of the audiencia and governor-general of Quito (1799–1807). See A. P. Whitaker, The Spanish-American Frontier, 1783–1795 (1927, repr. 1969). From: http://gatewayno.com/history/Carondelet.html Francisco Luis Hector de Carondelet, b. July 29, 1747, d. Aug. 10, 1807, was the Spanish governor-general of Louisiana and West Florida in the period following the American Revolution. A Fleming, he was named Spanish governor of San Salvador in 1789. Then, in 1791, he was posted to New Orleans. By military reorganization, the construction of forts, and an alliance (1793) with the Southern Indian tribes, Carondelet kept the American frontiersmen from advancing westward for a decade. He continued the so-called Spanish Conspiracy with he U.S. double-agent James Wilkinson. At the same time, he quelled attempts to overthrow the government in Louisiana and West Florida and made notable economic improvements in these Spanish provinces, particularly in New Orleans and its environs. Leaving Louisiana in 1797, Carondelet was president of Quito from 1799 to 1807. Bibliography: Holmes, J. D. L., Gayoso: The Life of a Spanish Governor in the Mississippi Valley 1789-1799 (1965); Whitaker, A. P., The Spanish-American Frontier, 1783-1795 (1927; repr. 1969)

Hi Kathy: Not found. Have the following: Page 181 of 2nd Ward East of the 1870 census shows him as "foundry man" as a 21 yr old. His mother is from France and father, John 53, from Bavaria. All children are shown as born in France. Possibly simply ditto'd after mother's name? He is the eldest shown at home. FYI. No Vincent found at St Louis Public Lib obit site from 1903-1922. These are the Wieland death dates (or the report dates) in the St Louis Post Dispatch on the days listed below (believe * is burial permit issued). WIEGAND, M. E. *8/15/1905 WIELAND, FRANK X. 12/27, *12/29/1905 WIELAND, JOHN 5/21, *5/23/1905 WIELAND, ROSA *2/24/1908 Wieland, Jacob 12/28/1910 Wieland, Victoria B. 7/16/1910 Wieland, Gottlieb 10/16/1912 p16 Wieland, John C. 2/27/1913 p18 Wieland, Emelia Anna (see Nash) 1915 Wieland, F. *1/11/1915 p15 Wieland, Johanna (nee Cudahy) 11/301917 p21 Wieland, Mabel A. 1//1917 p17 Wieland, Marie 1/27/1917 p10 Wieland, Richard J. 1/9/1917 p17 WIELAND, CECELIA (see Korte) 1918 WIELAND, ELIZABETH (nee Druster) 5/29/1919 WIELAND, JOSEPH 5/26, *5/28/1919 Theodore 10/22/1920 Wieland, __na *4/12/1922 p28 Wieland, Laura Pauline (see Williams) 1922 Wieland, Mary E. 8/2/1922 p21, *8/4 p11 Good hunting Gary Stoltman Mercerville, NJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Kathy Wieland" <kathy@craftsbykathy.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 9:28 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Iron molders in St. Louis > Hello List! > > > > I have a Vincent Wieland born in 1848 who is an iron molder. I was > > told that this person would be a tool & die maker. He is listed as > > an iron molder in many St. Louis City Directories, but there are gaps. > > After 1903, he is no longer listed in the directory, but I cannot find a > > resting place for him. > > > > I'm suspecting that he went to work somewhere. Does anyone out > > there know anything about iron molding or locations where St. Louis > > iron molders might have been employed from 1880 - 1910? His > > wife, a midwife, is not listed as his widow until 1919. > > > > Thank you for any insights, information, or help. > > > > Kathlyn Goedeker Wieland > > Goedeker, Wieland, Schott of Apple Creek, MO, Reeder, Schweninger, Tucci, > Sykora > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Does anyone have info on the Stumpf Brewery?? According to family history, my grandmothers family owned or ran it. Any help would be appreciated. Pam

Carondelet was never pronounced the French way that I heard, even though that's old South St. Louis, and the French got there first. Pronounced the way it looks, does not rhyme with Chevrolet. I was born and raised in Kirkwood. Hope that's how you heard it, Bob in the beautiful Ozarks. St. Louis/ Saint Louis was never pronounced San Louiee either. Maureen

It is pronounced "Ka ron duh let" On Sun, 8 Aug 2004 19:28:31 -0500 "eddihix" <eddihix@email.msn.com> writes: > Bob, How do you pronounce "Carondelet"? > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr@rollanet.org> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, August 08, 2004 4:51 AM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Iron molders in St. Louis > > > > Several iron foundries in St. Louis. Carondelet was a big one. > > > > > > Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks > > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Kathy Wieland" <kathy@craftsbykathy.com> > > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > > Sent: Friday, August 06, 2004 8:28 PM > > Subject: [Germans-STL] Iron molders in St. Louis > > > > > > > Hello List! > > > > > > > > > > > > I have a Vincent Wieland born in 1848 who is an iron molder. I > was > > > > > > told that this person would be a tool & die maker. He is listed > as > > > > > > an iron molder in many St. Louis City Directories, but there are > gaps. > > > > > > After 1903, he is no longer listed in the directory, but I > cannot find a > > > > > > resting place for him. > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm suspecting that he went to work somewhere. Does anyone out > > > > > > there know anything about iron molding or locations where St. > Louis > > > > > > iron molders might have been employed from 1880 - 1910? His > > > > > > wife, a midwife, is not listed as his widow until 1919. > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for any insights, information, or help. > > > > > > > > > > > > Kathlyn Goedeker Wieland > > > > > > Goedeker, Wieland, Schott of Apple Creek, MO, Reeder, > Schweninger, > Tucci, > > > Sykora > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > (list > > mode) or > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > > (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com > for list > > related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to > > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > > > > > ============================== > > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new > Immigration > > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn > more. > > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. > A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a > RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms > etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > > > ============================== > > You can manage your RootsWeb-Review subscription from > > http://newsletters.rootsweb.com/ > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a > genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. > Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or > why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or > former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > (Mail Mode) or > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >