Hi, So sorry to learn of the difficulty in your research. I admire your tenacity! Perhaps you will have a breakthrough. My gGrandfather is very elusive also but I have spent much less time than you. Could you tell me in which court these records were destroyed, like district court, federal court,etc.? Thank you! best regards, Linda

If you're talking about Melvina Connelly (I bet I spelled her last name wrong), someone has their wires crossed, big time. I was there in St. Louis the year before she retired and you couldn't ask for a better genealogy-friendly person than she is. She personally worked with me to find my great-grandfather's naturalization records from 1856 and made sure I had a quiet corner near her office to do my research. She even offered me refreshments. I have never been treated so well in all my 40+ years of doing genealogy. I remember her showing me the original handwritten ledgers and I the reverent way she handled them. I saw first-hand her deep regard for the records. I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to start a flame here, but I just wanted to set the record straight (at least from my standpoint). Linda (in Arizona) ----- Original Message ----- From: <GKGATES@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:30 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] RE: Henry B.Kerkmann search > In a message dated 2/1/04 2:44:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, > bdoerr@rollanet.org writes: > > > > But the card files were then a mess; I understand that they were > > later re-organized, and filmed by the LDS. > > > > Right, but only the declarations. > > The professional genealogist I hired a couple years ago had firsthand > knowledge of the incident. She had done a search in the basement of the courts > building and said the naturalization records had not been refiled so they were in > boxes everywhere. She told me that her son was an Eagle Scout and they > offerred to sort out the "mess" as a project - but the woman in charge told them she > "didn't want a bunch of kids running around there." Subsequently the woman in > charge of the records dept had them destroyed and thank goodness, she > retired a few years ago and the people replacing her know the value of the records. > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Not all of those records were destroyed. I found my key ones there in the early 1990s. But the card files were then a mess; I understand that they were later re-organized, and filmed by the LDS. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks ----- Original Message ----- From: <GKGATES@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:58 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] RE: Henry B.Kerkmann search > > RE: my grandfather, Henry Bernard Kerkmann, Stairbuilder, who came to > America in 1889. Born October 16, 1861; married to Marie Fathauer (Vatthauer) > November 19, 1891 in St. Louis, Missouri; Died March 29, 1917 in St. Louis, > Missouri. > > I have searched every document I can think of in the St. Louis area with no > success in finding my grandfather's town of origin in Germany. All the records > simply say "Germany." I've been at this for over then years. > > After no response from the Civil Courts where the naturalization records were > kept, I hired a professional researcher to go to the Courts Dept. to find > his naturalization papers. Disappointedly, she discovered that in 1980, the > person in charge at the Civil Courts Records Dept. decided they were in too much > of a mess and destroyed them all and kept just the Declaration index cards! > She did find his card which is dated 1895 and says "Germany." > > If anyone on the list has any book or source that he might be in, please > check for me. I also haven't been able to access any German newspapers, so I > would appreciate any help in that area....or any other ideas! > > Also important to know because it can be confusing - There is another Henry > J. Kerkmann, married to a Margarethe Schnaus who lived in St. Louis at the > about the same time. He is almost the same age as my grandfather (I did a search > on him, too) and there doesn't seem to be any connection to my Kerkmanns. > Also, my grandfather had a son named Henry, born in 1892. > > Thank you! > Glodean Gates > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

RE: my grandfather, Henry Bernard Kerkmann, Stairbuilder, who came to America in 1889. Born October 16, 1861; married to Marie Fathauer (Vatthauer) November 19, 1891 in St. Louis, Missouri; Died March 29, 1917 in St. Louis, Missouri. I have searched every document I can think of in the St. Louis area with no success in finding my grandfather's town of origin in Germany. All the records simply say "Germany." I've been at this for over then years. After no response from the Civil Courts where the naturalization records were kept, I hired a professional researcher to go to the Courts Dept. to find his naturalization papers. Disappointedly, she discovered that in 1980, the person in charge at the Civil Courts Records Dept. decided they were in too much of a mess and destroyed them all and kept just the Declaration index cards! She did find his card which is dated 1895 and says "Germany." If anyone on the list has any book or source that he might be in, please check for me. I also haven't been able to access any German newspapers, so I would appreciate any help in that area....or any other ideas! Also important to know because it can be confusing - There is another Henry J. Kerkmann, married to a Margarethe Schnaus who lived in St. Louis at the about the same time. He is almost the same age as my grandfather (I did a search on him, too) and there doesn't seem to be any connection to my Kerkmanns. Also, my grandfather had a son named Henry, born in 1892. Thank you! Glodean Gates

Thanks Ginny Gary 440 ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ginny C" <ggineil@cybertrails.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 11:26 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Translation help > the book says literally----unique authority of the local prince---- > Ginny in AZ > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan@optonline.net> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 4:42 PM > Subject: [Germans-STL] Translation help > > > > Listers: > > > > Could I have the translation for "eigenbehörig dem Landesherrn?" I believe > it's a "country gentleman" of some sort. Thanks > > > > Gary Stoltman > > Mercerville, NJ > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list > mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list > related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Does anyone know where St. Rose's Church was located? My Grandmother's sister was burried out of there in 1922 and I was wondering if they might have other records on my Grandmother's family. The family lived at 1469 Shawmut Place. Also I was wondering if anyone knew where exactly Valhaila Cemetery is? That is where she was burried. Thank you for your help. Michele Researching TILLMAN(N), ZEILMAN(N) in Osage County and St. Louis, MO

http://www.neworleanschurches.com/baystrose/baystrose.htm This is actually the link to St. Rose of Lima in St. Louis, MO no idea why it says neworleans in the URL http://www.archstl.org/parishes/byname.html archdiocese of STL listings by parish name. There are 2 others listed here, On in Desoto and one in Perryville which are not in St. Louis City or County but in the Archdioceses. http://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods/history/cabanne/churches5.htm more on St. Rose of Lima http://parishesonline.com/scripts/dbgetParishRecord.asp?ID=8644 http://www.interment.net/data/us/mo/stlouis/valhalla/valhalla.htm Valhalla Cemetery This is in St. Charles which is North of St. Louis. Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <MAQUILL159@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 12:46 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] St. Rose's Church > Does anyone know where St. Rose's Church was located? My Grandmother's > sister was burried out of there in 1922 and I was wondering if they might have > other records on my Grandmother's family. The family lived at 1469 Shawmut Place. > Also I was wondering if anyone knew where exactly Valhaila Cemetery is? > That is where she was burried. > Thank you for your help. > Michele > Researching TILLMAN(N), ZEILMAN(N) in Osage County and St. Louis, MO > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Could someone help this lady, please? City directories, perhaps? I posted this to the Metro St. Louis group and the St. Louis GS marriage records have been checked. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Maria Beitzen" <MBei@freenet.de> To: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr@rollanet.org> Sent: Friday, January 30, 2004 7:22 AM Subject: Re: Algermissen > Hallo > Maria Beitzen from the lovely village Algermissen, the neighbor community of > Harsum, greets you. If her great-grandfather writes in his diary he would > have gone to Algermissen, then it can been different mean: 1. the village > Algermissen or 2. the numerous families with names Algermissen who live in > Harsum, Algermissen and also in Missouri. > I am not looking for any Mr. Algermissen. > Do I remember correctly, are you a member of the genealogical society of > Missouri? May I ask you for help? > I am looking for my Urgroßonkel Wilhelm or William Beitze which went 1854 to > St. Louis. Wilhelm married on January 24th 1862. has married Wilhelm in > which church and I don't know the name of his wife. I couldn't find him in > the marriage register of the St. Joseph church. Wilhelm has been baptized as > a Catholic. > Wilhelm Beitze, born on 21 August 1832 in Ummeln (today area of Algermissen) > Parents: Wilhelm Beitze and Sophie Rühmes > I only know some English. I have written this letter with the help of a PC > translation program. > Maria Beitzen from Algermissen > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Bob Doerr" <bdoerr@rollanet.org> > To: <MBei@freenet.de> > Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:57 PM > Subject: Algermissen > > > > Hallo > > > > Mein Ur-Grossvater, Conrad Fehlig, aus Harsum, kennt Herr Algermissen in > > Stadt St. louis. > > > > > > Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks > > > > > > > > > > > > > >

the book says literally----unique authority of the local prince---- Ginny in AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gary Stoltman" <stopan@optonline.net> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, January 31, 2004 4:42 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Translation help > Listers: > > Could I have the translation for "eigenbehörig dem Landesherrn?" I believe it's a "country gentleman" of some sort. Thanks > > Gary Stoltman > Mercerville, NJ > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (list mode) or mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe (digest mode) - Contact mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L archives, go to http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Listers: Could I have the translation for "eigenbehörig dem Landesherrn?" I believe it's a "country gentleman" of some sort. Thanks Gary Stoltman Mercerville, NJ

List members: The Sts. Peter & Paul Parish is having a fund raiser Valentine's Dinner/Dance on Feb 13th - it's a Friday! The dinner and dance will be held in the Franklin Room, which is across the street from the church in the Historic Soulard area - 1919 South 7th Street St. Louis, MO 63104. Phone (314) 231-9923. The Franklin Room is providing the room, dinner, drinks and music at no cost to the parish so all the money goes to the restoration fund (Christmas Manger Fund). The cost is $14.00 per person. They won't be selling tickets at the door so Reservations need to be sent in by 4 February 2004. (They need a count to let the cooks know how much to cook.) They will mail out tickets on the 5th of Feb. I apologize for the delay in sending this announcement to everyone but since AOL was messing up our ability to receive messages from Rootsweb, I didn't want it to get lost. I think all who wish to go still have time to get your reservations in. Thank you. Gloria

You might want to try eBay. I have found all kinds of STL related memorabilia on it. I can't vouch for any of the sellers but just looking can be an education! I did buy a map and list of all the RR stations from 1895 (paid $10 and think I got a treasure!) I have 3 generations of RR (Germans) in my line. Also there is a German society in STL. Try this web site with lots of links. http://www.serve.com/shea/germusa/gastl.htm Good luck! Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <Lsrains99@wmconnect.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 11:47 AM Subject: [Germans-STL] Rudolph Stecher Brewery - Murphysboro - > Hi, > > After my Rudolph Stecher left St Louis (Stecher Cooperage Works) in 1890's he > went to Murphysboro and established his brewery. Was told there are Stecher > Brewery memorabilia collectors in St. Louis...anyone know? thanks!! > > Kindest regards > Linda > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi, After my Rudolph Stecher left St Louis (Stecher Cooperage Works) in 1890's he went to Murphysboro and established his brewery. Was told there are Stecher Brewery memorabilia collectors in St. Louis...anyone know? thanks!! Kindest regards Linda

From your attempt at transcription, it probably reads thus in German: Geliebter Gatte von Ida Ebert (geb. Kanstinger) and lieber Vatter von Francis, Lilith, Hilda und John Ebert. Verstorben am Dienstag, den 15. Juli 1913, am 3 Uhr 45 Minuten Morgens, mit Alter von 45 Jahren, 5 Monaten und 17 Tagen. Leichensbegrabniss Donnerstag den 17. Juli Nachmittags 2 Uhr, von der Familien Wohnung, No. 4225 Broadway. Verwandte und Freunde sind eingeladen sich zu beteiligen. The translation: Beloved husband of Ida Ebert (nee Kanstinger) and dear father of Francis, Lilith, Hilda and John Ebert. Died on Thursday, July 15 at 3:45 o'clock in the morning, at the age of 45 years, 5 months and 17 days. Burial from the family home, number 4225 Broadway, on Thursday, July 17 at 2 p.m. Relatives and friends are invited to attend. Hope this helps. Scott Holl on 1/26/04 9:38 PM, ICE298@aol.com at ICE298@aol.com wrote: > Hi > I found my grandfather's obit in a German newspaper. The type was small, and > of course I couldn't make out some of their special letters, but I have > transcribed it as best I can. > Is there someone out there that can proof read this for me and tell me if I > have the German spellings and/or grammer correct? > Thanks, > Ida Ebert > Troy, Missouri > > JOHN CHRIST EBERT > geliebier matte bon Ida Ebert (geb. Kanstinger) und meuer Bater bon Francis, > Lilth, Hilda und John Ebert. beridied am Dienstag, ben 15 Juli 1913, im 3 Ubr > 45 Minuten Morgens, im Uller bon 45 Raben, 5 Monaten und 17 Tagen. > Leichenbegananiss Donnerstag ben 17 Juli Rachmittags 2Ubr, bon der Familien > mobnung, > No. 4225 N. Broadway. Bermanbte unb Freunbe finb eigelaben fich zu > betbeiligen. > (Daily Westliche Post, [St. Louis, MO] July 16, 1913, page 9) > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-SURNAMES-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural > or historical interest in German surnames, given names, etc. To subscribe > click on mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail > Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-SURNAMES-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe > (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

Hi I found my grandfather's obit in a German newspaper. The type was small, and of course I couldn't make out some of their special letters, but I have transcribed it as best I can. Is there someone out there that can proof read this for me and tell me if I have the German spellings and/or grammer correct? Thanks, Ida Ebert Troy, Missouri JOHN CHRIST EBERT geliebier matte bon Ida Ebert (geb. Kanstinger) und meuer Bater bon Francis, Lilth, Hilda und John Ebert. beridied am Dienstag, ben 15 Juli 1913, im 3 Ubr 45 Minuten Morgens, im Uller bon 45 Raben, 5 Monaten und 17 Tagen. Leichenbegananiss Donnerstag ben 17 Juli Rachmittags 2Ubr, bon der Familien mobnung, No. 4225 N. Broadway. Bermanbte unb Freunbe finb eigelaben fich zu betbeiligen. (Daily Westliche Post, [St. Louis, MO] July 16, 1913, page 9)

I am still looking for information on Joseph and William Scharfenberger who lived in St. Louis in the 19th century. Also looking for information on the death of Joseph's daughter Emma and his wife Maria M. (nee Jenne). Also interested in learning the connection between Maria and Charles Jenne, the wine merchant, of St. Louis. Erven Thoma Respond through the Rootsweb server or use my E-Mail address: ThomaET@aol.com

Seeking ANY info or photos of my STECHER family Stecher Cooperage Works, St Louis, about 1899 Residences:: 3005 S. 7th, 3007 S. 7th, 3008 S. 9th, 927 Wyoming Rudolph, Otto, August, Ignatz, Charles, Henry Stecher Also Rudolph Stecher Brewery Co, M'boro, IL Thank you!

Seifensiedermeister=master soap boiler (or maybe maker). Seife=soap. A synonym in German of Seifensieder is Seifenbereiter (bereiter=preparer). Nervenschlag: A heart attack in German is Herzenschlag, so maybe this means nervous break down. Zahnfieber-epilepsie: Zahn=tooth, Fieber=fever. Maybe this means a seizure brought on by an infected tooth. Kräfteverfall=cachexia=loss of strength(Kraft=strength, Verfall=decay). Speicheldrüsenschwindsucht: Speichel=saliva (spittle), Drüsen=adenoids Schwindsucht=consumption. Maybe this was some sort of tuberculosis or perhaps throat cancer. You might find complete definitions by consulting a German medical dictionary. Hope this helps in the meantime. Scott on 1/11/04 4:49 PM, Ginny C at ggineil@cybertrails.com wrote: > These are German words in my family history which I understand are archaic. > Does anyone know the translations? > Ginny in AZ > > > Nervenschlag died at 11 months > Zahnfieber-epilepsie died at 11 months > Seifensiedermeister-an occupation > Kräfteverfall ? and was weak and blind for many years--died at age 62 > Speicheldrüsenschwindsucht > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural > or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns > traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life > in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To > subscribe click on > mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) > or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest > Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

These are German words in my family history which I understand are archaic. Does anyone know the translations? Ginny in AZ Nervenschlag died at 11 months Zahnfieber-epilepsie died at 11 months Seifensiedermeister-an occupation Kräfteverfall ? and was weak and blind for many years--died at age 62 Speicheldrüsenschwindsucht

The closest library to me, with a genealogy department, is only open 1 day a week but I will try them to see if they can get it for me. Thanks, I had forgotten to even try them. Marian