On the website www.emslanders.com/index.html you can find Burrichter, Herbers - definitely go there - which mentions Stroot and Prekel. This web site lists emigrants from the Emsland region of Germany - towns such as Lingen, meppen, etc. Also go to the website www.stlcathcem.com and click on burial search. Then type in your names. You will find Burrichter and Herbers in the same plot in Calvary cemetery, down a few graves from my Linkogel family. My Theresia Linkogel had a maiden name of Schlangen, which was helena Marie herbers maiden name as well. I believe they were cousins - they were wittnesses at each others weddings. Lastly, be sure to check out the online st. louis probate court records. The actual papers - wills, settlements, etc. have been scanned and are online for you to read. Go to www.sos.mo.gov/archives/stlprobate/Default.asp and type in the last names in which you have interest. I know I have read herbers previously. The records are up to 1900. If you need a photo of the headstones I may be able to help as I will probably visit Calvary this summer. I live in kansas so I cannot help immediately.

I am looking for kin of the folks mentioned below August, 1936..obituary. [Note: Fred Koch is nephew of John Koch who owned the old Koch and Son funeral parlor in North St. Louis, from the 1880s thru 1920.] _KOCH_, Mrs. Josephine, age 60, passed away Thursday. survived by husband, *Fred J. Koch* (formerly of Germantown, Ill; 2 sons, *Joseph and Cornelius Koch*, all of Dallas; 4 daughters, Mrs. Gertrude Schuster [Schusler?], *Miss Francis Koch*, Los Angeles, Cal., *Mrs. B. W. Jones*, Sherman; *Miss Adeline Koch*, Dallas; a brother, Henry A. Westerselhaus[?] (/should be/ Westerfelhaus,) New Baden, Ill. The hour of service will be announced later. For information call Weiland's, directors funeral service, 2909 Live Oak. Allied families in the 1800s were: Diekhof Nonnenkamp Grothues Burrichter Willems Marks Stroot Herbes Pregel Does anyone have ANY information on these folks?

In a message dated 2/2/04 1:49:46 PM Pacific Standard Time, Lsrains99@wmconnect.com writes: > Is the address listed below sufficient to use to seek records for my family > - > no department or any additional information needed? > If you are requesting naturalization records, send it to St. Louis Civil Court Records Dept., Civil Courts Building, 10 N. Tucker Street, St. Louis, Mo 63101.

Some of us went thru this last summer on this site. I contacted St. Louis and was told that this was true. The petitions, with all the info were destroyed. I was also told they would look up the records I needed. I was very appreciative. That was in July or Aug. Have heard nothing since. :-( Donna K. Researching Kuhl, Fickenwirth, Herzog

Is the address listed below sufficient to use to seek records for my family - no department or any additional information needed? Thanks! Linda In a message dated 2/2/2004 1:27:48 PM Eastern Standard Time, GKGATES@aol.com writes: > > St. Louis Civil Court had Naturalization Records for before 1906. (Civil > Courts Building, 10 N. Tucker Street, St. Louis, Mo 63101)

In a message dated 2/1/04 11:11:23 PM Pacific Standard Time, ktlkate@extremezone.com writes: > It's in a beautiful old script handwriting, it has the > witnesses to the naturalization, and it has my great-grandpa's signature on > it. It says he renounces the "kingdom" of Germany Yes, that is the wording in my grandfather's Declaration. The Declarations are still available. They were NOT destroyed. I'm sorry that I mentioned this at all because it seems there is confusion as to what was destroyed and what was retained. There are still Naturalization Records at the Civil Courts Dept. Before 1980 they had BOTH the Petitions and the Declarations, but in 1980, the Petitions were destroyed. The Declarations were retained and they were also microfilmed by LDS in 1984. The Declarations DO say what you quoted in your last message about "renouncing allegiance to Germany, etc." so if anyone doesn't have it, you definitely want to get it. Presumably, the Petitions which were destroyed had more information on them, but now I'll never know for sure. I hope this clears this up and everyone understands that just the naturalizations Petitions for the period before 1980 were destroyed. The Declarations were retained and are available from the Civil Courts Department. Happy Hunting. Glodean St. Louis Civil Court had Naturalization Records for before 1906. (Civil Courts Building, 10 N. Tucker Street, St. Louis, Mo 63101) According to a clerk there,in 1980 all the Petitions were destroyed by the Civil Court Records Department because they hadn't been refiled and were “a mess.” Only the Declarations are remaining and they were microfilmed by LDS in 1984.

This may be of interest to some of you on this list. This email came from someone on our local geno society mail list. I have only had a few minutes to try it, BUT came up with my great grandfather's probate records...even an inventory of the estate, funeral costs etc. I typed Missouri State Archives in google and started there. I hope to have more time there soon as all of my lines are in St. L. Ginny in AZ ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ When searching for records many are on the various paid and free databases online. However, a lot more can be found by searching state archives. Go to your browser and put in the state archives and then see what you get. For instance a search for Illinois state archives will bring up more than one site but one has in its description "online databases" so obviously that is the one you would chose first. Clicking on that site will bring you databases of deaths and marriages in Illinois. A good many of these state archive databases are not on the ordinary sites such as Ancestry, etc. If the page you bring up with records covers more than your screen, be sure to set your printer on landscape when you print it out or you will lose part of the page in printing. Since the part you lose is usually the county or city you definitely do not want to miss that information. Do not search only something that specifically says "online databases". Also, search the library if it is available and look for history links, county and city links. You may also find links to schools, churches, etc. These may not have searchable online databases for everything but it will give you addresses to write for various other records. And the library may have an online catalog. Sometimes you can have research done for you in the state archives library. Sometimes you pay a fee and sometimes it is free. Usually you can buy copies of records and also microfilms. I don't own a microfilm reader but when I ordered microfilms from the state archives library, the public library let me use theirs and their printer to read and copy records from the microfilms. In addition, I found frequently the historical society libraries will have microfilm readers and will let you use them. The Family History Centers of the LDS will too. I usually give the FHC or library the microfilm after I am finished with it as a return gift for the use of the reader and copier. Along the same line are the university libraries. Frequently, their catalogs are online. Sometimes you can borrow books and microfilms on interlibrary loan but not all libraries do interlibrary loans. All state residents can use the state university library though. I was shocked to find several family histories for New England families in the University of Arizona library. Also, microfilms of the abolitionist newspaper one of my ancestors published for several years before Arizona even belonged to the US. You never know what is there until you look.

Well, I don't know where Melvina came up with it, but we found my great-grandpa's naturalization record in an old ledger, and she made me copies...... It's in a beautiful old script handwriting, it has the witnesses to the naturalization, and it has my great-grandpa's signature on it. It says he renounces the "kingdom" of Germany. If I remember rightly, I was in St. Louis in December 2000. I guess she just took pity on this Arizona cowgal who came to look for records in a blinding snowstorm with the only winter clothes I had, a sweatshirt with a hood, jeans and cowgal boots. I must have looked like a refugee from the nether regions! <grin> Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: <SRehm24416@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 9:46 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] RE: Henry B.Kerkmann search > Yes Melvina was a super person. You are absolutely correct in saying you > could not have a better person to help. But she only had the cards to deal with. > The other petitions, or declarations, were thrown out. And we all know how much > information can be gathered on them. Imagine the results we could have. > > Jeff > St. Louis > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237

In a message dated 2/1/04 8:47:28 PM Pacific Standard Time, SRehm24416@aol.com writes: > The other petitions, or declarations, were thrown out To clarify, apparently the declarations were kept but the original petitions were the records that were destroyed. I did get a copy of my grandfather's declaration but his original petition, with all the good info, was among the record tossed out. I actually never heard back or worked with Mel. That was someone else's post.

Yes Melvina was a super person. You are absolutely correct in saying you could not have a better person to help. But she only had the cards to deal with. The other petitions, or declarations, were thrown out. And we all know how much information can be gathered on them. Imagine the results we could have. Jeff St. Louis

There were many documents thrown away in the St. Louis area when there was a big move from one court building to another some years ago. It includes lots of immigration papers that no one, at the time, seemed to think were important. A shame for sure because it makes St. Louis one of the hardest places in the country to research immigration records. If they only knew. Jeff St. Louis

Valhalla Cemetery is located at 7600 St. Charles Rock Road, St. Louis County, Missouri 63133. Phone is 314.721.4900 Good Luck. Jeff St. Louis

Hi Linda, Where are you in AZ.? I am in Tucson. Ginny in AZ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Lambert" <ktlkate@extremezone.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] RE: Henry B.Kerkmann search > If you're talking about Melvina Connelly (I bet I spelled her last name > wrong), someone has their wires crossed, big time. I was there in St. Louis > the year before she retired and you couldn't ask for a better > genealogy-friendly person than she is. She personally worked with me to > find my great-grandfather's naturalization records from 1856 and made sure I > had a quiet corner near her office to do my research. She even offered me > refreshments. I have never been treated so well in all my 40+ years of doing > genealogy. I remember her showing me the original handwritten ledgers and I > the reverent way she handled them. I saw first-hand her deep regard for the > records. > > I'm sorry, I'm not meaning to start a flame here, but I just wanted to set > the record straight (at least from my standpoint). > > Linda (in Arizona) > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: <GKGATES@aol.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 5:30 PM > Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] RE: Henry B.Kerkmann search > > > > In a message dated 2/1/04 2:44:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, > > bdoerr@rollanet.org writes: > > > > > > > But the card files were then a mess; I understand that they were > > > later re-organized, and filmed by the LDS. > > > > > > > Right, but only the declarations. > > > > The professional genealogist I hired a couple years ago had firsthand > > knowledge of the incident. She had done a search in the basement of the > courts > > building and said the naturalization records had not been refiled so they > were in > > boxes everywhere. She told me that her son was an Eagle Scout and they > > offerred to sort out the "mess" as a project - but the woman in charge > told them she > > "didn't want a bunch of kids running around there." Subsequently the > woman in > > charge of the records dept had them destroyed and thank goodness, she > > retired a few years ago and the people replacing her know the value of the > records. > > > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > >

Having trouble with my head tonight -- sorry all -- I just posted a message saying:  BTW, (HOPEFULLY) our next GERMAN ANCESTORS reunion will be in South County in early October; several of these lines were involved in the founding of St. Johns EUCC on Lindbergh....  We have had 4 great reunions previously at St.Johns.  We no longer call it the Schuetz-Theiss-Keller reunion --  too many other lines directly related!!!  More specific info will be posted within a couple of months. I missed the VERY important line of MULLER that donated the land for the church and who was the brother of my gr-gr-grandmother..... So very sorry. Guess I was thinking more about the super-bowl than about my lineages.... and this MULLER line was a very important part of the So County lines! Margie in FL

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:41:53 PM Pacific Standard Time, ktlkate@extremezone.com writes: > If you're talking about Melvina Connelly (I bet I spelled her last name > wrong), someone has their wires crossed, big time I don't know who ordered the destruction of the records or why it was done. It's great that she was helpful for you, and it very possibly was someone higher up than Mel Connelly who called for the files to be cleaned up. In any case, all I can tell you is about my own personal experience. I first wrote to the St. Louis Civil Courts on July1 996 requesting naturalization records for my grandfather, Henry B. Kekmann. Later I called them and was told by a man to direct my request to Mel Conley, Data Processing which I did. I got no reply. I wrote again in 1998 and this time sent it Attn: Mel Conley, Data Processing. No reply. Wrote again in 1999 and that time I enclosed a check for $10.00. Of course I had sent SASEs with all of my letters. I called again and actually talked to Mel and she said she "had something on her desk" from me ...but I never got anything back. Maybe she just didn't like to answer mail. So I went back to my maternal lines and spent time on them. But, in 2003, I decided to pursue the Kerkmann line again and this time I called and talked to Keith Hudson who told me to contact Kathy Grillo, the Records Manager in the Circuit Clerk's Office. I called her and she told me that Mel had retired and the naturalization petitions were destroyed in 1980, but they had the index cards. She said she had been there when they were destroyed and she and Mel complained but "higher ups" said the files were "too messy" (i.e. documents pulled and not refiled, sitting in boxes, etc.) so they were destroyed. Also last year, I hired a professional genealogist in St. Louis and she confirmed that the records had been destroyed and told me the story about doing research in the basement and the messy files and how her son's Eagle scout troop had volunteered to clean up the mess but were turned down. The quote I included in my previous email about not wanting a bunch of scouts running around is what she said someone told them. I have no reason to think she made the story up. That's all I know. Just another brick wall. In my search for my maternal ancestors in Prince George County, Virginia I discovered most of the records were destroyed during the War of 1812 and again by Union soldiers in the Civil War. That's what makes family history research interesting....we're always looking for other sources when the easy one aren't available. But I'm glad you asked. Glodean

Hi -- The line of HENRY HOCH (1808-1872) moves between Bonhomme, Central and Carondelet Twps between 1850 and upwards..... Henry listed his birthplace as Alsace in 1850 and it varies between that and Germany in other years for both Henry and his children. Wondered if anyone else is tracking this line? The HOCH line intermarries into several of my direct lines plus related lines: Schuetz/Schutz, Schultz/Schulz, Theiss, Wohlschlaeger, Diess, Bender, Keller, Juengel, Litzsinger, etc etc..... Would be willing to exchange data with you. BTW, (HOPEFULLY) our next GERMAN ANCESTORS reunion will be in South County in early October; several of these lines were involved in the founding of St. Johns EUCC on Lindbergh.... We have had 4 great reunions previously at St.Johns. We no longer call it the Schuetz-Theiss-Keller reunion -- too many other lines directly related!!! More specific info will be posted within a couple of months. Margie in FL.

Thanks so much for the information. Linda

Hi Bob, Which "court" was this...district, etc.? thanks! Linda ....in beautiful mountains of western North Carolina :-)

In a message dated 2/1/04 2:44:47 PM Pacific Standard Time, bdoerr@rollanet.org writes: > But the card files were then a mess; I understand that they were > later re-organized, and filmed by the LDS. > Right, but only the declarations. The professional genealogist I hired a couple years ago had firsthand knowledge of the incident. She had done a search in the basement of the courts building and said the naturalization records had not been refiled so they were in boxes everywhere. She told me that her son was an Eagle Scout and they offerred to sort out the "mess" as a project - but the woman in charge told them she "didn't want a bunch of kids running around there." Subsequently the woman in charge of the records dept had them destroyed and thank goodness, she retired a few years ago and the people replacing her know the value of the records.

In a message dated 2/1/04 4:01:13 PM Pacific Standard Time, Lsrains99@wmconnect.com writes: > Could you tell me in which court these records were destroyed, like > district > court, federal court,etc.? The Civil Court had naturalization records before 1906. (Civil Courts Building, 10 N. Tucker Street, St. Louis, Mo 63101) Sadly, the Petitions were destroyed by someone who had that authority in 1980. Only the Declarations are remaining and they were microfilmed by LDS in 1984.