Hi Bill While I don't recognize any of these men as being my relatives, I was wondering if there was a way to post the pictures and names to a website? Or donate them to the Genealogical Society or Library for future access and refernece? Ida Troy, MO

While cleaning out some old lodge records came across some membership rosters with photos. These are some rather old St. Louis, Missouri Masonic Lodge Rosters. If any interest in these contact me. Please supply some sort of proof that these men may be related to your family. All these men were most probably born sometime between 1870 and 1900 1907, DANIEL ALEXANDER GILLESPIE 1908, 1916 ANTHONY F. ITTNER 1911, WILLIAM E. ATKINS 1912, ARTHUR J. BRAUER 1916, SOLON CAMERON 1916, CHARLES F. VOGEL 1916, JAMES A. HARRIS 1916, BENJAMIN B. KENNEDY 1916, 1919, 1920 MATTHEW H. HODGSON 1916, 1919 RALEIGH E. SISSON 1916, WILLIAM J. KAFFENBERGER 1916, JEREMIAH S. McILVANEY 1918, ARTHUR H. WINKELMEYER 1919, 1920, 1921 VESTA T. WRAY 1920, RALPH W. MOTTAZ 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1925, HANSON C. KREIDLER 1916, 1920, 1921, 1922, 1923, 1925. JULIAN M. GIBSON 1921, 1922, ARTHUR H. CARRIERE 1916, 1921, 1922, 1923, ROBERT L. LESSLEY 1922, 1923, 1924, JOHN WOHRADSKY, JR. 1923, 1924, 1925, JOSEPH E. WRAY 1924, 1925, EDMUND H. CLAUCAS 1925, GEORGE H. COULSON Bill Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

Bob, The particular St. Rose of Lima church I was looking at is in St. Louis City. But thanks for the information about the other church. I am sure it probably will help someone. Michele

Bill, > I for one appreciated your response. Thank you. > However, I have one question relative to the Index list that you are > currently working on. You stated that at the completion of the list it > would be put on the net! > > My question is will everyone have to join Ancestory.com to view it? Since > this is exactly what happened after many volunteers worked the Death > Index. I was not around when the Society entered into its agreement with Ancestry on the Death Index and have no comment on that - except that I know the index is available electronically at the Society office. The exact mechanism for the naturalization card index on the internet has not been determined. The most likely scenario is that it will be available on the Society website with links on the Missouri archive site and other places. Under no circumstances will it be restricted or will there be any charge. We have this is spelled out in our MOU with the government agencies involved. Bob

I found a new surname married into the Westerholt family - Bunselmeyer. Is anyone researching this name, or any variant thereof? The Westerholt involved was Emma H., b. about 1871 in Missouri (probably City of St. Louis). In her father's probate file (1899), she's referred to as Emma Bunselmeyer, a married woman. In the 1930 census I find Henry and Emma Bunselmeier, ages 56 and 58, living on Cleveland Ave. in the City. The age is appropriate for my Emma. Would anyone be able to provide an entry from the 1900 or 1910 St. Louis censuses? (I'm still looking in 1920). Thank you. __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Finance: Get your refund fast by filing online. http://taxes.yahoo.com/filing.html

Jane. In a response from Linda you stated: "I have never heard the '-kemper' on the end of the name, so I do not believe there is a connection. I am going to try to go through birth records of other relatives as suggested. Thank you for the replies. I need all the help I can get-like finding a needle in a haystack!" Not knowing how far you have gotten, allow me to make an observation. During WW I, many German families changed the spelling of their surnames to make them appear more American., for example in the below name STIEFFERMANN many changed the spelling to STIEFERMAN, STIEFFERMAN and there are others that went as far as STIEF and STIEFER. I once asked a German student how they ever taught their children to spell their names. His comment was many German words are assembled by combining several words to make one word, to do this they just remove the spaces between the words. This also the way you may have to translate German documents into English, one syllable at a time. Additionally you must also remember that many of the emigrants couldn't read and when they were asked for their name they may have given the correct pronunciation, but the emigration official put it down phonetically or at least the way he thought it sounded. Who was to know the difference, since there was no one to verify the mouth to ear to paper transfer. Who was it that made the statement "Let no stone unturned". Bill Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

Bob, I for one appreciated your response. However, I have one question relative to the Index list that you are currently working on. You stated that at the completion of the list it would be put on the net! My question is will everyone have to join Ancestory.com to view it? Since this is exactly what happened after many volunteers worked the Death Index. Bill ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

From around 1855 to 1892 (or so) New York arrivals landed at Castle Garden, also know as Castle Clinton. There are web sites about that location but I am not sure if it would help you find anyone. Just another road for you to travel. Jeff

I have both of the above surnames connected with my family, but haven't really pursued the older generations. That being said all of mine are centered in and around Carlyle, Breese, Highland and Damiansville Clinton County Illinois. What I have found is that many of the families first settled in the Damiansville area and then branched out from there. If you will check the LDS files I am sure you will find quite a number of different areas in Germany where they are both found. I did a quick check and on the IGI files and there are a pile of them there. However, until you can identify the emigrant family you will for the most part spinning your wheels by jumping across the big pond. The first admonition I received from experienced researchers is start with the known then go to the unknown, thus my comment about finding your emigrant ancestor. Bill Buchholz Surnames of Interest: BUCHHOLZ anywhere -BECKMANN-CASSIDY-DeL0NJAY-DREES-MOSBACHER-NENTWIG-NEUTZLER-PONCOT-RENSIN G-STAUDER-STIEFFERMANN ________________________________________________________________ The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!

In recent digests of this fine list, prompted by a query about naturalization records on the surname Kerkmann, there have been several points that I would like to address. (1) There are about 180,000 index cards to naturalization records in St. Louis. These were created by WPA workers in the 1930s. They are (make that were) in three sets, and were indeed in somewhat of a mess. Some of those were microfilmed by LDS. Currently, in cooperation with St. Louis Circuit Courts and Missouri Archives, all those cards are in the temporary possession of the St. Louis Genealogical Society. That organization, of which I am a member and volunteer, is in the process of merging the sets, sorting them by surname/first_name/date, eliminatiing duplicates, and replacing cards that are no longer physical viable. Then the resulting single set will be hardcopied, the set will be microfilmed by Missouri Archives, and an electronic index will be created and posted on the Internet. This project should be completed in May or June. (2) Although the merge is NOT complete, the team is past the "KER" place. I checked ALL the cards in that set and found none with a surname close to Kerkmann. One caveat here is that when I was working recently on the set of roughly sorted surnames beginning with "ME", I found surnames starting with the letters "A", "P", and "R". So, until the project is complete, my lack of finding should be considered tentative. When the project IS complete, each person will be able to do her/his own search. (3) A lot of the postings have focused on the Circuit Court. Prior to the federal era, naturalization steps could have occurred in ANY court - including circuit, criminal, probate, civil, etc. The index cards reflect this. (4) I am looking only at the index cards and not at original court records; however, note that I have seen NO cards that identify an area of origin any finer than a country. I am under the impression that the index cards (at least by design) reflect what was/is on the actual court record. So, looking for more detail than (for example) Germany may not be fruitful. (5) Although I am as frustrated as anyone by records ANYWHERE that have been destroyed (or whatever reason), I am reluctant to castigate the decision makers on anecdotal evidence without knowing all the pressures under which that person was operating. (6) A lot of comments, both pro and con, have been made on this list about Mel Connolly (sp?). I had no personal dealings with her and therefore have nothing to add to the specifics. However, ... It is entirely inappropriate for posters on this, or any other such list, to be criticizing or taking to task ANY public servant by name. If one wishes to complain about the level of service or response received by the XYZ office in ABC city, county, or state, that is good information for other genealogists. When we allow the discussion to reduce to the merits of an identified individual, we diminish ourselves as genealogical researchers. If we REALLY have a problem with an individual or office, there are nearly always people above that person to whom we may complain - and that is both more appropriate and likely more effective than airing our gripes on e-lists. Bob Emnett

How I can sympathize! I have all other lines back to the 1600s (at a minimum some back to the 1400s and 1300s) except my Germans. They like to hide! Some things I have learned...many of the spellings we are used to were fluid and changed even within the same document. Spelling did not get standardized until the middle of the 1900s. So the 1800s is a real challenge. Germans loved multiple names. There was the official name, the name the family called the person, and then there may be several nick names used for specific things. I have several examples of this in my family and others. They would name several children with the same first name like Johann and give each boy a different middle name.. So researching them is a real experience! The family stories used the middle names or the nick names, records could use any combination. My one Great Grandfather was Gottfried Gottlieb Christian Gephardt. He fought in the civil war. He is listed in one record as Gottfries, one as Gottfried, in one as Gebhardt and on the same record later on as Gebhart (no d). When his daughter was killed in a tragic house fire he showed up in the newspaper as Henry...where in the world did that name come from?! So, you see, there is no easy answer and sometimes you have to just research everyone with the same last name and then try to fit the pieces together. Good luck! I have had the best luck with Church records. That might be a good place to start. Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Day" <fordellcastle@yahoo.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 2:54 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Buehne family/no consens? > I have just subscribed to this newsletter a couple > weeks ago, and hope someone can help me. My ancestors > from Germany were named Buehne. I am aware they didn't > have to get naturalized back then-1850s through 1880s, > but as I have gone through ISTG and found nothing I > believe they may have come without 'consens'. I have > searched for the Buehne name with merely a 'u' with > the umlaut rather than the 'ue' and come up empty. We > have relatives in Illinois, but no one can determine > exactly where in Germany they came from. Any advice or > links on how to find this? Also, when people came > without'consens', what were the circumstances of their > voyages and how could they have slipped through the > ports? Were aliases used then? I know buehne means > stage, so perhaps it was a false name? I have been > successful with UK genealogy back to the 1500s. > Germany is giving me fits, and I have promised Mom and > my aunt to find the answers. Thank you for any help. > Jane Henderson > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

I also have Koch in my line. My great-grandmother was Elizabeth Koch born about 1829 in Hannover, Germany. She was married to Gerhard or Henrici Schniederalbers. Some of the records are confusing and various first names show up. He died of cholera in 1862 or 3 (Dec or Jan?) She married Henry (Heinrich) Hempen (not Hempe as the marriage index has it listed) on Nov. 10, 1864 at the Shrine of St. Joseph Catholic Church on 12th and Biddle. The wedding witnesses for the marriage to Henry Hempen were Henry Heger and Elizabeth Schulte. She had a daughter Margaret Caroline Schniederalbers who died as an infant of 1 year and 10 months. Born Nov 26, 1858. Burial was Sept 1860 Holy Trinity Cemetery. Godparents Bernard Schulte and Margaret Carolina Koch. She was baptized at the Shrine of St. Joseph. She also had a son named John Theodore born July 1857 in Missouri. I have not found this birth record. John T. was born Schniederalbers but his marriage record lists him as John Hempen (not Hempe for some reason that last n in the family name is faint on both records and these guys show up as Hempe but if you read the rest of the records it is Hempen which is the family name.) Then with Henry Hempen she had Lizzie born we think in the 1840s, Henry born Oct 1865 and died July 1866. Annie born 1872 or 1873 and died Nov 25, 1904 in St. Louis Have not found these baptismal or birth records yet. Elizabeth died April 1902. Funeral from residence at 1238 N 11th to St. Joseph's Church (Shrine) to Calvary Cemetery. I don't know much more than that. If anyone researching Koch fits into this line I would love to hear from you. Laura ----- Original Message ----- From: <MARIANDGEN@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 9:49 AM Subject: Re: [Germans-STL] Koch, Dieckhof, Nonnenkamp, Grothues, burrichter, Willems > I have some "KOCH's" in my family but I don't know whether or not we have a > connection. My "Koch's" are in the St. Charles, Missouri area and over in > Illinois. They are linked with Buechsenschuetz and Ferber families. I have a > Fritz M. Koch - married Caroline Ferber in 1861. They belonged to St. Paul's > (formerly St. John's Church in St. Charles) and had children: Fred, Emilie, > Heinrich, Ida, Maria and Anna. There was a John Koch who was, apparently, the > brother of Fritz. Fritz married Julia (maiden name unknown) abt 1870 and their > children were: Hermann, Henry, Emma, Annie and Dora. I know that there are more > Koch people in my line in Illinois but I don't have the information on them > yet. If you are interested, I will see what I can get. The KOCH people are > not my direct line which is why I don't have much on them as of yet, however I > do not ONLY work on my direct lines - I just haven't gotten much on the Koch > line yet. I do have another connection in the Illinois area, however, who has > done more on the Koch line and will get that for you if you are interested. > I would be very interested in any information you have on your Koch people > - perhaps I can help to find the connection...if there is one. > Marian > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > LATIN-WORDS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical or historical interest in deciphering and interpreting written documents in Latin from earliest to most recent 20th Century times, and discussing old Latin words, phrases, names, abbreviations and antique jargon. To subscribe, send subscribe to mailto:LATIN-WORDS-L-request@rootsweb.com (Mail Mode) or mailto:LATIN-WORDS-D-request@rootsweb.com (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

I have never heard the '-kemper' on the end of the name, so I do not believe there is a connection. I am going to try to go through birth records of other relatives as suggested. Thank you for the replies. I need all the help I can get-like finding a needle in a haystack! --- Linda Lambert <ktlkate@extremezone.com> wrote: > I know of a family named Buehnekemper in central > Illinois.....would this be > who you are looking for? I am not related to this > family. > > Linda > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Jane Day" <fordellcastle@yahoo.com> > To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:54 PM > Subject: [Germans-STL] Buehne family/no consens? > > > > I have just subscribed to this newsletter a couple > > weeks ago, and hope someone can help me. My > ancestors > > from Germany were named Buehne. I am aware they > didn't > > have to get naturalized back then-1850s through > 1880s, > > but as I have gone through ISTG and found nothing > I > > believe they may have come without 'consens'. I > have > > searched for the Buehne name with merely a 'u' > with > > the umlaut rather than the 'ue' and come up empty. > We > > have relatives in Illinois, but no one can > determine > > exactly where in Germany they came from. Any > advice or > > links on how to find this? Also, when people came > > without'consens', what were the circumstances of > their > > voyages and how could they have slipped through > the > > ports? Were aliases used then? I know buehne means > > stage, so perhaps it was a false name? I have been > > successful with UK genealogy back to the 1500s. > > Germany is giving me fits, and I have promised Mom > and > > my aunt to find the answers. Thank you for any > help. > > Jane Henderson > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and > attachments are removed. A virus > that is distributed as an attachment will not reach > you through a RootsWeb > mailing list. For further information about Viruses, > Trojans, Worms etc., go > please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > > > ============================== > > Gain access to over two billion names including > the new Immigration > > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click > to learn more. > > > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > > > > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from this list click on > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > (list mode) or > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=unsubscribe > (digest mode) � Contact > mailto:GERMANS-STLOUIS-admin@rootsweb.com for list > related problems. For the GERMANS-STLOUIS-L > archives, go to > http://archiver.rootsweb.com/th/index/germans-stlouis. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the > new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click > to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

I know of a family named Buehnekemper in central Illinois.....would this be who you are looking for? I am not related to this family. Linda ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jane Day" <fordellcastle@yahoo.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 04, 2004 1:54 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Buehne family/no consens? > I have just subscribed to this newsletter a couple > weeks ago, and hope someone can help me. My ancestors > from Germany were named Buehne. I am aware they didn't > have to get naturalized back then-1850s through 1880s, > but as I have gone through ISTG and found nothing I > believe they may have come without 'consens'. I have > searched for the Buehne name with merely a 'u' with > the umlaut rather than the 'ue' and come up empty. We > have relatives in Illinois, but no one can determine > exactly where in Germany they came from. Any advice or > links on how to find this? Also, when people came > without'consens', what were the circumstances of their > voyages and how could they have slipped through the > ports? Were aliases used then? I know buehne means > stage, so perhaps it was a false name? I have been > successful with UK genealogy back to the 1500s. > Germany is giving me fits, and I have promised Mom and > my aunt to find the answers. Thank you for any help. > Jane Henderson > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > RootsWeb's mailing lists are filtered and attachments are removed. A virus that is distributed as an attachment will not reach you through a RootsWeb mailing list. For further information about Viruses, Trojans, Worms etc., go please to: http://helpdesk.rootsweb.com/virus.html. > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 >

I have just subscribed to this newsletter a couple weeks ago, and hope someone can help me. My ancestors from Germany were named Buehne. I am aware they didn't have to get naturalized back then-1850s through 1880s, but as I have gone through ISTG and found nothing I believe they may have come without 'consens'. I have searched for the Buehne name with merely a 'u' with the umlaut rather than the 'ue' and come up empty. We have relatives in Illinois, but no one can determine exactly where in Germany they came from. Any advice or links on how to find this? Also, when people came without'consens', what were the circumstances of their voyages and how could they have slipped through the ports? Were aliases used then? I know buehne means stage, so perhaps it was a false name? I have been successful with UK genealogy back to the 1500s. Germany is giving me fits, and I have promised Mom and my aunt to find the answers. Thank you for any help. Jane Henderson

I have some "KOCH's" in my family but I don't know whether or not we have a connection. My "Koch's" are in the St. Charles, Missouri area and over in Illinois. They are linked with Buechsenschuetz and Ferber families. I have a Fritz M. Koch - married Caroline Ferber in 1861. They belonged to St. Paul's (formerly St. John's Church in St. Charles) and had children: Fred, Emilie, Heinrich, Ida, Maria and Anna. There was a John Koch who was, apparently, the brother of Fritz. Fritz married Julia (maiden name unknown) abt 1870 and their children were: Hermann, Henry, Emma, Annie and Dora. I know that there are more Koch people in my line in Illinois but I don't have the information on them yet. If you are interested, I will see what I can get. The KOCH people are not my direct line which is why I don't have much on them as of yet, however I do not ONLY work on my direct lines - I just haven't gotten much on the Koch line yet. I do have another connection in the Illinois area, however, who has done more on the Koch line and will get that for you if you are interested. I would be very interested in any information you have on your Koch people - perhaps I can help to find the connection...if there is one. Marian

Sorry, I did not put the proper subject on my message. I did not look very carefully at the notes about St. Rose of Lima, but I have worked on records of the St. Rose of Lima parish in Perry County, Missouri. They were among those filmed by the LDS in 1993. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks

I did not look very carefully at the notes about St. Rose of Lima, but I have worked on records of the St. Rose of Lima parish in Perry County, Missouri. They were among those filmed by the LDS in 1993. Bob Doerr in the beautiful Missouri Ozarks ----- Original Message ----- From: <MAQUILL159@aol.com> To: <GERMANS-STLOUIS-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 03, 2004 7:48 PM Subject: [Germans-STL] Thank you > Laura thank you for all the wonderful sites you gave me to look for St. Rose > of Lima Church and Valhalla. I plan to visit both places and the sites were > very informative. > Jeff, thank you for the site on Valhalla also. > Michele St. Louis > > > ==== GERMANS-STLOUIS Mailing List ==== > GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L is a mailing list for anyone with a genealogical, cultural or historical interest in German traditions. Anything that concerns traditions, culture, folklore, heritage, or why not old recipes and daily life in ancient times in Germany or former German areas is an appropriate topic. To subscribe click on mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-L-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Mail Mode) or mailto:GERMAN-TRADITIONS-D-request@rootsweb.com?subject=subscribe (Digest Mode) > > ============================== > Gain access to over two billion names including the new Immigration > Collection with an Ancestry.com free trial. Click to learn more. > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=4930&sourceid=1237 > >

Laura thank you for all the wonderful sites you gave me to look for St. Rose of Lima Church and Valhalla. I plan to visit both places and the sites were very informative. Jeff, thank you for the site on Valhalla also. Michele St. Louis

I am seeking any information about my grandfather, John Otten (Johann Ottens). He was born in Germany on 12 May 1863 and emigrated in April 1880 aboard the "General Werder". In 1900, he married Tillie Rickert of Mascoutah, Illinois and they lived in various places in south St. Louis including 800 S. Broadway, 2453 DeKalb and 3545a Oregon. John died on 21 July 1933. Any information would be appreciated.